Better QB in 5 Years: Murray, Burrow, Tua, Herbert or Trevor Lawrence

[Chris_Sanders]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2156492/kyler-murray-is-the-toughest-quarterback-to-sack-in-the-nfl/

According to NFL Next Gen stats, Murray is the hardest QB to sack by a good margin.

It's almost like something predicted this

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm watching Minnesota vs. Iowa.

Nate Stanley of Iowa has a canon for an arm.

 

[Solar7]

What are ignoring or just not seeing is that Murray is the biggest reason the Cardinals are more competitive this year. If another QB was here (cough Rosen), I wouldnt doubt if the Cardinals were 0 fer.

Schedules change. Teams change. Last year the Cardinals swept the Niners. This year they likely get swept. Murray was the reason they were even in the game against the Niners.

And this isn't the same as the Plummer problem, you know...Jake Plummer would put the team in a hole and then save the day....Murray isnt putting the team in a hole. He has been historically good at not turning the ball over. 5 TOs is magnificent. His TD numbers could be higher, but the lack of TOs is good football especially considering his historically high pass attempts.

I bet you Murray ends the season with around 20-25 total TDs...you want to take that bet?

Murray is undoubtedly the most promising young QB the Cardinals have ever had in their time in Arizona. He's good. Very good. Is he good enough to turn the tides for the team? Is he good enough to work through some mechanical errors and a lack of talent around him? That I don't know.

Nothing to complain about with the lack of turnovers. I don't even have anything to complain about with the lower amount of touchdowns, besides that I don't think we have the coaching or talent around him, and we're going to buy a buffoon of a GM and glorified offensive coordinator some years of mediocrity on Kyler's back now.

 

[SoonerLou]

Could have swore Hurts ran in the 4.4's his soph year at Bama.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Now this is interesting... @GatorAZ

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I agree with one of the comments about a lack of awareness from Kyler or at least not on Lamar's level. While he's not 4.2 speed. At times I do see that 4.3 speed..he's just not a confident runner yet. Lamar is always in top gear.

Kyler seems like he expects to not run as fast and blow by people. Will be interesting to follow next year when maybe he's comfortable.

Could be the weight also. That extra 10 to 15 pounds can really slow down some people.

 

[juza76]

Caught by defensive ends??
Did they watch him or not?
He outrun them always, they can get him only finding the right angle
Not the runner Lamar is, he rarely goes full speed cause looks too worry about getting tackled, but I saw a couple of run where he was caught barely by a defensive back, for example the 24 yard run when he was tackled at 1 yard line
Isn't a instinctive runner I'm agree

 

[Phrazbit]

Could have swore Hurts ran in the 4.4's his soph year at Bama.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Now this is interesting... @GatorAZ

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I agree with one of the comments about a lack of awareness from Kyler or at least not on Lamar's level. While he's not 4.2 speed. At times I do see that 4.3 speed..he's just not a confident runner yet. Lamar is always in top gear.

Kyler seems like he expects to not run as fast and blow by people. Will be interesting to follow next year when maybe he's comfortable.

Could be the weight also. That extra 10 to 15 pounds can really slow down some people.

I think a lot of it is that Jackson is inaccurate. As a passer... he simply is average at best. While Kyler has an amazing arm, and he seems to use his mobility to buy time for throws.

 

[HoodieBets]

I think a lot of it is that Jackson is inaccurate. As a passer... he simply is average at best. While Kyler has an amazing arm, and he seems to use his mobility to buy time for throws.

Stats this year prove a little different. Jackson has a higher completion percentage than Murray and more TDs. They also have the same amount of INT at 5. The only stat kyler outdoes Lamar is yards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SoonerLou]

Caught by defensive ends??
Did they watch him or not?
He outrun them always, they can get him only finding the right angle
Not the runner Lamar is, he rarely goes full speed cause looks too worry about getting tackled, but I saw a couple of run where he was caught barely by a defensive back, for example the 24 yard run when he was tackled at 1 yard line
Isn't a instinctive runner I'm agree

It was a penalty but he was caught by Dee Ford.

 

[juza76]

It was a penalty but he was caught by Dee Ford.

