Biggest reason for 9ers success?

[82CardsGrad]

While many on this board would refuse to admit it, the facts are pretty plain - the 9ers are a damn good football team and arguably the best team in the NFL at this moment... though, they have a huge test this coming Sunday versus the Giants.
Nonetheless, I was debating with some folks as to what has played the largest role in their turn-around... Some say it was the additional of Harbough. Others say just getting rid of a loon like Singletarry alone was the catalyst. I actually believe it goes deeper than all of that. And IMHO, you need not look no further than their o-line:

Staley - 1st round pick by the 9ers

Iupati - 1st round pick by the 9ers

Goodwin - 5th rounder picked by the Jets back in '02, but, has been incredibly durable and reliable, playing in a whopping 154 games since being drafted!
Now back-up by Kilgore who was drafted in the 5th round by the 9ers in 2011.

Boone - UDFA selected by the 9ers in 2009

Anthony Davis - 1st round pick in 2010 by the 9ers

That is 4 starters that were drafted by the 9ers - 3 of which were 1st round picks!
Now compare that to the Cards current and historical o-lines, and try to do so without barfing...

 

[ARZCardinals]

There's more to it than that...but investing in the front lines has been something the Cards have gone away from.

I think the taste left in their mouths from Levi Brown has had long lasting effects.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

While many on this board would refuse to admit it, the facts are pretty plain - the 9ers are a damn good football team and arguably the best team in the NFL at this moment... though, they have a huge test this coming Sunday versus the Giants.
Nonetheless, I was debating with some folks as to what has played the largest role in their turn-around... Some say it was the additional of Harbough. Others say just getting rid of a loon like Singletarry alone was the catalyst. I actually believe it goes deeper than all of that. And IMHO, you need not look no further than their o-line:

Staley - 1st round pick by the 9ers

Iupati - 1st round pick by the 9ers

Goodwin - 5th rounder picked by the Jets back in '02, but, has been incredibly durable and reliable, playing in a whopping 154 games since being drafted!
Now back-up by Kilgore who was drafted in the 5th round by the 9ers in 2011.

Boone - UDFA selected by the 9ers in 2009

Anthony Davis - 1st round pick in 2010 by the 9ers

That is 4 starters that were drafted by the 9ers - 3 of which were 1st round picks!
Now compare that to the Cards current and historical o-lines, and try to do so without barfing...

Wow...this sounds eerily familiar...

Fixing the O-Line will take time.

Take the Niners starting 5 for instance:

Staley (LT) drafted 2007 2nd round
Iupati (LG) drafted 2010 2nd round
Goodwin (C) FA 2011
Rachel (RG) drafted 2008 2nd round
Davis (RT) drafted 2010 1st round

I think we have some pieces in place already (College, Sendlein, and Latui when he's in shape), but rebuilding our line would take astute scouting, and proper coaching. Our track record in selecting tackles is spotty at best.

The only difference now is that, in my opinion, the only (tentative) piece we have in place at this time is Massey. The rest of our line is barely passable, at best.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Wow...this sounds eerily familiar...



The only difference now is that, in my opinion, the only (tentative) piece we have in place at this time is Massey. The rest of our line is barely passable, at best.

Staley and Iupati were first rounders...

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Staley and Iupati were first rounders...

Touché mon ami...at least I had the right idea.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Touché mon ami...at least I had the right idea.

Great minds Ken!

 

[Russ Smith]

I said it too but after Ken but before 82. they realized the OL sucked and they addressed it.

Then changing coaches made the final big difference needed.

I think we need to change the OL coach not the head coach but we need to address the oL talent.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I said it too but after Ken but before 82. they realized the OL sucked and they addressed it.

Then changing coaches made the final big difference needed.

I think we need to change the OL coach not the head coach but we need to address the oL talent.

Indeed.

However, it's difficult to coach away getting blown off the ball or failing to have the footwork to pull effectively at guard. IMHO

 

[Russ Smith]

Indeed.

