Bickley feels victory costly (lost lower Draft Pick)

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
13,029
Reaction score
5,329
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Bickley feels Cards blew it by winning game. Feels lower draft pick more important.

That's the story of the Cardinals' 27-26 victory over the Cowboys on Saturday night. The outcome was sweet. The game was crunchy and delicious. Too bad it's going to end up on their hips, slowing them down in the long term.

Alas, it may have cost them a chance to draft Auburn's Cameron Newton, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner.


www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/DanBickley/111693

I'll take a victory over the Cowboys any day!!
 

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
35,421
Reaction score
21,862
Location
South Bay
Because we know Heisman Trophy winners are sure-fire elite NFL QBs :rolleyes:

Honestly who gives a crap? The game is about winning. Its about entertainment and appeasing fans who spend thousands of dollars on tickets, paraphernalia and other goods. The first time I hear a coach give a war cry about tanking a game just so the team could get a better draft pick would be the first time. Players dont go up to each other and slap them across the face and say, "yo Fitz, why are you trying to get that touchdown? Dont you know we could have a top 5 draft pick next year?" As proven in the past, a lower draft slot does not necessarily mean success. Ask the Raiders as JaMarcus Russel has destroyed that franchise. Regardless of if you're picking 1 or 32 in the draft, you will have just about an equal chance at getting a good player if you do your homework.

For the fans who are more interested in draft slot than wins, does it make sense to you all to watch anymore games this season?
 

freebyrd

Registered User
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Posts
3,358
Reaction score
0
Location
fresno
stupid bickley, those who can't play teach or in this case write poorly thought out works of fiction:mulli:
nobody is going to scrooge me out of this victory, having gone from a low point a month or so ago to where i couldn't even watch another derrick anderson led campaign
to this, is a minor christmas miracle so suck an egg bickley
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,942
Reaction score
15,149
Location
Chandler, Az
Bickley is an idiot. The Patriots rarely draft in the top of the draft and they still manage to have solid drafts year after year.
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
64,770
Reaction score
31,223
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
Honestly who gives a crap? The game is about winning. Its about entertainment and appeasing fans who spend thousands of dollars on tickets, paraphernalia and other goods.
It's all about winning. Period.

And we beat the Cowboys in a nationally televised game which makes it even sweeter.

I saw that there were a lot of Cowboy fans in the stands so it must have been nice to walk out of the stadium and not hear anything from them.
 

Cardinals.Ken

That's Mr. Riff-Raff to you!
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
13,359
Reaction score
60
Location
Mesa, AZ
Bickley can kiss my ass. He's just one step above Pedro Gomez in my opinion.

He needs to take his Chi-Town dog-and-pony show elsewhere.
 

thirty-two

boglehead
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Posts
26,993
Reaction score
3,992
Screw him. That victory last night felt great, as did watching the stupid Cowboy fans scurry back to wherever they came from.
 

PJ1

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
12,370
Reaction score
5,572
Location
Nashville TN.
Loser talk. If the Cardinals had lost he would have bashed them for that too.

A wonderful win for many reasons. Some of our younger players will really benefit from this game. Need to experience success.
 

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
Bickley just doesn't get it. You don't build by taking long-shot chances on high draft picks. Winning is ALL-IMPORTANT, especially to a team with young upcoming talent. Winning breeds confidence, and confidence is the ALL-IMPORTANT ingredient in sustaing a winning pattern. It allows a group of young players to relax, and to play from within themselves, knowing and believing that they can attain their desired results. That is so far removed from the feeling of anxiety and hoping that they don't fail. That is how winning is achieved long term.

This is actually a real plus, because it allows us to be in a position of power in the upcoming draft,-----a position from which we can draft BPA, and trade out of an upper choosing position in order to gain additional picks. That allows us to mediate our chances of success. Instead of putting all our hopes on one high pick of need, we can have the opportunity of spreading our fortunes out by taking mulitple BPA picks, (a far better position from which to succeed in the draft). It also means far less money spent, as we would have had to do on one very high draft pick. Last year's draft is an example of how that can be achieved. It would appear that our first five draft picks all will work out well for us. Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, the receiver Roberts, John Skelton, and O'Brian Schoefield are all keepers. That is soooo much better than having placed all our money and picks on a top-five player. Now, once again, we have, (at least), the ability to trade down to gain more picks-----a really good position to be in.

I have always believed that it is better to use Free Agency to fill needs, (a much more sure method of guaranteeng success), and using the draft for gathering great athletecism and talent for the future. They won't all succeed, but by having multiple picks, you increase the odds of success. All your eggs aren't in one basket. Being able to put that young talent into a position where they can succeed, is the way to build confident future winners.
 

