Big Unit to L.A. makes sense?

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
Big Unit to L.A. makes sense

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Peter Gammons
Special to ESPN.com


July 27

Jerry Colangelo and Joe Garagiola have reiterated that they are not running a fire sale and that Randy Johnson is not being dumped to someone whose only offer is to pick up the $24 million remaining on his contract ($7 million of which is deferred).


Would Johnson consent to a Dodgers deal?


Tuesday afternoon, one party close to the situation said that he still believes the future Hall of Famer will remain in Arizona, as bad as it's been. The report that Colangelo and Garagiola received is that third baseman Eric Duncan is the Yankee farmhand closest to the majors that intrigues them. But Duncan plays in the Midwest League and does not fit the 2005 priorities of the Diamondbacks. So, unless George Steinbrenner buys players and trades them for Johnson, and unless Johnson unexpectedly changes his mind and agrees to go to the Angels, the only team that may fit the priorities of Johnson and the D-Backs is the Dodgers.

Whether the Dodgers would give up Paul Lo Duca, Guillermo Mota and a prospect like pitcher Chad Billingsley is another matter.

Arizona wants to make a deal for a catcher and potential closer on the major league level and one or two prospects. The D-Backs also don't want to deal Steve Finley to the Padres because they don't want him to sign there for 2005. They want him to re-sign with the Diamondbacks. So the deal they'd like to make is with Florida. They would send Finley, catcher Brent Mayne and reliever Stephen Randolph for first baseman Jason Stokes, outfielder Abraham Nunez and a pitching prospect, Billy Murphy or Kevin Olsen.

The Fish paused on Stokes and Olsen, and had yet to decide if they would ask Finley to move to left field. Finley has tried to force a deal to San Diego by telling Kevin Towers he won't go the East Coast. So that remains a standoff, and the Marlins continue to talk about four bats, the most notable one being Larry Walker.

The Marlins have struggled but have not considered selling because they still believe that if they get Josh Beckett back Friday, their rotation with Brad Penny, A.J. Burnett, Carl Pavano and Dontrelle Willis can make a strong run down the stretch. After all, they were 18-8 in September last season.


Sexson


As the Marlins believe they can get back this season, so the Diamondbacks believe they can get back into contention next season.

That's what they believe, with Randy, or with the major league-ready talent they get for him.

Even if Finley were to go to San Diego, he could return to Arizona, which hopes to re-sign Richie Sexson. The D-Backs also hope that they can get Mota to close behind Jose Valverde, Brian Bruney, Oscar Villarreal and Jason Bulger (who has hit 100 mph on the gun in Double-A).

When healthy, the Diamondbacks have talent at and close to the major league level, with outfielder Conor Jackson likely to be able to jump from Double-A to the majors next season. Outfielder Carlos Quentin, infielder Sergio Santos and No. 1 pick Stephen Drew are close behind. The team will sign Drew, who it believes is ahead of J.D. at this stage and a potential impact player in the middle infield.

So Randy and everyone waits out the week. Even though Kris Benson to Minnesota for Doug Mientkiewicz and Mike Restovich appears close, Pirates GM Dave Littlefield may hold on and see if he can squeeze one or two more players out of the deep Minnesota organization. As Littlefield always states, they can always say no.
 

NJYAJ09

Hall of Famer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Posts
1,426
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale
well, peter's wrong on one part. Finleys only going to the west coast.
 

thirty-two

boglehead
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Posts
26,992
Reaction score
3,990
Wow I didn't even realize Brent Mayne was still on our team!

I really really hope RJ stays. I know it would help us if we traded him, but I just don't want to see him go.
 

NJYAJ09

Hall of Famer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Posts
1,426
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale
I'm ready for randy to leave. Don't get me wrong I love him to death, but I think randy deserves to be on a contender. The other night he threw 8 innings 14 k's 0 runs, and gets a ND. It must be frustrating for randy right now.
 

sly fly

Devil Me This
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Posts
2,469
Reaction score
0
Location
N. Phx
NJYAJ09 said:
I'm ready for randy to leave. Don't get me wrong I love him to death, but I think randy deserves to be on a contender. The other night he threw 8 innings 14 k's 0 runs, and gets a ND. It must be frustrating for randy right now.

A seemingly can't miss trade for the D'Backs. The money alone saved by trading Randy could net 3 solid starting pitchers next season.

On one hand, you want or could still build around RJ and Sexson.

On another, some team is going to give up a lot to snare RJ for the closing stretch.

Would the Dodgers really give up Paul Lo Duca?
 

Alan

Hall of Famer
Joined
May 9, 2002
Posts
1,441
Reaction score
234
Location
Cherry Hill, N.J.
Abraham Nunez? Wasn't he the five-tool prospect the D'backs lost because someone they traded got hurt.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,801
Reaction score
6,820
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
sly fly said:
A seemingly can't miss trade for the D'Backs. The money alone saved by trading Randy could net 3 solid starting pitchers next season.

