Bitterness toward Kidd should end

azdad1978

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By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist

The days and years have caught up to Jason Kidd.
He'll be 35 years old in March, and he can see the sunset of his NBA career. It will end, most likely, with every honor accorded a player except the one he wants most — champion.

These days, Kidd is captain of the Titanic. The New Jersey Nets are 15-25 after their 113-105 loss to the Suns Sunday, and the only thing buried deeper in the Garden State is Jimmy Hoffa.

Richard Jefferson is out for the season with a wrist injury, Kenyon Martin is in Denver, and Vince Carter is doing what he always does — getting his numbers without helping his team.

Some players would give in to the hopelessness. Carter recently admitted he didn't always play hard while he was with the Toronto Raptors, and Tracy McGrady committed the same sin in Orlando.

There is no quit in Kidd, though.

Every night he pushes the ball, pushes his teammates, pushes himself, even though he'll probably miss the playoffs for the first time since the 1995-96 season, his second in the league.

On Sunday, Kidd had 23 points, eight assists and eight rebounds in 43 minutes of play. Typical numbers from an atypical player.

“There's no one else like Jason Kidd,” Nets coach Lawrence Frank told New Jersey-area reporters last week. When Kidd does retire, he should be remembered as one of the greatest point guards in NBA history. He may not have a championship ring to validate that judgment, but he led two less-than-stellar Nets teams to the NBA Finals, only to be vanquished by the Los Angeles Lakers and San Antonio Spurs.

The true measure of a point guard is whether he makes the players around him better, and few have done that as well as Kidd.

Even now, in his 11th season, Kidd remains the standard by which point guards are judged. Only Steve Nash belongs in the same sentence, their brilliance defined by their unselfishness as opposed to, say, Stephon Marbury.

Here in the Valley, however, Kidd still wears the black hat.

He was booed during player introductions Sunday. He was booed when he hit a 3-point shot. Fans cheered loudly when he was whistled for a foul.

“I didn't hear them too much,” Kidd said. “Applause, boos, it's just another arena and another city for me.”

For some, it seems, Kidd will forever be defined by the domestic violence incident with his wife, Joumana, in January 2001.

When the Suns traded him after the season it was believed to be because Jerry Colangelo didn't want a “wife-beater” in his employ.

In truth, Phoenix dealt Kidd because it didn't want to commit huge dollars to a 31-year-old point guard, preferring instead to go with the younger Marbury.

But the truth wasn't as sexy as the real story, however, so Kidd left as the bad guy.

Fences might have been mended sooner had Kidd desired. Instead, he ripped club president Bryan Colangelo because he heard of the trade not from the
Suns but on the radio. On a return engagement to America West Arena, he flipped off Suns fans as he walked off the court after a game. There was also his incessant and unnecessary criticism of former Phoenix coach Scott Skiles.

Kidd wouldn't let it die, so either have Suns fans.

But four years have passed. The bitterness — from both sides — needs to subside.

“It's time to bury the past and appreciate him for the contributions he made while he was a Phoenix Sun,” said Jerry Colangelo.

Phoenix was still suffering a hangover from the Charles Barkley years when it traded for Kidd in December 1996. He led the Suns to the playoffs that year and in each of the next four seasons and became, in the process, the league's pre-eminent point guard.

“The time I had here was great,” Kidd said.

So it was, and to honor Kidd, the Suns should extend a permanent peace offering upon his retirement.

He belongs in the Ring of Honor.

Some fans will object, their hot button still pushed by the domestic violence incident.

But if a player's personal life was the measure, Walter Davis wouldn't have been honored, and perhaps Barkley's number wouldn't hang from the rafters.

Kidd was a great Sun.

He deserves to be up there, too.


http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=35216
 

jibikao

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I thought Vince has been playing pretty well recently after Jefferson went down.

I don't like him but the amount of hatred he gets is quite amazing. LOL But when he said he didn't give his 100% to Raptor, I lose respect for him.
 

hsandhu

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Kidd will be 32, it took me 10 seconds to check this out. How can a columnist be so incompetent and not get this right?
 

elindholm

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Kidd in the Ring of Honor? ROFL, that's rich. Not a freaking chance. I'd rather see the Suns institute the Joumana Kidd "Say it With Silicone" award for the most ingratiatingly media-hungry player's wife.

Seriously, does this person even have a degree in journalism? "Kidd wouldn't let it die, so either have Suns fans." That's an elementary, junior high school level error.
 

