Best in the west

[dreamcastrocks]

HAHAHAHAHA no, you dont.
Fitz>anyone you have
Breaston>anyone you have
Beanie and Gore are a tossup
Hightower>your number 2
Leinart/Anderson>anyone you have

Not fair. Gore is much better than Beanie. However, Beanie + Hightower > Gore + Coffee.

 

[Tyler]

Not fair. Gore is much better than Beanie. However, Beanie + Hightower > Gore + Coffee.

I based that off Gore having so many miles on the wheels. Beanie is fresh and ready to kill, Gore is ready to move to Naples. I rescind, Gore is currently the better back but Beanie has a brighter upside than Gore did coming out of college.

I CANT WAIT FOR THE SEASON!!!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I based that off Gore having so many miles on the wheels. Beanie is fresh and ready to kill, Gore is ready to move to Naples. I rescind, Gore is currently the better back but Beanie has a brighter upside than Gore did coming out of college.

I CANT WAIT FOR THE SEASON!!!!

Gore is better than Beanie now. If you asked me which back I'd rather have long term though, it would be Beanie.

 

[Tyler]

Gore is better than Beanie now. If you asked me which back I'd rather have long term though, it would be Gore.

Interesting thought, I am curious as to why.

They are roughly the same size 6'1 228 to Gores 5'9 217.
Beanie ran a 4.5 at the combine to Gores 4.66.
Beanie has the BEST stiffarm in the histroy of stiffarms.
Beanie is entering his second season hopefully with 9 more to go, Gore is entering his 6th with maybe 4 more to go.


EDIT: just saw you fixed it

 

[49erTroll]

Not fair. Gore is much better than Beanie. However, Beanie + Hightower > Gore + Coffee.

Thank you

Um crabtree?

 

[Tyler]

Thank you

Um crabtree?

He played in 11 games. When he makes a probowl come talk to me about him.

 

[TJ]

Thank you

Um crabtree?

What about Crabtree?? He's a wideout and has suspect work ethic. He may be talented but you better hope your boy is doing more than hazing freshman at Texas Tech this offseason

 

[Mulli]

Anyone remember last year at this time when we had to learn how Josh Morgan was one of the best WR in the league?

 

[Pariah]

Beanie has a brighter upside than Gore did coming out of college.

Gore was ALL upside coming out of college because of his injuries. Not surprisingly, t's injuries that have kept him from fully realizing that upside, too. Gore is the better talent, but his body doesn't take the punishment well.

At this point in their careers I'd take Wells for his long-term value as compared to Gore. I think lots of NFL teams might, too, based on Gore's injury history.

JMHO

 

[49erTroll]

Interesting thought, I am curious as to why.

They are roughly the same size 6'1 228 to Gores 5'9 217.
Beanie ran a 4.5 at the combine to Gores 4.66.
Beanie has the BEST stiffarm in the histroy of stiffarms.
Beanie is entering his second season hopefully with 9 more to go, Gore is entering his 6th with maybe 4 more to go.


EDIT: just saw you fixed it

This valid and to be perfectly honest If both came on the market today then I would take beanie.

Two reasons-One he is youger and talented however its to early to say he's more talented being that gore has done very well with the WORST offensive line in the league that last 3 years and he increased his yards each year. Additionally you have had a better passing team complemented by the best wr duo in the league. This leads to safeties not stepping up and putting 8 in the box. (like they do to us) And like you did to us last year in the opening game because we are such a one deminsional team. And furthermore we never got to run as much as we would have liked to because by the forth quater we had to usually stage a comeback which essentially cancles out the running game.

That all being said- Beanie has less wear and tear more speed and he wouldnt require the fat contract Gore would.

 

[49erTroll]

What about Crabtree?? He's a wideout and has suspect work ethic. He may be talented but you better hope your boy is doing more than hazing freshman at Texas Tech this offseason

Where did you get the work ethic idea? Ive not heard that before.

