Bickley article on D'Antoni in AZ Central

[Suns_fan69]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1212bickley1212.html

Suns err in keeping it all in the family

Dan Bickley
The Arizona Republic
Dec. 12, 2003 12:00 AM


The Colangelo family has a motto:

When the basketball team needs assistance, turn to the assistants.

No offense to Mike D'Antoni, the latest in three decades of in-house promotions, but this bizarre business model has gone on long enough.

Unless the new guy carries a magic potion, the Suns need to do themselves a favor when the current season comes to a close. They need to hire a big-name, big-dollar coach to wipe the board clean and raise the bar for everyone.

Pat Riley is out there, presiding president of the Miami Heat. Reports have it that his sideline withdrawal is so acute that he's broken three televisions watching his team play.

Doug Collins is out there. Doc Rivers is out there. George Karl is way out there. Although Riley would be the genius selection, the names don't matter as much as the principle.

It has been 30 years since Jerry Colangelo hired outside the Suns' immediate family, plucking John MacLeod from the University of Oklahoma. Thirty years. Normally, one needs a casino badge to spend this much time reshuffling the deck.

This organization likes to brag about its long track record of success, which it should. But tip the prism just a bit, and this inbreeding almost resembles a cozy little cult.

There are some reasons for this, and the first is ego. Colangelo may steer the Diamondbacks, but the Suns will always be his team. This point has been clear for decades, most notably when he hired himself to coach the team a second time. One more trip to the bench and he would tie another good soldier, the backslapping Cotton Fitzsimmons.

Assistants are also cheaper in the short term, and both Colangelo and son understand the sorry nature of the NBA. Head coaches no longer mold; they chaperone, baby-sit and scream things during timeouts that players forget the moment they step on the court.

Bright side is, they are generally assured of getting fired prematurely, thus living the true American fantasy, which is getting paid for nothing.

The problem with these promotions is simple: The new guy may look and sound different, but he was part of the previous regime. Once an extension of the problem, he is now painted as the solution.

This is somewhat illogical, and it lends a transient, drifting feel to the first seat on the bench.

It also keeps the line of authority out of the locker room. Players know the power is upstairs. Players know who runs the show, and in Phoenix, it ain't the head coach, baby.

Meanwhile, that coach will have a hard time fully trusting his staff, knowing the biggest fight might come from the guy to his right. In the NBA, where disgruntled players have access to the pink-slip printing machine, this is a business model destined to fail.

Ah, but the Suns have high hopes for D'Antoni, who needed no pay raise with his promotion. That says he wasn't earning an assistant's wage to begin with, that he was hired explicitly for the day Frank was fired. He is deeply respected within the basketball community, and especially adroit when it comes to Bryan Colangelo's other passion, namely foreign-born players.

All I know is his career record coaching record in the NBA is 14-36, and if this change doesn't work like magic, I offer an amendment to the family manual:

Open the curtain and look outside for a change.

Echoes a lot of what people have said around here regarding Suns mandate of promoting assistants. On a side note, how do you pronounce D'antoni's name? Is it Dee-an-to-ny or Dan-to-ny?

I can't believe i started 2 threads in the same week... must be a record.

 

[newfan101]

As a long time fan and supporter of the Suns and Jerry (the anti BC867 if you will), I'm willing to conceed that this is a fair assesment. Their track record with coaches since Cotton stepped down has been awful. However, there is a ying and a yang to everything. The loyalty Jerry posseses may cause him to hire people within the family that aren't the best for the job. But it is the same personality trait that caused him to work so hard to keep the Suns in Phoenix back in '87, during the drug scandel, when pretty much anyone else would have skipped town.

However, it is about time he step back and hire someone from the outside to coach this team. I would love to see him hire Pat Riley, who would have instant crediblity with the players, especially Marbury and Amare. It may be too big a clash of ego's, however.

 

[green machine]

To me D'Antoni isn't an "in-house" guy. He coached in other places, which is where he made a name for himself. He did not play here. He's only been a member of the Suns for a little over a year, yes?

