Best and Worst Offseason Moves... Cards Included

[azdad1978]

Simple fact: Dennis Green believes he can win with Josh McCown as his starting QB!

It is believed that McCown has a great deal of potential upside. Now granted, until developed, potential doesn't buy anything. But when you have a diamond-in-the-rough, you have got to cut and polish it to discover if you have a true gem. It may turn out to be just a rock... But if you just leave it on the shelf, you will never know!

If McCown fails then we will know, it's not like we haven't been there before. But, my question to MoC and other McCown doubters is how fair of a chance does McCown get??? If he performs poorly in the first two games will you start BOOing and calling for his replacement? Or do you trust the coaches to know who provides the team the best opportunity to win? If you don't allow McCown the time to become polished you'll never know if you are looking at a diamond or just a rock.

This team and this town gave Jake Plummer five years!!! It won't take that long for Green to know with Josh what he has got.

I believe that we Cardinals fans are in for a pleasant surprise!

 

[football karma]

Here is what absolutely kills me about such analysis –

In a year where the SB was a QB battle between a former 6th round draft choice and an undrafted free agent, in a year where a fairly recent former No.1 overall choice Tim Couch is going to be given away by the Browns, in a year where another highly picked QB- Akili Smith, will be out of football—

Writers STILL rather matter of factly assume the McCown cant play and Ben Rothlisberger can --

Why? Because McCown played at a small school and was a third round draft choice? Because Rothlisberger looked sooooooooo great in all those ESPN clips they saw coming up to the draft. I have wrote this before, but I am willing to bet $100 that the author of this piece hasn’t watched more than 10 minutes of film on Josh’s last three starts ( and most of that was in the form of the five second clip on the last play against the Vikes about a hundred times)

Dennis Green, who has watched a lot of Josh thus far, is really staking his credibility on naming Josh the starter. DG hasn’t come in here and talked about “getting better”, or making the playoffs in 2006. He has talked about winning right now, this season. If Josh is a disaster and the team goes 3-13, who will fully believe DG next year when he talks about winning?

I don’t know if Josh will be good or not, but I do know that the guy who is best qualified to decide that also has the most credibility to lose if he is wrong – I am okay with Josh, not because of what I think, but because DG thinks so.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Yu can't blame the skeptic, but I think it is funny to label it "the worst moves" when the alternative (Blake's experience) was a BOMB of an experiment last year. How could you claim Blake is just what the group needs?

I agree. And Blake DID throw to Johnson and Boldin already and they didn't seem to benefit from Blake's experience last year. Sure, Quan was amazing, but I don't think Blake deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

[vikesfan]

Here is what absolutely kills me about such analysis –

In a year where the SB was a QB battle between a former 6th round draft choice and an undrafted free agent, in a year where a fairly recent former No.1 overall choice Tim Couch is going to be given away by the Browns, in a year where another highly picked QB- Akili Smith, will be out of football—

Writers STILL rather matter of factly assume the McCown cant play and Ben Rothlisberger can --

Why? Because McCown played at a small school and was a third round draft choice? Because Rothlisberger looked sooooooooo great in all those ESPN clips they saw coming up to the draft. I have wrote this before, but I am willing to bet $100 that the author of this piece hasn’t watched more than 10 minutes of film on Josh’s last three starts ( and most of that was in the form of the five second clip on the last play against the Vikes about a hundred times)

Dennis Green, who has watched a lot of Josh thus far, is really staking his credibility on naming Josh the starter. DG hasn’t come in here and talked about “getting better”, or making the playoffs in 2006. He has talked about winning right now, this season. If Josh is a disaster and the team goes 3-13, who will fully believe DG next year when he talks about winning?

I don’t know if Josh will be good or not, but I do know that the guy who is best qualified to decide that also has the most credibility to lose if he is wrong – I am okay with Josh, not because of what I think, but because DG thinks so.

I mean the team has invested a few years in him and he has shown enough to warrant a shot in DG's view. DG will not stick with him if he can't do it. DG will not stick with guys who don't peform.

As for credibility etc DG is here for 4 years at least he has time to get the QB in who can do it. If not Josh maybe Navarre or maybe King or maybe one of the QBs who is available for drafting or as a FA next year. The Josh decision doesn't set this team on an irrevocable course like drafting a number one pick would.