On one hand, you want or could still build around RJ and Sexson.

On another, some team is going to give up a lot to snare RJ for the closing stretch.

Would the Dodgers really give up Paul Lo Duca?

Dodgers have Koyie Hill in the minors, a good prospect, but nowhere near other catching prospects involved in the Randy rumors such as Shoppach and Jeff Mathis. I doubt DePodesta gives up LoDuca considering he's such an integral part of the chemistry of the hottest team in baseball.

What pisses me off is Colangelo's reluctance to trade Finley to the Padres because he wants him back next year. Wake up, DBack front office. As ageless as he seems the birth certificate says he's almost forty years old. Is this team ever going to rebuild or we going to keep running a team full of geriatrics out there until we win zero games?

Build around Sexson and RJ? Great idea. A lot of teams build around a 41 year old pitcher and a 30 year old slugger who whiffs 150 times a year and is coming of a major shoulder injury.
 
Last edited:

Ryanwb

ASFN IDOL
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
35,576
Reaction score
6
Location
Mesa
Alan said:
Abraham Nunez? Wasn't he the five-tool prospect the D'backs lost because someone they traded got hurt.
I think there was a clerical mistake, the D'backs had put down another player's name that was Abraham Nunez who was a pitcher (I think he plays for the Pirates now) but the Marlins claimed Abraham Nunez the outfielder and it went to arbitration and the D'backs lost
 

sly fly

Devil Me This
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Posts
2,469
Reaction score
0
Location
N. Phx
MaoTosiFanClub said:
Build around Sexson and RJ? Great idea. A lot of teams build around a 41 year old pitcher and a 30 year old slugger who whiffs 150 times a year and is coming of a major shoulder injury.

I'm not saying it's a good idea. However, what the D'backs do with RJ's salary will affect Sexson's decision to come back. With him or without him.

Whiffs 150 times a year and coming off a shoulder injury. Geez, can you get any more cynical?

Randy may be 41... but wouldn't surprise me if he's still going at it hard for the next 3-4 years (that's a long time). Who knows, Randy slows down... and becomes one of the most dominating closers around.

I do say that you have to trade him now. Even if it's to a same division team. He is 41 and his value will never be higher. But, the decision Joe G. makes will define his career. Even if the Schilling blunder already has.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,801
Reaction score
6,820
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
sly fly said:
I'm not saying it's a good idea. However, what the D'backs do with RJ's salary will affect Sexson's decision to come back. With him or without him.

Whiffs 150 times a year and coming off a shoulder injury. Geez, can you get any more cynical?

Randy may be 41... but wouldn't surprise me if he's still going at it hard for the next 3-4 years (that's a long time). Who knows, Randy slows down... and becomes one of the most dominating closers around.

I do say that you have to trade him now. Even if it's to a same division team. He is 41 and his value will never be higher. But, the decision Joe G. makes will define his career. Even if the Schilling blunder already has.


Please excuse my Sexson bashing. I've always been a Richie Sexson hater even before we traded half a starting lineup for him. To me he's just a souped up version of Rob Deer or Mickey Tettleton, a slightly better hitter than Reggie Sanders but without the defense.

Sexson's shoulder injury should not be overlooked. Look at what a labrum tear has done to Shawn Green, once one of the most promising hitters in the game. Personally if it were up to me I'd save the ten figures a year on Sexon and go after #4 & 5 starters but that's just me.

My Dad is on the RJ as a closer bandwagon. I just don't know. Nolan Ryan began his decline at 42, and even a freak like Johnson has got to start breaking down at some point. The guy's 6'10 for christ's sake. If I was a GM, it'd be very hard for me to pass up some of these deals which I'm sure Joe is getting for a player of Johnson's age.
 
OP
OP
devilalum

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
sly fly said:
I'm not saying it's a good idea. However, what the D'backs do with RJ's salary will affect Sexson's decision to come back. With him or without him.

Whiffs 150 times a year and coming off a shoulder injury. Geez, can you get any more cynical?

Randy may be 41... but wouldn't surprise me if he's still going at it hard for the next 3-4 years (that's a long time). Who knows, Randy slows down... and becomes one of the most dominating closers around.

I do say that you have to trade him now. Even if it's to a same division team. He is 41 and his value will never be higher. But, the decision Joe G. makes will define his career. Even if the Schilling blunder already has.

Randy wouldn't be a good closer. His worst innings are almost always the first 2 of a game. He gets stronger as the game goes on and I don't see how getting older is going to help him loosen up any faster.

That being said I could see him as an effective starter for another 4 years. :shrug:

The only Dbacks games I enjoy watching lately are the Randy starts. If he goes the Dbacks better get something unbelievable in return because they need help in just about every area.

Question:

How many Dbacks would even make the roster of any other first place team?