Djaughe

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hsandhu said:
Kidd will be 32, it took me 10 seconds to check this out. How can a columnist be so incompetent and not get this right?

lol...maybe he mean't 35 in 2008? :shrug:
 

Cheesebeef

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I don't much here anymore, but I have to respond to something in the article that I found to be the most ludicrous statement ever made regarding the Suns. Putting Kidd in the Ring of Honor is an absolute JOKE - Players in the ring ofhinor are there because they helped the Suns achieve GREATNESS while they played hre and because of their impact on the team - Kidd's teams were constant playoff patsies and Kidd more often than not LOWERED his performance in the playoffs. Hell - the only year we advanced was because of Penny Hardaway and a 16 point explosion in the fourth quarter from Todd Day.

This article make sit sound like Jason was one of the true Phoenix greats - when in reality - he was one of the biggest dissapointments this team has ever had - his "leadership" couldn't get Dice to stay, he beat his freaking wife and then had the audacity to trip the Suns over it. The only "ring" Jason Kidd deserves to be in is the ring around the the toilet in Jerry Colangelo's toilet.

That article is a freaking joke and I for one will be insulted if Kidd is put in the ring. Charles made his amends with the Suns, but even when upset - he NEVER took it out on our fans - Jason Kidd dished it out TO EVERYONE.

I am freaking pissed about what was written in that article. The Jason Kidd Suns teams were the darkest days in team history for the last 18 years - a guaranteed weak 50 wins - and a pounding in the playoffs - yahoo - let's celebrate MEDIOCRITY!

Oh - on another note - LOVE the Jimmy Jackson trade - Casey Jacobsen was the WORST 6th man in the league for a contender and Lampe and Vroman were stiffs who couldn't get on the court. As far as Lampe's concerned - if the guy is ALL that talented - tell me, why did he drop ALL THE WAY out of the first round(and don't give me contract status crap - Big Jake had the same thing and we still took him 24th) AND has already been deemed USELESS by TWO teams.
 

Chaz

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I was a huge Kidd fan when he was with the Suns. I don't really even care that he slapped his wife.

However, his actions since his departure seem to reveal his true character.

I have good basketball memories of his time in Phoenix but I will never be a fan of his again.
 

SweetD

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Noway Kidd should be on the ring. What has he done? Kidd is only the 4th best assist leader for the Suns.
 

hsandhu

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It's funny, but now that the Nets suck, I can't hate Jason Kidd as much as I did, and I was the biggest Jason Kidd hater. Of course if he gets traded to a conteder I'll vehemenly root against him, and probably even hate him again. We can't have him win a title before us.

However, after he retires, if he burys the hatchet and takes back the stuff he said about the Suns and Phoenix, maybe realizing that he actually ended up in better situation for the first 3 years in New Jersey, his play as a Sun should put him in the ring of honor. Let's not forget the level of player he was here, making the all nba FIRST team 3 times straight years(99, 00, 01), even in '01 and '00 (laker championship years) ahead of kobe. He was a concensus top 5 player here for several years. However, like I said the responsibility lies soley on him to bury the hatchet, and not the Suns, because of the way he handled himself.
 
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sunsfn

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I was a Kidd fan when he was with the Suns.

What he did after he left Is why I no longer am a fan of his.
 

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cheesebeef said:
Oh - on another note - LOVE the Jimmy Jackson trade - Casey Jacobsen was the WORST 6th man in the league for a contender and Lampe and Vroman were stiffs who couldn't get on the court. As far as Lampe's concerned - if the guy is ALL that talented - tell me, why did he drop ALL THE WAY out of the first round(and don't give me contract status crap - Big Jake had the same thing and we still took him 24th) AND has already been deemed USELESS by TWO teams.

Not that it matters much, but I believe Lampe dropped out of the round strictly because of his contract situation overseas.
 

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hsandhu said:
However, after he retires, if he burys the hatchet

Jason kidd did bury the hatchet...right in the backs of the entire Phoenix suns organization and it's fans. This is the reason that I would never support Jason in the Ring of honor with the Suns and would be disapointed if he were ever considered. I was also a fan of Jason Kidd, I thought that he was a very good point guard and could have led the team to great things with the right players around him, and was disapointed when I heard that he was being traded for Marbury. When he became such an ASS after being traded, I lost all respect for him and will never root for anything good to happen to him again. A true adult would have put on a good face for the media and let the revenge be his play on the court but instead Jason showed his true colors. :wave:
 

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NickelBack said:
Isn't he the leader in assists per game?

maybe but he not is not even close for all time leader for the Suns.
 

