Bill Lewis is really mad.

[bankybruce]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr

The NFL says it is illegal. It may not be fair, but it is a fact. The players know that. This isn't some "secret" issue that no one knows about.

It also illegal to wear a bow tie in Mesa, but you do not see people getting arrested for it, now do you.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Originally posted by bankybruce
It also illegal to wear a bow tie in Mesa, but you do not see people getting arrested for it, now do you.

Haha....

I was going to post....

Yeah... the Taliban outlawed Kite flying because they saw no use for it. Look where that got them

 

[JeffGollin]

Lewis was also upset because the Cardinals apparently have known about this since before Camp and the suspicion is that the reason why they shifted Kendall to center and Spikes to guard was because of it. They didn't mention this to BL and MJ (like, yeah, they have to) - therefore, the source of some of the rage).

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Replacement

"Chris Sanders.....LOL, you are about as subtle as odiferous, excreted methane gas."

Sounds like Chris you're in line to take the place of Howard Stern aka FARTMAN.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sure Tango, I will comment. Let me explain to you where you are wrong in your statements:

#1 Ephedra isn't a performance enhancer. Saying that an athlete uses it as a performance enhancer is ignorant. It is a natural herb that can help in weight loss by acting as a mild stimulant. Korey Stringer died from heat stroke. One of the side effects of ephedra is dehydration. The NFL banned Ephedra SOLELY because of it's relation to heat exhaustion and heat stroke. It has NOTHING to do with any performance enhancing effect.

Here is a quote from ESPN.Com:

Before training camp opened in 2002, the NFL consulted with several experts and held a series of discussions and seminars on the subject. The league banned the herbal stimulant ephedra, and it began randomly testing players for it last summer after learning that dietary supplements increased the risk of heat-related illnesses.



#2 Ephedra is still found in many over the counter products because it is not banned by the FDA.

In fact, Ephedra can be found in many cold products because the stimulant acts as a counter to the drowsy effect that antihistamines produce. You most likely have taken Ephedra yourself unknowingly.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by bankybruce
It also illegal to wear a bow tie in Mesa, but you do not see people getting arrested for it, now do you.

I think maybe you had better take a mulligan on that one banky.
Now I have absolutely no idea whether it is actually illegal to wear a bowtie in Mesa, but even if it is. ..
If no one enforces it, then .."no harm, no foul"...simple as that.
Also if you don't get caught...again "no harm, no foul", or as someone once told me when I was growing up on the indian reservation, in regard to poaching deer...."It ain't illegal, if ya don't get caught."

 

[Ryanwb]

in regard to poaching deer...."It ain't illegal, if ya don't get caught."

What if it is a deer with Jake Plummer's face on it?

 

[cardagon7]

tango is right

I agree completely. Out of all the drugs to use, ephedra is one that ALL of the players know to stay away from. Please.....Is this the first time in Garcia's 9 year coureer that he had a cold and took OTC medication that contained ephedrine. I'm positive the subject of ephedra has come up in many locker rooms

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
What if it is a deer with Jake Plummer's face on it?

If you want to poach it, by all means...go for it.... be my guest. Don't let me cramp your style or hold you back in any way.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
IPersonally I think he was incredibly ignorant. Now he's gonna pay for it. C'est la vie.

But you must have never experienced a severe allergy attack.

Have you ever woken up and not been able to breathe? Have you ever woken up unable to open your eyes, because your sinuses have become so full that it excretes the mucus overload through your tear ducts?

The first few times, it's a blind panic.

I have and, from time-to-time, still do! It's an asthmatic reaction to the wonderful allergens (and smog) we have here in the Valley.

The one, and only, thing on your mind is finding immediate relief!

You don't read bottles, or look up a medicine's contents, you take what someone tells you works!

Imagine if he had been at my place, and used my some of my allergy medicine. He would have tested possitive for steriods instead!

I don't think that Garcia had symptoms so severe, but I'm sure they were bad enough to freak him out.

In my opinion, the real issue here is the NFL's double standard concerning drugs, both legal and illegal.

Garcia was singled out, in my mind, just like Jim Miller was a few years ago for steroids. That's why he wasn't allowed an appeal, just like Jim Miller.

Both cases were mistakes. But by not allowing any recourse, the NFl heirarchy looks like bad-asses with their zero-tolerence policy.