However, it's difficult to coach away getting blown off the ball or failing to have the footwork to pull effectively at guard. IMHO

Yep my main issue with Grimm is how often we look totally unprepared for things like stunts.

And the stuff in recent years about our OL tipping plays you'd think by now we'd self scout. I mean if Horton thinks the Pats tip plays you don't think he can help us figure if our OL does but I get the impression Grimm just ignores stuff like that.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yep my main issue with Grimm is how often we look totally unprepared for things like stunts.

And the stuff in recent years about our OL tipping plays you'd think by now we'd self scout. I mean if Horton thinks the Pats tip plays you don't think he can help us figure if our OL does but I get the impression Grimm just ignores stuff like that.

You might want to add our inability to execute a simple screen play as well...

 

[conraddobler]

Yep my main issue with Grimm is how often we look totally unprepared for things like stunts.

And the stuff in recent years about our OL tipping plays you'd think by now we'd self scout. I mean if Horton thinks the Pats tip plays you don't think he can help us figure if our OL does but I get the impression Grimm just ignores stuff like that.

I think Grimm is a bad coach.

He dosen't strike me as particularly bright, it's dejavu from when Mean Joe was here, another HOF guy coaching for us.

I think HOF players generally make poor coaches.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2008/10/21/great-players-rarely-make-great-coaches/ There's a blog that agrees with me and expresses what I'm saying.

The best coaches were usually mediocre or average players or never played at all.

First of all you must have insane talent to get to the HOF, the problem with that is it skews your ideas on everything, everything is easier for you automatically than any other player by definition it means you're likely to suck at coaching.

Give me a guy who played for x long who had no business playing, who only held on because he had extreme knowledge of the game and I'll show you a potential coach.

Show me a HOF player and I'll show you a waste as a coach, exceptions to the rule? Possibly but why bother?

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Yep my main issue with Grimm is how often we look totally unprepared for things like stunts.

And the stuff in recent years about our OL tipping plays you'd think by now we'd self scout. I mean if Horton thinks the Pats tip plays you don't think he can help us figure if our OL does but I get the impression Grimm just ignores stuff like that.

This brings up an interesting question: Has there ever been a Hall of Fame player that made an effective coach in any sport? Lenny Wilkens maybe?

 

[82CardsGrad]

I think Grimm is a bad coach.

He dosen't strike me as particularly bright, it's dejavu from when Mean Joe was here, another HOF guy coaching for us.

I think HOF players generally make poor coaches.

Great point!

 

[kerouac9]

This brings up an interesting question: Has there ever been a Hall of Fame player that made an effective coach in any sport? Lenny Wilkens maybe?

Dick LeBeau. I think he's in the HOF.

San Francisco's success is predicated on the fact that of their 22 starters, something like 14 of them are former 1st- and 2nd-round picks. It's really remarkable the way they've been able to stockpile talent.

Remember how Justin Smith was a career disappointment in Cincinnati?

 

[conraddobler]

Great point!

Funny thing is Whiz is the epitome of what you want and he hired the epitome of what you don't want.

That's where a GM would come in handy a strong version.

I was the GM it'd be one of my questions just for fun, just before I hire you tell me about who's going to be your assitants, any possible HOF players in there, insert joking attitude.

If you told me yeah as a matter of fact there is one.....

Never get the job, NEXT!

 

[conraddobler]

Dick LeBeau. I think he's in the HOF.

San Francisco's success is predicated on the fact that of their 22 starters, something like 14 of them are former 1st- and 2nd-round picks. It's really remarkable the way they've been able to stockpile talent.

Remember how Justin Smith was a career disappointment in Cincinnati?

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...u-goes-in-to-hall-of-fame-like-a-lion-258659/

Eh, not really, he was good but wasn't worthy of the HOF until decades after he retired and then got in mainly for coaching I'd say.

 

[Russ Smith]

Dick LeBeau. I think he's in the HOF.

San Francisco's success is predicated on the fact that of their 22 starters, something like 14 of them are former 1st- and 2nd-round picks. It's really remarkable the way they've been able to stockpile talent.