Proteus

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
13,021
Reaction score
5,903
It looks like we'll have the 6th pick if we lose to the 49ers or the 11th pick if we beat them.
 
OP
OP
az jam

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
13,029
Reaction score
5,329
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Bickley just doesn't get it. You don't build by taking long-shot chances on high draft picks. Winning is ALL-IMPORTANT, especially to a team with young upcoming talent. Winning breeds confidence, and confidence is the ALL-IMPORTANT ingredient in sustaing a winning pattern. It allows a group of young players to relax, and to play from within themselves, knowing and believing that they can attain their desired results. That is so far removed from the feeling of anxiety and hoping that they don't fail. That is how winning is achieved long term.

This is actually a real plus, because it allows us to be in a position of power in the upcoming draft,-----a position from which we can draft BPA, and trade out of an upper choosing position in order to gain additional picks. That allows us to mediate our chances of success. Instead of putting all our hopes on one high pick of need, we can have the opportunity of spreading our fortunes out by taking mulitple BPA picks, (a far better position from which to succeed in the draft). It also means far less money spent, as we would have had to do on one very high draft pick. Last year's draft is an example of how that can be achieved. It would appear that our first five draft picks all will work out well for us. Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, the receiver Roberts, John Skelton, and O'Brian Schoefield are all keepers. That is soooo much better than having placed all our money and picks on a top-five player. Now, once again, we have, (at least), the ability to trade down to gain more picks-----a really good position to be in.

I have always believed that it is better to use Free Agency to fill needs, (a much more sure method of guaranteeng success), and using the draft for gathering great athletecism and talent for the future. They won't all succeed, but by having multiple picks, you increase the odds of success. All your eggs aren't in one basket. Being able to put that young talent into a position where they can succeed, is the way to build confident future winners.

Some excellent points. We are starting & playing many of the rookies and other young players. Beating Dallas is sweet for the fans and the tream.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
It looks like we'll have the 6th pick if we lose to the 49ers or the 11th pick if we beat them.

I am not going to get upset over a win, but I think some are enjoying the instant gratification of the win and ignoring how deep the problems with this team really are.

Its not so much losing Newton as it is NOT HAVING A TOP 3 PICK IN EVERY ROUND. That helps a team get better fast and gets you the premium players at positions like TE and LB that this teams fanbase is craving so much.

Not only that but apparently no one else has a feel for Wiz because the more winning we do now that its meaningless, the more Wiz will rationalize keeping his buddy Davis and continuing to call plays. You all think that is a fait accompli but the more ammo Whisenhunt can get in that direction, the worse it is by us. Has no one else been paying attention how much he values stability and think things are overcome by experience? If we have a couple of wins at the end of the season then he will point to the 8-8 season before the Super Bowl year as an example of waiting for things to get better.

I just scared the hell out of all of you, didn't I?

By the way the argument that the the young players need to experience winning is stupid. In a month we'll look back and not even think about this game and will have made no difference in the development of Williams and Washington if Feely makes the kick or misses it. Its the playing time thats making them better, not the win.

Face it wins are nice when the season is lost, but are inherently selfish. Think about why you want the win. To feel good for a night. To talk trash to Cowboys fans. To not get made fun when on national TV.

Not all wins are created equal. I like that we won last night and was especially happy that Skelton led the drive that won (which could lead to bigger and better things for next year which is my entire point - getting betetr for 2011) but I would have been equally okay having Feely miss.

That was yet another fluky win. If we would have come out and just dominated them, I would feel differently. But 2 more returns and playing against a QB whom never took a snap and winning doesn't really make me think we have gotten any better since Game 1 or that we can take anything away for next year.

I am not pissed we lost and frankly it was a nice way to end Xmas. But I don't think Bickley is stupid for pointing out the long term ramifications.

In fact I wonder about those fans who say they want to cheer for a division winner again, aren't more aware of these things.
 
Last edited:

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,653
Reaction score
8,067
If Cam Newton was the prize for a higher pick then I'm even happier they won. This way we don't have to spend the next few years bitching about why we took a one year wonder and passed on Patrick Peterson.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
IMO Crying over lost draft spots is ridiculous. You always play to win. Period. Never play for your draft spot.

But explain to me why? Everyone keeps repeating this mantra but what does it really mean? I know Herm Edwards made this famous statement, but how much different of a team are we if we draft Peyton Manning instead of Andre Wadsworth? or Eli/Rivers instead of *gasp* Fitz?

Or Matt Ryan instead of whomever the hell we drafted that year?

What purpose does winning a meaningless December game against another non playoff team mean in the grand scheme of things? Not much.