That is their ultimate goal.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Now to your opinion, which you are attempting to portray as fact:

"He took Ephedra knowingly."

To what end? As I have just shown you, it isn't a performance enhancer...it is a weight loss drug and a mild stimulant...roughly equivalent to caffeine. You say that he had to know that his wife's pills had Ephedra. Here is more on the Ephedra Ban

CBC News: Commercial ephedra/ephedrine products being sold as nasal decongestants and ephedra products marketed for traditional use, but don't contain caffeine, are still permitted in Canada.

As I said, you probably have consumed Ephedra yourself.

Hope that clears it all up for you....

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Re: tango is right

Originally posted by cardagon7
I agree completely. Out of all the drugs to use, ephedra is one that ALL of the players know to stay away from. Please.....Is this the first time in Garcia's 9 year coureer that he had a cold and took OTC medication that contained ephedrine. I'm positive the subject of ephedra has come up in many locker rooms

If he had taken the OTC allergy medicine one day earlier, or his random drug test had been one day later, he would have come up clean.

The timing is was what did him in.

 

[AndyO]

I have to agree with Tang here. Frank Garcia's career is , essentially, his body, what he puts into it, how he trains it. He knows that certain herbs/drugs are banned by the organization he work's for, the NFL. There has to be some responsibility on his part to know exactly what he is ingesting, it's his body , it's his career. If he did not look at the label to see what was in the supplement he took, OTC or not, he has to take the responsibility for the end result, ie his suspension. Whether ephedra should be banned or not, whether its dangerous or a performance enhancer or not, are all basically side issues. The NFL bans it. Frank Garcia knows, or should've known, that it was banned. He's got to take responsiblity for his own actions.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Re: tango is right

Originally posted by cardagon7
I agree completely. Out of all the drugs to use, ephedra is one that ALL of the players know to stay away from. Please.....Is this the first time in Garcia's 9 year coureer that he had a cold and took OTC medication that contained ephedrine. I'm positive the subject of ephedra has come up in many locker rooms

So they don't know to stay away from cocaine????

Garcia is wrong and needs to held accountable for his actions but to let cocaine users get a freebie is just stupid on the NFL's part.

 

[Ryanwb]

When asked for this thoughts on the subject, David Boston's response was:

"(Snnnnnniiiiiffffffffffffffff) No comment"

There you have it folks

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Again, what part of "Ephedra is still found in nasal decongestants" are you missing?

And I am certain that Frank Garcia, once informed of the fact that the antihistamine he took had Ephedra in it, would not have taken it again.

The issue that people were discussing is how STUPID it is that you can go snort cocaine and not get even a single game suspension...but by unwittingly taking a legal product, you can lose a quarter of your yearly income.

It is a foolish double standard.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Again, what part of "Ephedra is still found in nasal decongestants" are you missing?

And I am certain that Frank Garcia, once informed of the fact that the antihistamine he took had Ephedra in it, would not have taken it again.

The issue that people were discussing is how STUPID it is that you can go snort cocaine and not get even a single game suspension...but by unwittingly taking a legal product, you can lose a quarter of your yearly income.

It is a foolish double standard.

Here...here

yeeuppppp what he said!!

 

[JeffGollin]

Again, what part of "Ephedra is still found in nasal decongestants" are you missing?
The Eph part.

Or was it the edra? I forget.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Again, what part of "Ephedra is still found in nasal decongestants" are you missing?
The Eph part.

Or was it the edra? I forget.

Maybe it was F'edra

 

[Tangodnzr]

That's all well and good..... IF you buy Garcia's story.

I don't.

Enough with the excuses.

He knew what he was doing, and the chances he was taking. No matter how you slice this, he made some ignorant decisions.
They are HIS responsibility.

Again, like I said, it doesn't matter WHY the NFL did what they did.

They did it.

He knows the rule.

He broke it.

He got caught. Just like if you get caught driving drunk. The judge doesn't care WHY you did it. That doesn't change the fact that you violated the law.

Pay the piper and move on.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
That's all well and good..... IF you buy Garcia's story.

I don't.

Enough with the excuses.

He knew what he was doing, and the chances he was taking. No matter how you slice this, he made some ignorant decisions.
They are HIS responsibility.

Again, like I said, it doesn't matter WHY the NFL did what they did.