And as for saying the playoffs are the goal. That is what he should say. I mean if a 4 win team misses the playoffs this year or even next year that is not going to shock anyone or ruin his credibility. You have to set goals.
The alternative is to preach the 3 year plan and we just need to get a few more wins etc theory and that lets players off the hook. If your team is not a playoff team you need to set that as your goal and once you have a playoff team then the SB is the goal. Every year in MIN our goal was the SB and we made the playoffs 8 out of 9 years. At least he at the same time is not saying the team is there yet he is looking at things realistically.
You have to expect performance and production if they don't come about then changes will be made. Players coaches etc and he knows and expects to be gone if this team is not a contender by his 4th year.

 

[Pariah]

DG will not stick with guys who don't peform.

Heck, DG doesn't even stick with QBs that DO perfom! (Cunningham, George, Johnson, etc...)

 

[vikesfan]

Heck, DG doesn't even stick with QBs that DO perfom! (Cunningham, George, Johnson, etc...)

Well this is where my Vikes knowledge comes in handy.
Cunningham lost it he no longer could do the job and after he benched him he never got it back anywhere else either. George as we all know was a team cancer DG used him because Cunningham suddenly lost it. He got a great year out of George maybe his best ever, but George was still doing team cancer things (blaming other players, freaking out at coaches, panicking on the field, and not executing the plays properly) and he has done nothing since DG released him. As for Johnson he was injury prone and wanted to start and DG had the NFL MVP as his QB so he got a first round pick for him iirc a #11 and that became Culpepper.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

McCown is our QB! He has talent. Will he progressively get better? No doubt!
I like Parsons also, I think he'd be a good #2. Same attitude as Josh, good gun, needs some serious time, takes things too lightly because they've been given to him.
No matter what anyone thinks of our QB situation, imho, we had a good offseason.

first, what makes you think it is "undoubtable" that josh will get better? i'm not naysaying here, just trying to get peeps to back up their words w/ facts. we've already seen that josh's history was that he had to take a step down in competition (in college) to get better. that's a forbodding sign.

second, parsons stinks. i got this first-hand from a former NAU teammate of his this past weekend. from the teammate's mouth, "he's lazy, he doesn't really care, and he's got a huge ego and bad attitude." the teammate admitted that he's got a huge cannon and good athleticism but that he just doesn't have the head or heart. sorry to crush all you parson-lovers.

 

[MastersofCombat]

Vikesfan your loyalness to DG is going to cost you!

Im not even going to copy and paste the things you say cause you still dont get it and I wish you would stop replying.

Your reply to why was Steve Young brought to SF ( i explained and all you said is he sucks)

I explained why so many first rounders seem to always get the chance to start because of money!

Your RESPONSE: Oh so being drafted number 1 means you can automatically be a starter. Culpepper never starts if Marino comes up to MIN.

^^ Again, your not paying attention!!

Stop typing,


I am only saying for the last time " DG named him the starter without looking at what was available or personally seeing him in DGs system, if he can beat out a retreaded King,the rookie Navarre, or if he gave exhaustive looks at Kerry COllins, Tim Couch, Kurt Warner, John Kitna." So many avenues for all of us fans to maybe draw some hope, when a lot of us were never sold on him as being a playoff QB, (nor are my Vegas pals..lol) Guess what they judge talent also, THey admit if DG is right about MCCown the Cards will/could go to the playoffs,(due to the bad division we are in this year) if he is wrong like they think the Cards will start 2-3 at best 1-4 more than likely.


Card fans for once Im glad we are not in the NFL east...

 

[joeshmo]

Vikesfan your loyalness to DG is going to cost you!

Im not even going to copy and paste the things you say cause you still dont get it and I wish you would stop replying.

Your reply to why was Steve Young brought to SF ( i explained and all you said is he sucks)

I explained why so many first rounders seem to always get the chance to start because of money!

Your RESPONSE: Oh so being drafted number 1 means you can automatically be a starter. Culpepper never starts if Marino comes up to MIN.

^^ Again, your not paying attention!!