Dee Ford is 4'50 guy, then a single run has many variables, if u hesitate during the run cause u look downfield u don't go full speed and then u can get caught by someone slower
*I saw the clip now, he tried to outrun him, and ford is clearly slower then him, just got the right angle and grabbed his jersey
We saw some carries of him and if he goes full speed he is fast enough with amazing accelatation

 

[bojack]

It's all going to depend a lot on what team they end up on. Different styles, schemes and talent from team to team mean one QB excels in the same set of circumstances while failing in another.

None are without some faults though. Tua doesn't look as great against good competition. Lawrence gets happy feet sometimes but I would put him at the top of the list of those listed.

I think one QB that could be better than a few if not all at some point is Fields. That guy is putting stupid numbers. He's got the best TD to INT ratio in like 15 or 20 years. Only one int and I think he is up to like 33 TDs. His stats are crazy good for usually only playing the first 2 or 3 quarters of each game. Fields actually reminds me KM a bit but without the propensity to scramble and of course is closer to a traditional QB size. Will be interesting to see how he does down the stretch in the bigger games and next year.

 

[Solar7]

Com'on, Solar. You're great. We love you. You take a lot of heat (deserved or not) on here, but keep on ticking.

I don't know what to think? KM has come here, and has played, pretty much, turn over free (not completely, but pretty good), set some rookie records on the way, and has mostly put a lot of excitement back into our Cardinals watching. The only thing, I think, that is missing, are a whole bunch of wins.

Of any qb in the league, who would you want back there leading this team right now? Who "all" would you trade KM for?

Sorry man. I missed this. I think it's important to look at the Tua thread for how I felt overall, because I was really hoping for a new GM & coach at the beginning of 2019, then suck it up knowing this was going to be a bad year, and get Tua in 2020 or Lawrence the next.

The league simply doesn't have enough QBs with upside to have a huge list above KM, but it would be the usual suspects, like Mahomes, Watson and such. If we thought we were going to win any time soon that list expands, but this roster is hot garbage.

 

[gimpy]

Well, I agree (maybe) with the couple you mentioned, but I meant realistically getting right now.

And, as far as Tua, well, after this weekend, might could be possible?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oh, I remember. I didn't want him. And then for most of the offseason/camp/preseason, I was unconvinced. Now I think he's good and is the clear future for the team, but this has devolved into current politics at the dinner table, amazingly. Even where I'm a registered Republican.

I won't get too into the analogy, since this isn't P&R, but I can say "sure he's done great in X, but I'm worried he..." and get cut off with "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION HIM, HE IS THE GREATEST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO US AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT YOU CAN GET OUT. OBVIOUSLY YOU WANTED THE OTHER OPTION AND HERE'S THE REASONS THEY ARE TERRIBLE AND WOULD BE FAILING US."

We're 3-5-1, only 14th in points, unlikely to get another win, and the reaction I get to saying "whoa guys let's pump our brakes here" is equivalent to "I hate this team and all of you."

I've never seen this board this fervently passionate about one player.

I think it’s bc we’ve never really had a rookie QB that looked as good as kyler has (warts and all) 10 starts into his rookie season. This is a fan base that’s been waiting for a homegrown franchise quarterback for their entire time in az. Thirty years? The flashes with successful retreads like Warner and Palmer just further stoke our thirst for our own “savior.” We watch the Seattles, Green Bays, San Diego/LAs, new Englands of tge nfl and wish for our own years of quarterback stability. We watch as the Kansas citys, and Houstons embarking on their future of year-in-year-out QB stability and we hope that’s where we are. So yeah, I think people are overdosing a bit on kook-aid in regards to kyler. But I also think it’s understandable.

as for the vote, I’ve long been darksider royalty on this board. What many have viewed as pessimism I’ve prided myself in realism. I can see the bad and good. But after thinking about it I voted kyler. And not necessarily bc I’m 100% convinced as a prospect he’ll be the best of all listed, but rather bc I think as prospects they all likely fall within a similar range (other than Herbert - I think he’s a product of earlier hype and may be too mechanical). It’s a bit of a crapshoot as to how they’ll rank ten years from now. So imo I say, they’re all similarly rated prospects (albeit different skillsets), but we are seeing kyler have individual success at this level already whereas the others haven’t even taken a snap in an nfl practice yet. So I select kyler as he’s a step further proven. If kyler were having a Trubisky-like rookie year I’d probably not place him first. Because it’s not his experience at this level that elevates him imo it’s the evidenced level of success at this point that does so. That level of success, as limited as it may be at present, can only be conjecture for the rest of the candidates.