 

[wilycoyote24]

Not true. The season is 17 weeks long. They may have played better against us. I admit they are a tough team but we one two more games and played the same amount. 10-6 vs. 8-8. Enough said.

Enough said? Really? Well, I guess we can put an end to all Cardinals discussion and close down this site, because enough has now been said!

There is an implied "they are better when playing us" in my statement. The Cardinals may very well be better at making lemonade, but that wasn't the subject of my post.

They did not dominate us, we turned the ball over a ridiculous amount of times and played terribly and without key players in the first game (which was still close). We were in the post season and won 11 games period that makes us clearly better than a team that won 8 and missed the playoffs...no matter what kind of math you use. Get serious the Niners have proven NOTHING they haven't even had a winning record in years, now we are supposed to believe that since we lost Warner that they are going to dominate with Alex Smith at the helm....what a joke!

I would argue that we turned the ball over BECAUSE they dominated us. Thinking back, Timmy didn't just drop the ball on that first drive (I think it was our first drive), he had it knocked out.

Teams always play games without key players. That's the NFL. The health of a team's players affects how good that team is.

The 49ers aren't very good due to a lack of a QB. But, we aren't either due to a lack of a QB. We have an unproven beer bonger at QB. He may be great, but up until now, he hasn't been. I don't remember the last time Matty didn't over throw a receiver by 10 feet or so. Let's just sign 7 1/2 foot WRs and we'll be fine, I guess.

I would predict a 1-1 record against them this year. Neither team will dominate the other.

Totally flawed logic.

We played a very similar schedule as the Niners and won 3 more games. Winning head to head means nothing; we played them early in the season when we were in a funk and later in the year we had our annual turnover fest.

Sure they won, but 8 times out of ten, we win against the Niners last season.

Who cares if we were in a funk. Perhaps that funk was because they were better than us. Perhaps our turnover fests are the results of our annual playing a team that is much better than us.

The NFL cares about head-to-head record as evidenced by its use as a tie breaker.

Saying that we win 8 out of ten times against the 49ers is entirely bias and unfounded. It didn't happen, so there is no reason to believe that. I personally think that all 180 lbs of me could win a fight againt Dockett 8 out of ten times, but having never won a fight against him, I would say that my opinion is irrelevant here.

 

[Mulli]

Enough said? Really? Well, I guess we can put an end to all Cardinals discussion and close down this site, because enough has now been said!

There is an implied "they are better when playing us" in my statement. The Cardinals may very well be better at making lemonade, but that wasn't the subject of my post.



I would argue that we turned the ball over BECAUSE they dominated us. Thinking back, Timmy didn't just drop the ball on that first drive (I think it was our first drive), he had it knocked out.

Teams always play games without key players. That's the NFL. The health of a team's players affects how good that team is.

The 49ers aren't very good due to a lack of a QB. But, we aren't either due to a lack of a QB. We have an unproven beer bonger at QB. He may be great, but up until now, he hasn't been. I don't remember the last time Matty didn't over thrown a receiver by 10 feet or so. Let's just sign 7 1/2 foot WRs and we'll be fine, I guess.

I would predict a 1-1 record against them this year. Neither team will dominate the other.



Who cares if we were in a funk. Perhaps that funk was because they were better than us. Perhaps our turnover fests are the results of our annual playing a team that is much better than us.

The NFL cares about head-to-head record as evidenced by its use as a tie breaker.

Saying that we win 8 out of ten times against the 49ers is entirely bias and unfounded. It didn't happen, so there is no reason to believe that. I personally think that all 180 lbs of me could win a fight againt Dockett 8 out of ten times, but having never won a fight against him, I would say that my opinion is irrelevant here.

The NFL doesn't care about head to head if you are in the same division, and you have a better win/loss record than the other teams in your division.

 

[Pariah]

I don't remember the last time Matty didn't over throw a receiver by 10 feet or so.

You should see a doctor. sounds like you might have some head trauma.