Remember how Justin Smith was a career disappointment in Cincinnati?

They also benefitted from making the right coaching change. They brought in consecutive coaches to build the defense(nolan and Singletary) and then realized with the right coach we could fix the offense and brought in Harbaugh to do that.

They were smart enough to realize they had a playoff caliber defense just needed the offense. We'll see how this year goes with the injuries but if the O continues to be bad we need to pressure Whiz to replace Grimm and maybe Miller with the same idea. We have a playoff defense, we just need a good offense.

 

[kerouac9]

They also benefitted from making the right coaching change. They brought in consecutive coaches to build the defense(nolan and Singletary) and then realized with the right coach we could fix the offense and brought in Harbaugh to do that.

They were smart enough to realize they had a playoff caliber defense just needed the offense. We'll see how this year goes with the injuries but if the O continues to be bad we need to pressure Whiz to replace Grimm and maybe Miller with the same idea. We have a playoff defense, we just need a good offense.

We have a playoff offense and a playoff offensive coaching staff. That's the argument that the staff is going to make--the system works. Whiz isn't going to fire himself, and he's the head man in charge of the offense.

If it hasn't happened the last two years when the offense has remained relatively healthy, it's not going to happen this year when the offense has been devastated by injury.

 

[Russ Smith]

We have a playoff offense and a playoff offensive coaching staff. That's the argument that the staff is going to make--the system works. Whiz isn't going to fire himself, and he's the head man in charge of the offense.

If it hasn't happened the last two years when the offense has remained relatively healthy, it's not going to happen this year when the offense has been devastated by injury.

that's why I said we need to pressure him. The fact is the defense is ready right now, the offense isn't. That's on him to fix.

I think Whiz is a good coach but you can make the argument if he's not willing to fire friends that it will ultimately cost him his job. Promote Horton, hire a qualified guy to run the offense and draft for the offense.

Note, I'm not advocating that I like Whiz, I just think another year of an inept offense should be enough to push him to change it up.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm looking forward to SF's offense actually getting challenged by a legit defense. Their lone LOSS was to Minnesota,who is currently ranked 7th in yrds allowed/gm....and 6th in points allowed/gm.

They have yet to face an NFC West opponent.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm looking forward to SF's offense actually getting challenged by a legit defense. Their lone LOSS was to Minnesota,who is currently ranked 7th in yrds allowed/gm....and 6th in points allowed/gm.

They have yet to face an NFC West opponent.

Oh absolutely but they are a very balanced offense so far. It sickens me because they built an offense exactly how I would, 2 TE's, draft the OL and get a tough RB. Their WR's and QB are just average guys.

I was really hoping getting Moss and Manningham would tempt them to open it up but it hasn't.

 

[kerouac9]

that's why I said we need to pressure him. The fact is the defense is ready right now, the offense isn't. That's on him to fix.

I think Whiz is a good coach but you can make the argument if he's not willing to fire friends that it will ultimately cost him his job. Promote Horton, hire a qualified guy to run the offense and draft for the offense.

Note, I'm not advocating that I like Whiz, I just think another year of an inept offense should be enough to push him to change it up.

Who's we? The fans? Whis doesn't care what the fans think. The front office? Michael Bidwill?

Not being willing to fire his friends is what likely will cost him his job. I think that Whis has two years left on his current contract: 2012 and 2013. I'm not sure how he gets through 2012 if we're bad without opening up negotiations, and his stock probably hasn't been higher than it is right now. He can walk away from this team and walk into somewhere else and probably have a better quarterback situation and offensive line.

 

[Goldfield]

Starts with good D. Then a good oline gives the offensive guys a chance to be productive. Last is a QB who is protecting the ball and making plays at times.

Were missing the good oline to this equation.

I am a big believer in BPA in the draft. But were so close to being a good team I would put every effort into the oline next year.

 

[Ronin]

 

[PrescottLooie]

Something else to consider re the 49'ers drafting is that during the years before Harbaugh they were usually drafting in the top 10 ! Plus, as I recall, Staley was their 2nd pick in the 1st round.