But being in a position to draft a top QB (and lets face it most of those guys go in the Top 5)??? Thats priceless.

Not only the draft pick (in EVERY round - not just at the top) but how much status quo do you want for 2011? Because only being really bad is going to FORCE change. Right now we are starting to slip into the gray area.

To me its the difference in evaluating things emotionally opposed to logically. I am a pragmatist so I know my view is contrarian to most fans, but it doesn't make me any less right.
 

Arizona's Finest

Your My Favorite Mistake
Joined
Jun 11, 2005
Posts
9,709
Reaction score
1
If Cam Newton was the prize for a higher pick then I'm even happier they won. This way we don't have to spend the next few years bitching about why we took a one year wonder and passed on Patrick Peterson.

I am okay with this point of view.

I happen to think Cam Newton is going to be pretty good, and I think the impending NC game and the exposure will make much of this board start to drool over him (I live in FLA so I watch more SEC football then I care to admit) and want him with the pick. I see alot of Buyers Remorse if we don't get him. He's so much better throwing and running then Vince Young its ridiculous.

And Peterson will be gone in the Top 3. Maybe even #2.
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
It doesn't matter. Whiz was not going to draft Newton. I've resigned to the fact that the Cardinals aren't even going to draft a QB. Whiz is terrified of having to actually groom a young QB. We will be sold some bull about the promise that Skelton has shown and how we already have Hall to back him up. Hell the legend of Skelton will reach mythical proportions come next April.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
120,900
Reaction score
61,442
Bickley seems to enjoy putting a dark spin on things.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
I understand and respect this type of thinking. But Bickley is definately being:

You must be registered for see images



Write about it a week from now when the season is over, for Pete's sake.

Again, I respect and understand the thinking of wins costing us draft pick positioning.

But, personally I don't agree with it, and you play to win the game .... ALWAYS.

And to avoid the annoying debate that goes with that statement, my only backing of the situation is if you don't understand why you always play to win, then you will never understand it.
 
Last edited:

Red Dawn

Go Big Red!
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Posts
4,294
Reaction score
1,459
Location
The West Coast of Arizona
But explain to me why? Everyone keeps repeating this mantra but what does it really mean?

You always play to win. If you don't, that must mean you are playing to lose. Ever hear of the Black Sox? To me there is not much difference throwing a game for gambling purposes and throwing one for a better draft spot. A huge amount of money is bet on games, and the bettors are expecting that teams will be putting forth their best efforts.

I personally hate preseason games because most teams don't play those to win, they are played for player evaluation, and I get that. However, It costs the fan the same amount of money to attend a preseason game as a regular season game; which game is more enjoyable to watch?

Another good example is when a team has already clinched their playoff spot and they trot in their second stringers like the Colts did a few years back. I'm sure the average Colt fan was thrilled to pay full price to see Jim Sorgi come out to play instead of Peyton Manning.

And how do you explain your sudden intent to lose a game to your players, who you have drafted in the past for their good character and winning attitude, and who have always played to win at every level. "Hey Skelton, we don't want you to win this game because we are looking at drafting Cam Newton next year to take your job away from you."

I just don't see how any ethical coach or front office man or player could ever want to lose a game intentionally. I also find it hard to believe a fan could want that, too.
 

clif

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 17, 2004
Posts
8,967
Reaction score
214
Location
Phoenix, az
I understand the sentiment even though I don't agree. We couldn't even be good at being bad. I think being mediocre is worst than being bad. At mediocre we all have false hope and therefore we make stop gap decisions like signing players like Kyle Orton in hopes that he will do something.
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,450
Reaction score
14,742
I would get the sentiment if that game were the difference between getting Andrew Luck or not. That clearly isn't the case.

Newton at #3 or #4? Wow -- that is an enormous gamble.

So -- if it isn't Luck, I really don't care.

I also don't believe that draft rankings are so precise that the difference between drafting 3rd and 6th matters. I know it feels like it matters on draft day, but in terms of how players really do, I am not so sure.
 
Last edited:

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
18,856
Reaction score
17,365
Location
Modesto, California
we are still sitting good for draft position. The team, the staff, are still evaluating what we have,....Miller calling some plays,...defense making adjustments, etc.... what is lost in this is the fact that Davis actually called a decent game for a change....our defense pressed a lot, was very aggressive, and it showed, and helped win the game for us(or DID win the game for us).
Scofield, DD, Washington, Williams, and Campbell all played pretty damned good yesterday..... It makes one think that one solid starting linebacker makes this a pretty high ranked defense. Our secondary was on the dullas receivers tighter than their jerseys were.
I am just hoping this change of style on Davis' part does not cause the F.O. to keep him on.
 
Top