 

[Doug]

I personally don't think the 9ers with Old Jimmy Raye as offensive coordinator can create a diverse enough offense to make the playoffs.

I think we saw the best defense of this 9ers team LAST YEAR.One more year of age in specific area's of last years defense will begin to show in the older vets.I don't see with any additions to this point the strongest part of the team getting any better than they have already shown,if not weaker in the defensive backfield.

Jimmy Raye is an older highly respected friend of Mike Singletary.I personally think he is'nt capable of running a more diverse or unpredictable offense.He is the 8th OC in a very,very short time and by starting this season he will have the longest tenure of any of those 8 OC's.Martz was'nt even there as long as Raye will have been.Its totally Singletary's stamp on the team with the offense he personally believes can win the NFL.

I think the style is out dated as Ditka was in his last stint in New Orleans.Gore will be run into the ground eventually.Whether they think they can start one or both rookie OL from game one will be very interesting to the point of desperate.If both of their top two picks don't GET IT from the start they will be hard pressed to put their best on the field for a major part of the season.

They brought in another pounder at RB if Gore wears out or goes down but lack a change of pace back as Coffee is just a weaker Gore.The UDFA Blount moved on and won't be the 4th version of Gore on the team.

I think Mays will struggle with talented WR's all season.Coverage is his weakest area NFL recievers will expose him early and often.Will Ginn learn to finally catch as we had a very high draft pick WR that never learned to catch and finally was just allowed to move on also.What good is the speed if you can't pull it in?Maybe just contribute on returns.

This is ALL opinion and my prediction we've seen the best the whiners will be in the West last year.The playing as a team was the biggest compliment you can give Singletary.T.E. Davis playing like he was expected to play when he was drafted as a physical freak and finally growing up is also another credit to Coach Singletary.

I personally think the Singletary approach will finally wear thin with the older vets and we'll see a breakdown with no more than 8 wins again.

I see the veteran blood influence on the CARDINALS offensive line and the ability to finally have a running game will give Matt the ability to be great at his playaction and use all of our weapons & also bring back the deep ball we missed so much last year. Our defense will struggle early till the young guns start to pick up the system and can add to it.

Players recovering from injury will be a major KEY.Cody Brown and his wrist,Watson & his knee,DRC and his leg and any other nagging injury,Schofield and his knee for this year or next.Duece getting back mentally and in shape to pick up what he can from Alan while he can.Hadnot & Sendlein having a competition at center to get our best 5 on the field this year from a talented group,seeing who is the most motivated to improve and get nasty.Breastons knee and his ability to have more confidence and be a team leader at #2 and push for his second 1000 yard season as Fitz will continue to draw the double.Last but not least CAN Hayes give us more than 4 full healthy games out of the first 16?

Peiceing together a group of cornerbacks who we can have faith in depth and not having to play more safeties at onetime than CB's due to depth and talent.Keeping a hard hitting Ware healthy all year as it always shows when he is'nt in the mix.

Paying the right people during this season so we don't have another flock of leaders excited to jump ship next offseason. Please don't kill me.

"THE NFC WEST GOES THROUGH THE NEST"

 

[Brighteyes]

It's "opposite of a real marriage situation" week

He's ALSO a mod.

Can they take my money?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I think a proper distinction should be made here: The Niners MATCHED UP WELL vs. the Cardinals, they were not BETTER.

10-6 > 8-8

Using the other logic would mean Raiders were a better team than: PHI, CIN, PIT, DEN...

 

[wilycoyote24]

I think a proper distinction should be made here: The Niners MATCHED UP WELL vs. the Cardinals, they were not BETTER.

10-6 > 8-8

Using the other logic would mean Raiders were a better team than: PHI, CIN, PIT, DEN...

Let's say we have a rock, paper, scissor league. Each thing plays the other two 100 times.

Each finishes the season 100-100.

You're asked which was better, rock or paper. Everyone on this board would say they were equal since they were both 100-100? No one would recognize the validity of the fact that rock was 0-100 against paper?