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by green machine
To me D'Antoni isn't an "in-house" guy. He coached in other places, which is where he made a name for himself. He did not play here. He's only been a member of the Suns for a little over a year, yes?

Very True. But the article also implies that Jerry likes to promote lesser known assistants so he can have control, due to his ego. I think this is harsh, but until he proves otherwise by hiring a "big name" coach, it will be the perception.

 

[schutd]

Ah, but the Suns have high hopes for D'Antoni, who needed no pay raise with his promotion. That says he wasn't earning an assistant's wage to begin with, that he was hired explicitly for the day Frank was fired. He is deeply respected within the basketball community, and especially adroit when it comes to Bryan Colangelo's other passion, namely foreign-born players.

Thats an important thought too, I think. It speaks volumes if indeed D'Antoni was making valid HC money as an assistant. I dont know. The guy seems emminently likeable. But we really have no right to make any kind of judgement until he's playing with a full deck. And thats 4 to 5 weeks off...

 

[Krangodnzr]

This sounds just like the Dave McGinnis promotion.

Hire the inhouse assistant, who was part of the failed regime.

If Mike, by some chance can salvage this year, I would reluctantly give Mike an extension (if I was Jerry).

I like Bickley's idea. I would try and bring in a big name coach with a proven track record if Mike fails miserably.

 

[George O'Brien]

The issue has two parts:

1. Is there a fatal flaw with the vision the Colangelos have about the kind of team they want to put on the coart?

2. If there IS fatal flaw in their approach, what "name" coach in his right mind is going to come here and do somehing different?

The Colangelos like an open court, fast break team that emphasizes speed and athleticism over strength and power. They do not want a slow, grind it out low post offense or one that sacrices offense for defense (Pat Riley would never get an interview).

If we are talking about an established coach that likes their style, then they should go for Don Nelson. Don never seems to get power men in their prime (Lanier was way old when he joined the Bucks and he had Webber only his rookie year). But Nelson has never won it all and he INVENTED small ball.

I am not sure if this approach is fatally flawed. The Suns got to the finals once. Portland made it to the finals with a similar style. But most successful teams have grind it out teams who can handle the "relaxed" officiating of the playoffs. It may be boring, but it works.

 

[Skkorpion]

Good points George.

One correction - Suns made the finals twice, not once.

 

[Gee!]

Back to the lottery we go.

 

[JCSunsfan]

There is a point to the article, but there are also blaring errors.

1. Cotton Fitzimmons was an outside hire--both times. The second time Jerry hired Cotton, he came in as personnel director and then took the job as coach, but the influence was still from the outside. Essentially, Jerry fired himself as personnel director and hired Cotton, when Cotton told Jerry that he needed better players in order to win. That doesn't sound like someone that is power hungry to me. JC wants to win a championship more than maintaining personal grip over the details of this team.

2. D'Antoni is an outside hire in my book. He did not come up in the organization and I don't think he was ever really an assistant coach here--he's simply been a head coach in waiting. He was not hired by FJ. He came in with a head coach's salary. What some people call "promoting from within" others might call "planning ahead."

FJ probably knew that. My guess is that D'Antoni had very little to do with the on the court decisions that have produced the present, sorry state of affairs. FJ was ticked about trading Bo Outlaw, and was not convinced Zarko could be his replacement. D'Antoni is convinced about Zarko, and so is JC. No one yet knows who is right. But whatever the case about that, it is quite clear that FJ and MD were not two parts of a finely meshing, philosophically similar coaching staff.

He comes in with a fresh look from the great success he had coaching in Europe. His experience there gives him an expertise with the zone that no NBA retread coach has. He's got as good a shot at being successful here as Riley.

3. I believe the "power hog" in the front office is as much Cotton Fitzimmons as anyone. As long as Cotton is in JC's ear second guessing everything a coach does, no coach is really safe. I don't think any "big name" coach would abide Cotton.

