Biggest Draft Disappointments

[Mulli]

My draft sources tell me that your DVOA is like a four or something.

Yards after contact are so bad. Excellent contested catch rate though

 

[Solar7]

You mean X (Split End) or Z (Flanker) role. Y is the TE and usually refers to an inline TE, though it can also be used for the slot receiver.

Man, I've been using this wrong for years. That said, I think so have a lot of my friends, people I know, and even my HS coaches.

@Chopper0080 I don't disagree that the Cardinals will likely need a better #3 WR.

But I think in the short run, Dortch can work as a #3 in the short run. He's going to be a possession slot guy, and little else. I'm just excited that the team isn't going to try and foisr up Moore as viable NFL player, because Dortch is clearly better.

Next off season some team's fans are going to be excited about signing Greg Dortch.

And I think if we are looking for a real solution to the #3 WR, none of the fourth round guys are going to be actual NFL players. The chances are pretty slim, not that much greater than Palmer.

Agreed. I want to solidify my stance with everyone, and clarify that I don't think Dortch solves any long term problems at the position for the Cards, but for right now he's good enough.

 

[Solar7]

I do want to address the "top 3 receivers in the top 3 rounds" thing. Using this as my guide: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ft-texans-atop-list-after-stefon-diggs-trade/

That's a top 12 trios ranking (but before the draft so I tried to slot some guys in). Imperfectly, it appears to me that only 3 teams will be fielding a top 3 they drafted in the top 3 rounds. The Bengals, Seahawks, Buccaneers, and 49ers. Maybe there's some others I'm missing (the Packers came to mind but no). And even then, for those four teams, those picks are pretty spread out.

I know there's technically fluidity here as more teams probably have a medley of top-3 rounders but I don't really count it when you trade a bunch of picks for them or sign them in FA.

 

[kerouac9]

Agreed. I want to solidify my stance with everyone, and clarify that I don't think Dortch solves any long term problems at the position for the Cards, but for right now he's good enough.

Good enough for what kind of team? A team that aspires to eight wins?

I agree that we probably didn't need to invest another good draft pick in the WR position -- we need to be able to sign free agent WRs better than Zach Pascal or develop better ones from later draft picks.

But being comfortable with Greg Dortch seeing a ton of snaps and being one injury away from being a starter? You should expect more.

 

[Stout]

Except... he didn't really struggle. He played pretty well for a 3rd round rookie.

I guess, answer me this... would you rather give up on Wilson? Like, wish we didn't draft him? I guess I can see the argument if you really don't think the guy has what it takes or will ever develop past what we saw, whether that's on account of injury or just skill. I've been there with players.

I reject your all or nothing logic. Just because some posters wanted another WR doesn't mean giving up on Wilson. That's a terrible argument you're making.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I reject your all or nothing logic. Just because some posters wanted another WR doesn't mean giving up on Wilson. That's a terrible argument you're making.

Yeah… I don’t get the idea that a third round WR means we’re giving up on Wilson. To me, that looks like you’re trying to solidify your third WR spot and creating more depth, pushing Dortch to 4, and doing so partly because we need to hedge on Wilson because of his durability issues.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah… I don’t get the idea that a third round WR means we’re giving up on Wilson. To me, that looks like you’re trying to solidify your third WR spot and creating more depth, pushing Dortch to 4, and doing so partly because we need to hedge on Wilson because of his durability issues.

Did we give up on Garrett Williams because we drafted two corners on day 2?

 

[Mulli]

Did we give up on Garrett Williams because we drafted two corners on day 2?

You did before we drafted them…

Booom

 

[kerouac9]

You did before we drafted them…

Booom

I’m fine with Garrett Williams. Didn’t really see enough of him to say anything.

If he get injured again in 2024? Here comes the white sheet.

 

[Solar7]

Good enough for what kind of team? A team that aspires to eight wins?

I agree that we probably didn't need to invest another good draft pick in the WR position -- we need to be able to sign free agent WRs better than Zach Pascal or develop better ones from later draft picks.

But being comfortable with Greg Dortch seeing a ton of snaps and being one injury away from being a starter? You should expect more.

Well, yes, I don't anticipate winning much more than 8 games, Dortch or not.

I reject your all or nothing logic. Just because some posters wanted another WR doesn't mean giving up on Wilson. That's a terrible argument you're making.

Yeah… I don’t get the idea that a third round WR means we’re giving up on Wilson. To me, that looks like you’re trying to solidify your third WR spot and creating more depth, pushing Dortch to 4, and doing so partly because we need to hedge on Wilson because of his durability issues.

It really depends on the type of WR drafted. If you draft a typical outside WR, it's a problem. More of a shifty slot guy? That's different.

I think I'm having a snap reaction to the constant redrafting of positions with Keim every year, and guys sitting on the bench with no chance to develop.

Did we give up on Garrett Williams because we drafted two corners on day 2?

In a sense, yes. Does Williams start over Murphy-Bunting or Melton? I'd say it's unlikely. He'll be competing against those guys, and battling Jones for playing time. A Kei'Trel Clark is likely to not even make the roster.