If the Cards and 49ers had gone 100-100, with the 49ers winning 100 against us, you all would still say we were equal teams?

Who was a better team isn't really settled by overall record. We may have had an easier schedule. We may have seen teams underestimate us and not give us their best efforts. I'm not saying this is the case, but it isn't only about overall record.

 

[49erTroll]

I first gotta say that you definetly know the niners very well and so far this is the most accurate, complete assement of my team Ive heard. It vaguley reminded me of talking forty niner football with my pessimistic friends. Kudos for the knowledge of my team. BUT now I must dissect it.I personally don't think the 9ers with Old Jimmy Raye as offensive coordinator can create a diverse enough offense to make the playoffs.

I think we saw the best defense of this 9ers team LAST YEAR.One more year of age in specific area's of last years defense will begin to show in the older vets.I don't see with any additions to this point the strongest part of the team getting any better than they have already shown,if not weaker in the defensive backfield. ( This was entirely my concern when didnt go after any players in free agency or the draft. Franklin-old, Smith-old, Clements-old, Spikes-Old, Lewis-old. If we dont draft all defense next year it will be very dumb.)

Jimmy Raye is an older highly respected friend of Mike Singletary.I personally think he is'nt capable of running a more diverse or unpredictable offense.He is the 8th OC in a very,very short time and by starting this season he will have the longest tenure of any of those 8 OC's.Martz was'nt even there as long as Raye will have been.Its totally Singletary's stamp on the team with the offense he personally believes can win the NFL. (agreed...now stop being so reasonable)

I think the style is out dated as Ditka was in his last stint in New Orleans.Gore will be run into the ground eventually.Whether they think they can start one or both rookie OL from game one will be very interesting to the point of desperate.If both of their top two picks don't GET IT from the start they will be hard pressed to put their best on the field for a major part of the season. ( In rayes defense there is a saying known through out the NFL" You pass to score, You run to win")

They brought in another pounder at RB if Gore wears out or goes down but lack a change of pace back as Coffee is just a weaker Gore.The UDFA Blount moved on and won't be the 4th version of Gore on the team.

I think Mays will struggle with talented WR's all season.Coverage is his weakest area NFL recievers will expose him early and often.(remember he was a top 10 pick if he comes out last year and you cant teach speed. So while I agree he will struggle early I think he will be a solid in the box safety with great range)Will Ginn learn to finally catch(no! If he hasnt done it by now he never will!) as we had a very high draft pick WR that never learned to catch and finally was just allowed to move on also.What good is the speed if you can't pull it in?Maybe just contribute on returns.( Thats why we got him,, outside of special teams he wont sniff the field)

This is ALL opinion and my prediction we've seen the best the whiners will be in the West last year.The playing as a team was the biggest compliment you can give Singletary.T.E. Davis playing like he was expected to play when he was drafted as a physical freak and finally growing up is also another credit to Coach Singletary.(We much like your selves have alot riding on unproven players, but unlike you who has a more proven line but relies soley on the production of our Q.B. We rely on him and Iupati and Davis, so we need more things to go right...I dont like this many intangibles)

I personally think the Singletary approach will finally wear thin with the older vets and we'll see a breakdown with no more than 8 wins again.( Your so wrong, Singeltary is a god!)....not really but hes not what you claim either.

I see the veteran blood influence on the CARDINALS offensive line and the ability to finally have a running game will give Matt the ability to be great(assume much?) at his playaction and use all of our weapons & also bring back the deep ball we missed so much last year. Our defense will struggle early till the young guns start to pick up the system and can add to it.

Players recovering from injury will be a major KEY.Cody Brown and his wrist,Watson & his knee,DRC and his leg and any other nagging injury,Schofield and his knee for this year or next.Duece getting back mentally and in shape to pick up what he can from Alan while he can.Hadnot & Sendlein having a competition at center to get our best 5 on the field this year from a talented group,seeing who is the most motivated to improve and get nasty.Breastons knee and his ability to have more confidence and be a team leader at #2 and push for his second 1000 yard season as Fitz will continue to draw the double.Last but not least CAN Hayes give us more than 4 full healthy games out of the first 16?