They did it.

He knows the rule.

He broke it.

He got caught. Just like if you get caught driving drunk. The judge doesn't care WHY you did it. That doesn't change the fact that you violated the law.

Pay the piper and move on.

I would imagine that this will be a hot topic in the owners meeting whenever that is. This is the rule for this year but that doesn't mean it doesn't need to be changed.

You can't tell me that laws don't change. This needs to change IMO.

The NFL needs to change their drug tolerance to any drug as equal across the board. DUI's as far as I am concerned go write along with that. Set the standard period.

You take ephedra,coke, pot, DUI, opium, speed, whatever first offense is the same plain and simple.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think that towel length rule is pretty ******** as well. There is a reason the NFL is often called the No Fun League...

 

[cardagon7]

cardinal ken

A "severe allergic reaction" would be a documented medical problem. An ambulance would have been called secondary to the airway being occluded. Please don't overdramatize his presentation. Sinuits or Allergies would have also been documented as a recuurent medical problem. I'm sorry this happened, now the whole team suffers. Please call a spade a spade

 

[Lars the Red]

Lewis' point is that the punishment/crime ratio is completely screwed up. He's right.


The concept that Ma Huang was the reason for Stringer or any other athlete died is moronic. They died for the simple reason they tried to take the lazy road when it comes to conditioning or performance. They showed up out of shape or lacking in ability and they thought a magic pill was the answer. Stringer was a fat slob who obviously didn't make any effort in the off season to prepare for camp, so he takes something to increase his energy and help him cut some weight and it turns out very bad. The same is true of the MLB pitcher who died. The Northwestern player had asthma and was looking for an edge. He made a big mistake.

The number of people that have taken and are taking this suppliment without ill-effects are massive. The number of people that die every year because of reactions to aspirin, peanut butter, alcohol are enormous, yet we don't sprint out and ban them as dangerous substances.

I take Ma Huang on occasion. I realize as an adult that I need to stay hydrated and not take more than the recommended amount. I learned a long time ago that just because a little of something is good doesn't mean a lot is better. The guys that had trouble with it had several factors working against then at the time of their deaths. The suppliment was only a part of a much greater problem.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by Lars the Red
Lewis' point is that the punishment/crime ratio is completely screwed up. He's right.
So what does that have to do with Garcia? A law or rule can be unjust or "screwed up" to the max. It's till the law, and getting caught breaking it usually carries penalties.
Garcia violating the rule and whether or not it is just of fair, are two entirely separate subjects.


The concept that Ma Huang was the reason for Stringer or any other athlete died is moronic.
No it's not "moronic". You yourself use examples to point out why.
They died for the simple reason they tried to take the lazy road when it comes to conditioning or performance. They showed up out of shape or lacking in ability and they thought a magic pill was the answer. Stringer was a fat slob who obviously didn't make any effort in the off season to prepare for camp, so he takes something to increase his energy and help him cut some weight and it turns out very bad. The same is true of the MLB pitcher who died. The Northwestern player had asthma and was looking for an edge. He made a big mistake.

The number of people that have taken and are taking this suppliment without ill-effects are massive.
As is the number of people who have driven legally drunk and nothing happened. So what is that supposed to prove?
The number of people that die every year because of reactions to aspirin, peanut butter, alcohol are enormous, yet we don't sprint out and ban them as dangerous substances.
I think you are getting a little carried away here Lars. There have been literally thousands of deaths directly attributable to Ephedra use. I willl be more than happy to docuement that. There are many, many knowledgable people who are, and have been trying to get tighter controls on Ephedrine, for quite some time. It is not as harmless as many people believe.

I take Ma Huang on occasion. I realize as an adult that I need to stay hydrated and not take more than the recommended amount. I learned a long time ago that just because a little of something is good doesn't mean a lot is better.
YOU are not in the NFL. YOU have no laws or rules that presently ban you from taking it. (mark my words though, you very well soon could see some much tighter controls on it)
The guys that had trouble with it had several factors working against then at the time of their deaths. The suppliment was only a part of a much greater problem.

No argument there. As you youself stated earlier, it would seem to be an offshoot of laziness, substituting a "miracle" pill for hard work coupled with the desire for instant resuts and gratification....among other things.
None of them too overly desireable in my book anyway.