Stop typing,


I am only saying for the last time " DG named him the starter without looking at what was available or personally seeing him in DGs system, if he can beat out a retreaded King,the rookie Navarre, or if he gave exhaustive looks at Kerry COllins, Tim Couch, Kurt Warner, John Kitna." So many avenues for all of us fans to maybe draw some hope, when a lot of us were never sold on him as being a playoff QB, (nor are my Vegas pals..lol) Guess what they judge talent also, THey admit if DG is right about MCCown the Cards will/could go to the playoffs,(due to the bad division we are in this year) if he is wrong like they think the Cards will start 2-3 at best 1-4 more than likely.


Card fans for once Im glad we are not in the NFL east...

Well you did have a debate going until you decided to use Vegas Odds makers to try and prove your point.

 

[vikesfan]

Vikesfan your loyalness to DG is going to cost you!

Im not even going to copy and paste the things you say cause you still dont get it and I wish you would stop replying.

Your reply to why was Steve Young brought to SF ( i explained and all you said is he sucks)

I explained why so many first rounders seem to always get the chance to start because of money!

Your RESPONSE: Oh so being drafted number 1 means you can automatically be a starter. Culpepper never starts if Marino comes up to MIN.

^^ Again, your not paying attention!!

Stop typing,


I am only saying for the last time " DG named him the starter without looking at what was available or personally seeing him in DGs system, if he can beat out a retreaded King,the rookie Navarre, or if he gave exhaustive looks at Kerry COllins, Tim Couch, Kurt Warner, John Kitna." So many avenues for all of us fans to maybe draw some hope, when a lot of us were never sold on him as being a playoff QB, (nor are my Vegas pals..lol) Guess what they judge talent also, THey admit if DG is right about MCCown the Cards will/could go to the playoffs,(due to the bad division we are in this year) if he is wrong like they think the Cards will start 2-3 at best 1-4 more than likely.


Card fans for once Im glad we are not in the NFL east...

Dude I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. Playoff QB? Playoff team? DG likes some players he named the players he likes. He likes Josh. He moved Big to LG etc. DG is making moves on all levels of this team. Some might be right some might be wrong we will find out. If some are wrong he will try and correct them. It's not brain surgery Josh showed enough for DG's satisfaction just like Fitz did. DG has a plan and he is carrying it out. I get it if you were a GM you would go with a veteran QB I understand that DG is not going that route at least this year.

 

[CardLogic]

first, what makes you think it is "undoubtable" that josh will get better? i'm not naysaying here, just trying to get peeps to back up their words w/ facts. we've already seen that josh's history was that he had to take a step down in competition (in college) to get better. that's a forbodding sign.

second, parsons stinks. i got this first-hand from a former NAU teammate of his this past weekend. from the teammate's mouth, "he's lazy, he doesn't really care, and he's got a huge ego and bad attitude." the teammate admitted that he's got a huge cannon and good athleticism but that he just doesn't have the head or heart. sorry to crush all you parson-lovers.

I know I have read on this board and elsewhere about McCown's decision to leave SMU. They ran an option offense! How many option QB's make it in the NFL. Additonally, it's fairly logical that his (NFL) skill set was not flourishing in a system that doesn't focus upon the passing game. Lastly, Josh has stated that he went to a Division II school in order to not lose a year (that speaks to his confidence, not inadequacies).

Ouchie's second point is what further differentiates McCown from Parsons.
In their shared rookie year, a person could watch them and rationalize that they both had good size, had a good arm, and good athleticism. Now this is the first time I have read "inside" information regarding Parsons lack of head and heart. We have read about Josh being the opposite; doing extra film study, and being a leader with huddle presence.

Josh and Preston may have been close in rookie camp. McCown has stepped up his game, Parson's; from what I see; hasn't!

 

[kerouac9]

second, parsons stinks. i got this first-hand from a former NAU teammate of his this past weekend. from the teammate's mouth, "he's lazy, he doesn't really care, and he's got a huge ego and bad attitude." the teammate admitted that he's got a huge cannon and good athleticism but that he just doesn't have the head or heart. sorry to crush all you parson-lovers.

Don't let Walter hear you say that. You'll call down the thunder.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Personally I think McCown stinks. If not for 1 miracle pass, we would have a new QB this year.