Peiceing together a group of cornerbacks who we can have faith in depth and not having to play more safeties at onetime than CB's due to depth and talent.Keeping a hard hitting Ware healthy all year as it always shows when he is'nt in the mix.( Lots of if ands or maybes but If just half of these things go right then I feel that the biggest showdown will come straight to week 17) EXCITED!!!!

Paying the right people during this season so we don't have another flock of leaders excited to jump ship next offseason. Please don't kill me.

"THE NFC WEST GOES THROUGH THE NEST"

PLEASE DONT KILL ME!!

 

[CardLogic]

remember he was a top 10 pick if he comes out last year and you cant teach speed. So while I agree he will struggle early I think he will be a solid in the box safety with great range

It's also difficult to teach football awareness; which Mays lacks (5 INT in 4 years, 2 in the last 3 years, 1 FF in four years).

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Let's say we have a rock, paper, scissor league. Each thing plays the other two 100 times.

Each finishes the season 100-100.

You're asked which was better, rock or paper. Everyone on this board would say they were equal since they were both 100-100? No one would recognize the validity of the fact that rock was 0-100 against paper?

If the Cards and 49ers had gone 100-100, with the 49ers winning 100 against us, you all would still say we were equal teams?

Who was a better team isn't really settled by overall record. We may have had an easier schedule. We may have seen teams underestimate us and not give us their best efforts. I'm not saying this is the case, but it isn't only about overall record.

But that is now how the NFL works, so the comparison is not equal...

Though not exactly, I'd say a round robin tounament is more comparable : Teams are judged head to head performances and vs. the other competitors to determine who is the better team with the better overall record.

So yes, the Cardinals were a better team last season.

 

[Pariah]

If the Cards and 49ers had gone 100-100, with the 49ers winning 100 against us, you all would still say we were equal teams?

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be christmas.

If the Cards and the Niners had the same regular season records, then the niners would have been the champs. Fact is, they didn't...and weren't. The system works.

Who was a better team isn't really settled by overall record. We may have had an easier schedule. ... I'm not saying this is the case, but it isn't only about overall record.

Within a division (as is the case with the niners and the cards) it most certainly is. The schedules are nearly identical.

We may have seen teams underestimate us and not give us their best efforts.

If a team was going to be underestimated, it would have been the niners. The Cards were a quarter inch from winning the superbowl the previous year.

 

[CardLogic]

Cardinals are the defending NFC Division Champions.

 

[wilycoyote24]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be christmas.

If the Cards and the Niners had the same regular season records, then the niners would have been the champs. Fact is, they didn't...and weren't. The system works.
Within a division (as is the case with the niners and the cards) it most certainly is. The schedules are nearly identical.

If a team was going to be underestimated, it would have been the niners. The Cards were a quarter inch from winning the superbowl the previous year.

I am not using my metaphor to argue the specific case of the Cards and 49ers. I am only trying to say that overall record isn't an absolute way of determining the "best" team. I guess I'm strange and see this differently from everyone on this board and so will drop this subject.

But, I'm sure if the tables were turned, that many on this board would argue that the Cards were the better team since they beat the 49ers both times, even though we didn't have the better record. It's all irrelevant as all that matters is who is the better team THIS season.

 

[Tyler]

I am not using my metaphor to argue the specific case of the Cards and 49ers. I am only trying to say that overall record isn't an absolute way of determining the "best" team. I guess I'm strange and see this differently from everyone on this board and so will drop this subject.

But, I'm sure if the tables were turned, that many on this board would argue that the Cards were the better team since they beat the 49ers both times, even though we didn't have the better record. It's all irrelevant as all that matters is who is the better team THIS season.

I just dont understand how the better team didnt make the playoffs. I mean if they were better, shouldnt they have hosted GB in the first round?