4. The quintessential inbred is Bryan Colangelo, but his track record as a GM has been pretty decent. Everyone does the hindsight criticism of the Penny and Googs deals, but it is just hindsight. There are a few that were critical at the time, but I chalk that up to being good guessers. Its like stock pickers, there is always someone who guesses right, and trumpets the big "I told you so."

5. It is really disengenuous to criticize JC for naming himself coach. He did so, when he had to fire a really bad coach. When he did, he turned the team around. He lead the Suns to the playoffs and a big lead on the Lakers before the team fell apart. Even then, he gave himself the interim tag and immediately fired himself from coaching after the season was over. On the other hand, Popovich is still coaching the Spurs years after he fired his coach.

6. The alternatives are sorry. Doug Collins has never really been successful. I'd rather have Skiles. Pat Riley and Doc Rivers have never figured out how to coach against the zone. Both their team fell apart as the faced zone defenses. Karl is a head case that would never work here. He didn't mention Donny Nelson, Don Nelson, Rudy T. Those would all probably be better choices.

7. D'Antoni's record in a strike shortened year, with a GM who really wanted to coach himself, has been uniformly discounted as not even closely representing his true talents as a coach. But of course, what sports editorial writer bothers to try to be fair or accurate?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Especially the part about BC. Although he will never win Exec of the year because of the perceived nepotism, he most likely is deserving.

The phx suns have arguably drafted better than 95% of the teams in the NBA since BC took over. (I can't think of a team that has drafted better, especially at later positions, but I will leave room in case I forgot one.)

His trades have almost always worked out for the better. Even though White isn't the answer at center, I do believe he is an upgrade over Zarko and Jake. Once he plays into shape, hopefully he will be even better. Other than that, can anyone come up with a trade that BC orchestrated or accepted that they didn't like, let alone one we got ripped off in?

Although the Penny and Googs contracts look bad now, at the time they weren't so bad. Googs was overpaid a bit, but it was in an era where every player was getting overpaid. Penny had risk with him, but he took a chance on him and it didn't work out. Had Penny gotton healthy when we signed him, who knows what people would be saying.

The only moves that are questionable are the Marion and Steph extensions. However, he apparently firmly believes that this is our core, and wanted to lock them up long term. It is nice that the suns might actually have decided to let a group grow together. Also, I think it was a good move for him to sign them to contracts that expire in the same year. If this team never wins it all under these players, they will loose like 32 million in salaries in 2008. By that time hopefully Amare is locked up (and in his prime) so the suns could effectively blow it up and rebuild again around Amare.

 

[Errntknght]

JCSunsfan, your post was a great read and accurate on the facts as far as I recall them. I'm not so sure where you are guessing - particularly about Cotton second guessing the coaches to JC. As a broadcaster he did that far less than I wished he would - besides he was part of the brain trust that picked the guys.

I disagree with your interpretation of the history, however. I see JC as strictly avoiding any coach who will stand up to him and insist on running the team his way. Cotton was the only coach he ever hired with any NBA credentials - and he's certainly not the type that risks making waves. MacLeod and D'Antoni are outside hires but they were also outside the NBA and beholden to JC for their jobs. I also think it goes beyond wanting guys that are in his pocket - if a name NBA coach came in here and did great things with the Suns, the glory would belong much less to JC than if it was a coach that he'd 'made'. After all this time of avoiding such coaches, if he brought one in and he was a great success it would be like admitting he'd been wrong all these years. So now it's self perpetuating.

Also I don't see how you can say BC is doing a decent job as a GM - one of GMs chief jobs is hiring coaches and we've had nothing but flops. Now I suspect that Skiles was the first coach that BC actually picked but what a way to start. Even if he hadn't been a 'head' case he was all wrong for the kind of team we were supposedly trying to put around Kidd. We have one of if not the very best 'pushing' guard in the history of the game and bring in an EC, grind-it-out-in-the-halfcourt coach? The player selection was just as bad. I'm not just talking about Penny and Googs. Longley, LIvingston, Blount, Elie, Oliver Miller, Rodney, Delk, del Negro are good representative sample and there's not one fast break guy in the bunch. Paul MacPherson was about the only one who was close to the type and Skiles couldn't stand him.
Yep, we did draft Marion. And Tsakilidis.