RJ, Fins, maybe Webb? Gonzo's crippled and Bautista sure has weak power #s for a RF. Every other player on this team would either be released or sent down by any contender.
 

sly fly

Devil Me This
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Posts
2,469
Reaction score
0
Location
N. Phx
MaoTosiFanClub said:
Please excuse my Sexson bashing. I've always been a Richie Sexson hater even before we traded half a starting lineup for him. To me he's just a souped up version of Rob Deer or Mickey Tettleton, a slightly better hitter than Reggie Sanders but without the defense.

Sexson's shoulder injury should not be overlooked. Look at what a labrum tear has done to Shawn Green, once one of the most promising hitters in the game. Personally if it were up to me I'd save the ten figures a year on Sexon and go after #4 & 5 starters but that's just me.

My Dad is on the RJ as a closer bandwagon. I just don't know. Nolan Ryan began his decline at 42, and even a freak like Johnson has got to start breaking down at some point. The guy's 6'10 for christ's sake. If I was a GM, it'd be very hard for me to pass up some of these deals which I'm sure Joe is getting for a player of Johnson's age.

Which is exactly why I think they have to trade RJ. Teams are salivating, and I hope Joe G. waits until the very last bid to send him somewhere.

I'm higher on Sexson than you are, but it KILLS me to see Overbay tearing it up for the Brews. I've been an Overbay fan since he was lighting up A ball. He was given a raw deal here, and this team (and most fans) were impatient with him.

Sexson seems to have the type of personality in which he be just fine coming back from the injury. At least, I hope so. I think he's just coming into his prime, and opposing teams were starting to fear him ala Barry Bonds.
 

AZZenny

Registered User
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Posts
9,235
Reaction score
2
Location
Cave Creek
"Sexson seems to have the type of personality in which he be just fine coming back from the injury. At least, I hope so."

Unfortunately personality has nothing to do with it. This surgery involves stapling a ligament tightly to a bone and tightening up the surrounding sheath and muscles. On average people lose 15-20% of range of motion, measured at 18-24 months post surgery (which is when it is considered fully recovered). The range of ROM loss is 10-35%. At best, these guys are not "normal" until the second year post-surg, while trying to regain flexibility, instinctive stroke mechanics, etc. At worst, you end up on the 25-30% loss of ROM and you will never be the player you were before.
 

NJYAJ09

Hall of Famer
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Posts
1,426
Reaction score
0
Location
Scottsdale
Its almost like you knew Sexson was going to go down. He went three straight years playing every inning of every game. Tough luck for the D'Backs. Sexson will probably sign with someone else and hit 50 home runs.
 

Evil Ash

Henchman Supreme
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Posts
9,757
Reaction score
1,987
Location
On a flying cocoon
MaoTosiFanClub said:
What pisses me off is Colangelo's reluctance to trade Finley to the Padres because he wants him back next year. Wake up, DBack front office. As ageless as he seems the birth certificate says he's almost forty years old. Is this team ever going to rebuild or we going to keep running a team full of geriatrics out there until we win zero games?

From what I've heard its not his reluctance due to Jerry wanting to re-sign Fins, its due to the fact that the Padres have been lowballing the Dbacks on a trade offer badly. The Padres feel that their team was the only one that Fins would accept a deal to and thus have been low-balling on trade offers.
 

Djaughe

___________________
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Posts
27,756
Reaction score
9
If the diamondbacks trade RJ to the dodgers then they are pretty much giving up for next year in winning the west.
 

abomb

Registered User
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Posts
21,836
Reaction score
1
Didn't see this anywhere else...Peter Gammons is reporting that the three-day negotiation with the Dodgers has been stymied by Randy stating that he will ONLY go to the Yankees. Apparently, Joe Jr is leaning toward doing nothing.

A-Bomb
 

coyoteshockeyfan

Fool In The Rain
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Posts
8,942
Reaction score
405
abomb said:
Didn't see this anywhere else...Peter Gammons is reporting that the three-day negotiation with the Dodgers has been stymied by Randy stating that he will ONLY go to the Yankees. Apparently, Joe Jr is leaning toward doing nothing.

A-Bomb

For a guy that wants out so badly he sure is being very picky. I heard on ESPN radio that he did indeed shoot down a deal with the Dodgers, but it also said that the Angels were his 2nd choice behind the Yankees, so maybe theres hope for a decent trade after all...
 

abomb

Registered User
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Posts
21,836
Reaction score
1
I would have absolutely loved a deal with LA for LoDuca and others. Man, I love that guy, but not in that way.

A-Bomb
 

Djaughe

___________________
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Posts
27,756
Reaction score
9
abomb said:
I would have absolutely loved a deal with LA for LoDuca and others. Man, I love that guy, but not in that way.

A-Bomb
lol...I respect him as a player too but LoDuca is such an integral part of the team...LA would be crazy to trade him away.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
556,349
Posts
5,435,195
Members
6,329
Latest member
cardinals2025
Top