Oh and Tua May never play an entire nfl season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Could have swore Hurts ran in the 4.4's his soph year at Bama.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Now this is interesting... @GatorAZ

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I agree with one of the comments about a lack of awareness from Kyler or at least not on Lamar's level. While he's not 4.2 speed. At times I do see that 4.3 speed..he's just not a confident runner yet. Lamar is always in top gear.

Kyler seems like he expects to not run as fast and blow by people. Will be interesting to follow next year when maybe he's comfortable.

Could be the weight also. That extra 10 to 15 pounds can really slow down some people.

Its obvious what he is doing. He is running tentatively. There have been like 3 or 4 runs where he put on the jets. Anyone who has watched every game can see this, it's the people not who dont understand.

It's actually not lack of awareness, it's the opposite. Murray understands that he doesnt need to be taking big hits. Lamar takes them all of the time.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Murray is undoubtedly the most promising young QB the Cardinals have ever had in their time in Arizona. He's good. Very good. Is he good enough to turn the tides for the team? Is he good enough to work through some mechanical errors and a lack of talent around him? That I don't know.

Nothing to complain about with the lack of turnovers. I don't even have anything to complain about with the lower amount of touchdowns, besides that I don't think we have the coaching or talent around him, and we're going to buy a buffoon of a GM and glorified offensive coordinator some years of mediocrity on Kyler's back now.

Well experts who diagram plays are quite pleased with what they see from Kingsbury. The coaching is there. Maybe not game time decisions, but Kingsbury has already proven he can design and offense. I still think you are looking for reasons to be right instead of just admitting your prognostications have been dead wrong.

I'm more worried about having a GM that can build a team that can maximize Murray's brilliance and Kingsburys play design.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

The Dolphins plan to tank for Tua didn’t quite work out. The Bengals get to draft Burrow and Tua may not ever be able to play effectively due to injuries. Dolphins deserve the situation they are in

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Its obvious what he is doing. He is running tentatively. There have been like 3 or 4 runs where he put on the jets. Anyone who has watched every game can see this, it's the people not who dont understand.

It's actually not lack of awareness, it's the opposite. Murray understands that he doesnt need to be taking big hits. Lamar takes them all of the time.

Even his long run against the Bucs could have been a bigger play if was willing to stay inside and turn on the jets, but he chose to cut back to the outside and eventually scamper out of bounds untouched.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Even his long run against the Bucs could have been a bigger play if was willing to stay inside and turn on the jets, but he chose to cut back to the outside and eventually scamper out of bounds untouched.

I will take scampering out during his first season (with no playoff potential) over seeing him go down like Tua yesterday.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I will take scampering out during his first season (with no playoff potential) over seeing him go down like Tua yesterday.

Not disagreeing with that. Just pointing out that there are opportunities for him to make some huge plays that just aren't happening because he isn't looking to take them. If he is looking to take full advantage of those opportunities in the future than he will likely have some huge plays as a result.

 

[Solar7]

Well experts who diagram plays are quite pleased with what they see from Kingsbury. The coaching is there. Maybe not game time decisions, but Kingsbury has already proven he can design and offense. I still think you are looking for reasons to be right instead of just admitting your prognostications have been dead wrong.

I'm more worried about having a GM that can build a team that can maximize Murray's brilliance and Kingsburys play design.

I’m fine with his play design, but he is our head coach, not our offensive coordinator. He has to game manage, and is still responsible for putting together a team that can operate on all sides of the ball and win.

 

[blindseyed]

I’m fine with his play design, but he is our head coach, not our offensive coordinator. He has to game manage, and is still responsible for putting together a team that can operate on all sides of the ball and win.

KK doesn't seem to be involved in the defense whatsoever

 

[Krangodnzr]

Even his long run against the Bucs could have been a bigger play if was willing to stay inside and turn on the jets, but he chose to cut back to the outside and eventually scamper out of bounds untouched.

Yes. I want to see Kyler Murray succeed ten years from now. I'll take him avoiding hits to extend his career over 15 yards extra and a hit.