To me that's not decent, that's plain bad.

To complete the picture, now that we have about the ultimate halfcourt point guard, we are finding guys like JJ, Amare, Zarko, Barbosa and earlier Bo and John Wallace who would fit much better with Kidd than Marbs.

Assuming you were right about the manner of bringing D'Antoni in - that's got to be the sorriest chapter yet in this whole saga. How in the heck could anyone in FJ's spot succeed with his already appointed successor as his chief assistant? On the other hand, what could Mike D' learn under FJ except how not to coach. Sheesh, do the right thing for all concerned and farm him out to Larry, Nellie or Hubie for a couple of years.

And I don't think much of the acquisition of Jahidi, though I like to have a sturdy guy like him on the team - we need a high post center for the starting role and Voskuhl is closer to that than White. I blamed FJ for starting Jahidi before he was over his jet lag but that bonehead move was probably more BC's doing...

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by Errntknght

Yep, we did draft Marion. And Tsakilidis.

To me that's not decent, that's plain bad.

Just out of curiosity, who would you have preferred?

After Marion, the only other 2 first rounders that an arguement could be made for is Corey Magette and Ron Artest. I know a lot of the writers here wanted Magette, but he still isn't nearly as good as Marion. Artest is starting to look like he will be much better, but it took this long to get to that point. And no one knows when he will blow up next.

Instead of Big Jake there was (only naming players worth mentioning)

.....Mark Madsen in the first round

Dan Langhi, Jake Voskuhl......Marko Jaric (he was late to join the team however), Eddie House and Najera.


Najera might have been nice, and since we drafted Euro anyways, Jaric would have been a good pickup. However the team needed a center, and Big Jake was the most promising on the board at the time IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by Errntknght
JCSunsfan, your post was a great read and accurate on the facts as far as I recall them. I'm not so sure where you are guessing - particularly about Cotton second guessing the coaches to JC. As a broadcaster he did that far less than I wished he would - besides he was part of the brain trust that picked the guys.
. . .
Assuming you were right about the manner of bringing D'Antoni in - that's got to be the sorriest chapter yet in this whole saga. How in the heck could anyone in FJ's spot succeed with his already appointed successor as his chief assistant? On the other hand, what could Mike D' learn under FJ except how not to coach.

Just a few things here. My "Cotton theory" starts with the Westphal firing. Cotton retired, then we went out and got Charles. I think Cotton really wanted to coach Chucky and found a way to wiggle back in. Westphal should have never been fired, he was a decent coach.

Glory, has never seemed to be what JC is about. You can read that into the situation if you want to. Putting fannies in the seats, making money, and winning is what JC is about. If it was about glory, he would have kept coaching after he coached the Suns into that Laker series.

About MacLeod and MD being beholden to JC for their jobs. Thats exactly right. . .and so is every other coach beholden to their GM or owner for their jobs.

BC has had some bloopers, but many successes. Most of the players you mention as not meshing were just the best choices available at the time. And they were just role players to boot. We never have tried to build a half court type of team. The whole idea is to have a pushing type of offense. They didn't intend for Kidd to leave. The legal problems and then his unhappiness with BC forced that (Kidd would have left as a FA if we hadn't traded him). I don't blame BC for that, Kidd and Joumana are the head cases there. They proved it in NJ.

They still believe that Steph can be a very effective fast breaking pg. Most people around the league do as well. He will have to change his mindset to do it though.

And as far as FJ being able to succeed with MD waiting. BC and JC knew he wouldn't and couldn't succeed before they ever hired MD as an assistant. It was just a matter of time. Good grief, we all knew! But FJ was a player favorite. Its a players game after all. They had to wait till the players could see it as well.

When it is all said and done, there is not another owner I would rather have.

 

[George O'Brien]

My opionion is that BC has done better at drafting than in dealing with high cost free agents. Even with Big Jake, he was showing promise before his back injury last year and he was never the same since.