I doubt he finishes the year as the starter.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Dude I have no idea what you are talking about anymore.

Now you know how we feel.

 

[CardLogic]

Personally I think McCown stinks. If not for 1 miracle pass, we would have a new QB this year.

I doubt he finishes the year as the starter.

Right, that's what Dennis Green based his decision upon... one Pass!

 

[joeshmo]

Personally I think McCown stinks. If not for 1 miracle pass, we would have a new QB this year.

I doubt he finishes the year as the starter.

No, we would still have Fitz. Green was going to pick him regardless.

 

[azdad1978]

Now you know how we feel.

All the time

 

[Chris_Sanders]

No, we would still have Fitz. Green was going to pick him regardless.

I didn't say we wouldn't draft Fitz, I said we would have a different QB.

And Cardlogic is a perfect name for you Cardlogic.

Cardlogic is...well we could upgrade our position or bring in some real competition...

But instead we will bring in a scrub, draft a QB in the 7th round, and pin our hopes on a guy who just started a handful of games and didn't perform particularly well in those starts.

It's Jake the Fake all over again.

 

[CardLogic]

That's funny Chris, because I specifically chose that name after reading (on this board or the one preceding ) some of that convoluted logic that is often required to remain a Cardinals fan!

What you keep missing is that I believe that Josh will be an improvement at QB over what the Cardinals have had since.... well, a long time.

It is fairly certain that Josh will not be given more than this year to prove if he can be the guy or not.

If he performs well I will encourage you to come on back for your meal of crow!

 

[joeshmo]

I didn't say we wouldn't draft Fitz, I said we would have a different QB.

So one pass and one pass alone made Green a beleiver in McCown?

You may have a point on not having faith in McCown but your observation that one pass made Green believe that he is a starter is the most silly argument about this topic I have ever heard.

Green said that McCown was the starter becuase he watched hours upon hours of film on him and made a judgement. He didnt just watch 5 seconds of film on the guy.

Even if McCown did make that throw he would still be the starter in Greens mind.

All of your other points can have some relavance and I have my concerns as well but this, "If not for 1 miracle pass, we would have a new QB this year" stuff just does not hold and water.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If he performs well I will encourage you to come on back for your meal of crow!

y'know, in the past year i've had to eat some crow (getting our draft picks in w/ short holdouts, resigning/extending/restructuring some players mid-season, etc.), but the funny (or really not so funny when you think about it) thing about all that crow? we still sucked. how can i, as a darksider, can i be burping up black feathers and we still sucked so bad? i hope we don't have more crow feasts resulting in 4 win seasons . . . it's just not a healthy diet/exercise regime . . .

 

[CardLogic]

Ouchie, I guess you just haven't made the right arguments!

Seriously though, the Cardinals really did start conducting business differently last year. This year they went out and got an actual head coach; many believe the best available coach.

It's difficult at this point to say if the Cardinals will have a much improved record over the last couple of years, but they will be more competitive!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Ouchie, I guess you just haven't made the right arguments!

Seriously though, the Cardinals really did start conducting business differently last year. This year they went out and got an actual head coach; many believe the best available coach.

It's difficult at this point to say if the Cardinals will have a much improved record over the last couple of years, but they will be more competitive!

And thats how I feel too ouchie. With the way the franchise has been doing things over the past 12+ months, we're going make the playoffs once or twice this decade at least.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If not for one miracle pass completion...on a day when McCown was awful...we would all be screaming for a new QB.

Even McCown himself has said "That pass saved my job"

Now would Denny Green have kept McCown? No idea. Green has said more than once that McCown beating the Vikings showed that he can win in the NFL.

So yes that one miracle pass has greatly effected McCown's career.

 

[vikesfan]

If not for one miracle pass completion...on a day when McCown was awful...we would all be screaming for a new QB.

Even McCown himself has said "That pass saved my job"

Now would Denny Green have kept McCown? No idea. Green has said more than once that McCown beating the Vikings showed that he can win in the NFL.

So yes that one miracle pass has greatly effected McCown's career.

DG breaksdown players on film. He broke down Culpepper for hours before deciding to take him. He broke down Blake and Josh. Come on man get real DG is a professional. He broke down all the film on Josh. Don't read too much into statements like that.