Cheesebeef

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Chaplin said:
Not that it matters much, but I believe Lampe dropped out of the round strictly because of his contract situation overseas.

SOMEONE would have taken a chance if the guy had THAT much potential. Qe did with Jake and with the way people talk about Lampe here - you'd think he was Shaq to Jake's Chris Dudley.

Can he slip because of the contract? Sure - but falling as far as he did tells the contract wasn't the only thing.

Regardless - TWO teams have already given up on him - along with dropping out of the first round, the combo of the two doens't speak too highly of this suppsoed potential he has.
 

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cheesebeef said:
SOMEONE would have taken a chance if the guy had THAT much potential. Qe did with Jake and with the way people talk about Lampe here - you'd think he was Shaq to Jake's Chris Dudley.

Can he slip because of the contract? Sure - but falling as far as he did tells the contract wasn't the only thing.

Regardless - TWO teams have already given up on him - along with dropping out of the first round, the combo of the two doens't speak too highly of this suppsoed potential he has.
I thought the main reason why Lampe was drafted in the second round was because teams could offer him more salary than if he were a mid to late first round pick where salary range is already set. Lampe could then use the extra money to pay for his buyout, since there is a limit in how much teams can pay to buy players out.
 

cepstrum

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cheesebeef said:
I don't much here anymore, but I have to respond to something in the article that I found to be the most ludicrous statement ever made regarding the Suns. Putting Kidd in the Ring of Honor is an absolute JOKE - Players in the ring ofhinor are there because they helped the Suns achieve GREATNESS while they played hre and because of their impact on the team - Kidd's teams were constant playoff patsies and Kidd more often than not LOWERED his performance in the playoffs. Hell - the only year we advanced was because of Penny Hardaway and a 16 point explosion in the fourth quarter from Todd Day.

This article make sit sound like Jason was one of the true Phoenix greats - when in reality - he was one of the biggest dissapointments this team has ever had - his "leadership" couldn't get Dice to stay, he beat his freaking wife and then had the audacity to trip the Suns over it. The only "ring" Jason Kidd deserves to be in is the ring around the the toilet in Jerry Colangelo's toilet.

That article is a freaking joke and I for one will be insulted if Kidd is put in the ring. Charles made his amends with the Suns, but even when upset - he NEVER took it out on our fans - Jason Kidd dished it out TO EVERYONE.

I am freaking pissed about what was written in that article. The Jason Kidd Suns teams were the darkest days in team history for the last 18 years - a guaranteed weak 50 wins - and a pounding in the playoffs - yahoo - let's celebrate MEDIOCRITY!

Cheese, I haven't agreed with a lot of your posts in the past, but you hit the nail on this one. How does this clown get paid to write this BS. I would've been more than happy to support Kidd after he was traded, but all the ungrateful bastard did was complain about Phoenix, flip off the fans, and talk smack about Skiles.

But all that aside, even if he hadn't done all of that Im not sure he'd deserve ring of honor consideration. Consideration for what? 5 consecutive first round exists (with the exception of the Duncan-less spurs)
 

Joe Mama

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elindholm said:
Kidd in the Ring of Honor? ROFL, that's rich. Not a freaking chance. I'd rather see the Suns institute the Joumana Kidd "Say it With Silicone" award for the most ingratiatingly media-hungry player's wife.

Seriously, does this person even have a degree in journalism? "Kidd wouldn't let it die, so either have Suns fans." That's an elementary, junior high school level error.

LMAO! I love it. I don't even want to guess what kind of award you could come up with that would be fitting for their child, TJ. I almost fell out of my chair laughing, and you know that isn't easy for me.

cheesebeef said:
I don't much here anymore, but I have to respond to something in the article that I found to be the most ludicrous statement ever made regarding the Suns. Putting Kidd in the Ring of Honor is an absolute JOKE - Players in the ring ofhinor are there because they helped the Suns achieve GREATNESS while they played hre and because of their impact on the team - Kidd's teams were constant playoff patsies and Kidd more often than not LOWERED his performance in the playoffs. Hell - the only year we advanced was because of Penny Hardaway and a 16 point explosion in the fourth quarter from Todd Day.