BC has actually had good luck with his mid range and veteran mininum cap exeptions. Rogers, Delk, Manning, Cliff Robinson, Mark Bryant, Williams, etc. were fairly productive while they were here.

On the other hand, high end free agent signings (or forced trades in the case of Hardaway) have not been good: Dice, Longley, Googs, and Hardaway were either mistakes or BC just overpaid badly.

The irony of some of the trades being discussed is that they often involve the Suns giving up draft picks -- but they actually do pretty well when they actually draft considering where they pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
On the other hand, high end free agent signings (or forced trades in the case of Hardaway) have not been good: Dice, Longley, Googs, and Hardaway were either mistakes or BC just overpaid badly.
they pick. [/B]

But, to be fair, that seems to be the pattern league-wide. From Grant Hill to Alonzo Mourning this league is full of horror stories of over-paid, under-producing free agents either because of injury or other things.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

And if you notice, most of the bad signings happened in the same couple seasons.

When the new CBA came out, and when the economy/league was prospering so much many owners were willing to write big checks for players they though would put them over the top, even if it meant overpaying. That is not condoning the rash of bad signings, but it does level the playing field when judging BC in comparison to other players. Just a few off the top of my head

Brian Grant
Eddie Jones
Terrell Brandon
Alan Houston
Penny
Googs
Grant Hill
Bo Outlaw

and plenty others.

However, it will still be determined how the Marion and Marbury extensions turn out.

 

[Errntknght]

JCSunsfan wrote, "Just a few things here. My "Cotton theory" starts with the Westphal firing. Cotton retired, then we went out and got Charles. I think Cotton really wanted to coach Chucky and found a way to wiggle back in."

Perhaps, or maybe he was itching to try the triangle, which he did try. But then he stepped aside so quickly for Ainge that it kind of shoots down any theory that he undercut Westfall.

"Westphal should have never been fired, he was a decent coach."

I thought Paul was the best of the bunch of newbies but my thought at the time was, and still is, that if he'd have paid his dues as an assistant under some good coaches he'd have been a successful NBA coach. I thought JC was doing him a disfavor, putting him in charge before he was ready. Same with Ainge.

"Glory, has never seemed to be what JC is about. You can read that into the situation if you want to. Putting fannies in the seats, making money, and winning is what JC is about."

I totally disagree - if he had been all about those things he would have hired the best coaches he could find.

"About MacLeod and MD being beholden to JC for their jobs. Thats exactly right. . .and so is every other coach beholden to their GM or owner for their jobs."

Not at all, many if not most coaches can readily find other teams to coach - they know it and the GMs know it,

"BC has had some bloopers, but many successes. Most of the players you mention as not meshing were just the best choices available at the time. And they were just role players to boot. We never have tried to build a half court type of team. The whole idea is to have a pushing type of offense. They didn't intend for Kidd to leave."

The point of my naming all those secondary guys was that as role players they weren't crucial choices in themselves and since they didn't mesh with the supposed plan, there was little reason to get them at all. Sacramento had (and has) a similar plan for uptempo play and the role players they brought in meshed vastly better overall than the Suns choices did. That shows it can be done if you know what you're doing.

"They still believe that Steph can be a very effective fast breaking pg. Most people around the league do as well. He will have to change his mindset to do it though."

You mean that all that stuff about a 'new direction' was just to justify an unpopular trade? An honorable man like JC fibbing to us?

"And as far as FJ being able to succeed with MD waiting. BC and JC knew he wouldn't and couldn't succeed before they ever hired MD as an assistant. It was just a matter of time. Good grief, we all knew! But FJ was a player favorite. Its a players game after all. They had to wait till the players could see it as well."

Now we've gone from fibbing to outright lying - with all that support the C's mouthed in support of Frankie. And it's certainly not the case we all knew! Don't you remember when I started jumping all over FJ's coaching during that hot streak last December, how many people took strong issue with me? By the end of the playoffs I was being dismissed as the guy who turns everything into a criticism of FJ. (It's somewhat true I did, but the way he coached it was so easy.)