 

[kerouac9]

It really depends on the type of WR drafted. If you draft a typical outside WR, it's a problem. More of a shifty slot guy? That's different.

This is a false distinction. All good outside WRs can play from the slot. Many slot receivers struggle on the outside.

Just take a good WR.

Does Williams start over Murphy-Bunting or Melton? I'd say it's unlikely.

All three can start. Most teams play 3WR as a base set. He should probably start outside and shift SMB to the slot where he was best.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Did we give up on Garrett Williams because we drafted two corners on day 2?

Bingo. We addressed a glaring need there while ignoring another... while loaded with a war chest of picks. Just kinda a head scratching to me.

 

[oaken1]

Reading through this thread...
Holy crap! Are y'all telling me that our offensive production may suffer if we lose a starter to injury?
Holy crap...I can't believe Monti let us get into this situation.

 

[daves]

All good outside WRs can play from the slot.

Assertion without evidence?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Assertion without evidence?

Yeah that was as silly a comment as I've ever seen on this board.

Not all outside receivers can excel as a slot. Imagine trying Michael Floyd in the slot!?! That's just dumb.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The Chiefs were really dumb not to take Spencer Rattler, because if Mahomes gets hurt they are screwed.

-Chiefs darksider (if they even exist at this point)

Reading through this thread...
Holy crap! Are y'all telling me that our offensive production may suffer if we lose a starter to injury?
Holy crap...I can't believe Monti let us get into this situation.

 

[kerouac9]

Assertion without evidence?

Most, then.

 

[Mulli]

Most, then.

All. Name one who can’t.

 

[Goldfield]

Except... he didn't really struggle. He played pretty well for a 3rd round rookie.

I guess, answer me this... would you rather give up on Wilson? Like, wish we didn't draft him? I guess I can see the argument if you really don't think the guy has what it takes or will ever develop past what we saw, whether that's on account of injury or just skill. I've been there with players.

I’d of put Wilson or the rookie in the slot.

 

[Chopper0080]

The Chiefs were really dumb not to take Spencer Rattler, because if Mahomes gets hurt they are screwed.

-Chiefs darksider (if they even exist at this point)

A couple of critiques here...

1 - This thread is titled draft disappointments. The title implies it is a thread where people can voice where they were disappointed with the draft (even if most liked it as a whole). To come into this thread and mock the concerns and areas of disappointment voiced by posters is borderline trolling IMO.

2 - Equating the impact to the Cardinals losing any player to the impact of the Chiefs losing Mahomes is next level, disingenuous snark.

Be better.

 

[Chopper0080]

Reading through this thread...
Holy crap! Are y'all telling me that our offensive production may suffer if we lose a starter to injury?
Holy crap...I can't believe Monti let us get into this situation.

You aren't reading it correctly then. The statement is that instead of a backup CB at pick 90, there are those who would prefer a backup WR. For a variety of reasons.

Your mocking of those participating in a critique thread is troll level behavior.

 

[QuebecCard]

Well, yes, I don't anticipate winning much more than 8 games, Dortch or not.



It really depends on the type of WR drafted. If you draft a typical outside WR, it's a problem. More of a shifty slot guy? That's different.

I think I'm having a snap reaction to the constant redrafting of positions with Keim every year, and guys sitting on the bench with no chance to develop.


In a sense, yes. Does Williams start over Murphy-Bunting or Melton? I'd say it's unlikely. He'll be competing against those guys, and battling Jones for playing time. A Kei'Trel Clark is likely to not even make the roster.

Williams is likely to slot in at nickel as he did last season.

 

[gmabel830]

The Chiefs were really dumb not to take Spencer Rattler, because if Mahomes gets hurt they are screwed.

-Chiefs darksider (if they even exist at this point)

No, the Falcons were really dumb not to take Rattler as the heir apparent after Michael Penix, Jr who is the heir apparent after Kirk Cousins.

 

[Krangodnzr]

A couple of critiques here...

1 - This thread is titled draft disappointments. The title implies it is a thread where people can voice where they were disappointed with the draft (even if most liked it as a whole). To come into this thread and mock the concerns and areas of disappointment voiced by posters is borderline trolling IMO.

2 - Equating the impact to the Cardinals losing any player to the impact of the Chiefs losing Mahomes is next level, disingenuous snark.

Be better.

That was the point, though.

Any team losing a star player for a good part of the season can essentially sink a year.

It was snark for effect.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You aren't reading it correctly then. The statement is that instead of a backup CB at pick 90, there are those who would prefer a backup WR. For a variety of reasons.

Your mocking of those participating in a critique thread is troll level behavior.

As bad as the Cardinals are at WR, you could argue they were worse at CB. Coming into the season, the Cardinals had ZERO starters at outside corner (I think Williams is basically a starter at NCB).

They signed SMB and filled out the depth chart with the draft.

WR at least had SOME NFL talent. Not much but you had Wilson, Dortch, and Chris Moore.

If you only draft Melton, you still have a big hole at the backup outside CB position, which as we have seen over the, oh I don't know the past decade, that can be a pretty big hole.

I agree there was two holes, but CB was still a bigger hole.