"When it is all said and done, there is not another owner I would rather have."

There are many worse ones around the league but I'm looking forward to the day that JC's control of the Suns is diminished enough that we have rational decisions made about GMs and coaches...


I guess I wasn't clear before why I mentioned Shawn Marion's and Tsakaliki's drafting. I thought everyone would know I meant Marion was the one bright spot in putting together a running team in the Kidd era. But then noted that our other draft was at the opposite end of the spectrum. My next line about it being plain bad was not in reference to drafting Shawn and Big Jake but to the whole prior section. Sorry for the confusion guys....

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Ok, that clears it up, since I was pretty sure every thought those were the two drafts where we couldn't have done better.

And it's certainly not the case we all knew! Don't you remember when I started jumping all over FJ's coaching during that hot streak last December, how many people took strong issue with me? By the end of the playoffs I was being dismissed as the guy who turns everything into a criticism of FJ. (It's somewhat true I did, but the way he coached it was so easy.)

 

[elindholm]

I guess I wasn't clear before why I mentioned Shawn Marion's and Tsakaliki's drafting.... But then noted that our other draft was at the opposite end of the spectrum.

Come on, Tsakalidis was something like the 25th pick. That late, you're very unlikely to find a keeper, and if you do it has a lot more to do with luck than with scouting. I'm disappointed that Tsakalidis didn't work out (or that the Suns didn't keep him long enough to find out whether he would work out, take your pick), but I don't think it's fair to criticize the pick.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by Errntknght
Perhaps, or maybe he was itching to try the triangle, which he did try. But then he stepped aside so quickly for Ainge that it kind of shoots down any theory that he undercut Westfall..

. . .

Now we've gone from fibbing to outright lying - with all that support the C's mouthed in support of Frankie. And it's certainly not the case we all knew! Don't you remember when I started jumping all over FJ's coaching during that hot streak last December, how many people took strong issue with me? By the end of the playoffs I was being dismissed as the guy who turns everything into a criticism of FJ. (It's somewhat true I did, but the way he coached it was so easy.)[/B]

Cotton replaced Westy mid-year and had some fun. But what he really wanted to do was show his old pal Tex Winter that he could run a team with the triangle. It turned out to be a disaster and the players shut down. Cotton was smart enough to know when to get out of the coaching role quick. After all, if he had gone much longer, it really would have hurt his overall record.

I've never been a big FJ fan. I was really disappointed when he was named coach. He's just never struck me as all that bright.

But I am also not one to rip coaches constantly. Some seem to like to do that more than others.

But what we all knew was that FJ was a temporary caretaker--at best.

While not everyone was ripping him, the question was often asked, "Is FJ the coach who will take this team to a title?" The universal answer on this board was, "no."

We all knew FJ would outlive his usefulness as a coach. So did the C's. Call it fibbing if you like, but they supported him while he was coaching, but planned for when he would move on. I don't think it is so much trying to develop a guy in house, as it is trying to tie a guy up, who they think will be a good coach, before someone else will get him.

 

[George O'Brien]

Most people thought getting Big Jake was steal, considering that he was projected to be a lottery pick if his contract status was clear. Cleveland in particular was projected to take him, but took Mihm instead who has not done much.

If Big Jake had worked out, then BC would be considered a genius by challenging his Greek team in court and winning. All in all, it was a decent gamble at that point in the draft.

 

[slinslin]

There is only a few players that were on the board that turned out better than Big Jake.

Michael Redd, Marko Jaric, Jake Voshkul, Eduardo Najera and of course Dan Langhi.

 

[George O'Brien]

Second round players are generally gambles. I was suprised that Redd fell that far, but I'm not sure the others looked like more than projects at the time.

 

[cly2tw]

In the same class with Marion, I think Pierce, taken #10 right after Marion, is all around better since he is a franchise player. Artest (#15) taken with Suns pick traded away for Luc and Magette (#13?) are right now better fits for the current Suns team. But Marion was the first among this bunch to become solid contributor and starter. So, hindsight is...