Well, I wouldn't discredit Jason Kidd's play here like that. I have always contended that when that '99-00 team was healthy it was the best team in the NBA. Jason Kidd returned from a severe ankle injury or broken foot (can't remember) towards the end of that San Antonio series. They had also lost Tom Gugliotta with his knee injury.

Many of you who have been here for a while will remember that I complained frequently about Jason Kidd. Kidd was a great player, but his inability to shoot the ball drove me nuts. That said, I do think if you took that Jason Kidd from 5-6 years ago and put him on this current Suns team they would be about as good. They might not score quite as many points, but their defense would be better.

cheesebeef said:
- his "leadership" couldn't get Dice to stay, he beat his freaking wife and then had the audacity to trip the Suns over it. The only "ring" Jason Kidd deserves to be in is the ring around the the toilet in Jerry Colangelo's toilet.

This and Eric's line about the award for Mrs. Kidd had me in tears with laughter. while I wouldn't say Jason Kidd was a "disappointment" there's no way in hell he belongs in the Ring of Honor. I know Charles Barkley was a jackass when he was traded, but Jason Kidd was much, much worse. The guy actually had the nerve to blame Scott Skiles and the organization for his domestic problems. He couldn't help but beat his wife because of the negative environment with the Phoenix Suns. Give me a break.

The other day there was a short article in the Tribune that I thought was one of the best Phoenix Suns articles I had read in a long time. This might be the worst not written by Gambo. At least he pointed out that the Suns did not trade Jason Kidd because of him beating his wife. the author said it was because the Suns were not willing to give him a big contract extension. That may be true, but I still believe the biggest reason they traded him was that they knew he would not re-sign with the team because they had no shot at a championship.

What a lame article that was.

Joe Mama
 

jibikao

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Guys, all this Kidd-trash talk is very interesting. Like I said, I've only become a Suns fan this year because of Nash and I really thought that many people "hated" this Nash Trade because they believe(d) Nash is no Kidd and giving him 6-year-contract is insane.

Well, I NEVER like Kidd. I've always thought he is overrated. Well, the reason I think he is overrated is that people always label him as the Top Pg, Top 5 Players, and One of the Best in the history of NBA. His price becomes REALLY high. I am not sure why Nets doesn't have better players or why Suns didn't have more good players to accompany him, but maybe his HIGH PRICE forbidded the team from signing decent players? Just like many people think Nash's accomplishment in Suns is because of all those talend young players like Amare, Marion, and JJ, not because of Nash's leadership ability.

So my question is: Is Nash "cheap" in comparions to Kidd? Now that's a great question because even if 99% of the people think Kidd is better, Nash's cheaper price will allow the team to sign better teammates for Nash and in the end the team flourishes as a whole, not as individuals. This may also mean that Kidd is overrated and Nash "was" underrated before he joined Suns.

I hope this is not too complicated. Do you understand my question? hehe
 
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jibikao

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I am curious because there was a trade talk between Dirk + Nash for Shaq. Are Dirk and Nash really that underrated?? lol

Dirk can hold the team just as good as KG and Duncan and this year proves that. And Nash... well, need I say more?
 

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jibikao said:
I am curious because there was a trade talk between Dirk + Nash for Shaq. Are Dirk and Nash really that underrated?? lol

Dirk can hold the team just as good as KG and Duncan and this year proves that. And Nash... well, need I say more?

First of all, when Jason Kidd was playing for the Phoenix Suns his yearly salary was about $6 million. He had a one-year extension I believe, but I don't think the Suns ever paid it. I think that was his first season with New Jersey. It might have been his second season with them though. I can't remember.

The Suns couldn't build a great team around Jason Kidd because they had Tom Gugliotta's and Penny Hardaway's contracts. Originally they had planned to re-sign Antonio McDyess and get a big-time free-agent like Scottie Pippen to join Jason Kidd, but the lockout and subsequent CBA screwed that up. Then of course Antonio McDyess left, and the Suns signed Googs.

Jason Kidd was as much to blame for the Hardaway signing as the Phoenix Suns management. He went to them and really pushed for Hardaway. That said, I don't blame Jason Kidd for the bad signing. The Suns management should have known better because of Hardaway's knee problems. But certainly I don't consider JK a victim. The same thing goes for the situation he is in now. He wanted them to get rid of Keith Van Horn and bring in Mutombo. That was a disaster. Then he demanded they sign Alonzo mourning, and that was a horrible decision. If not for those and a few other terrible moves I think they would have matched Martin's contract commands. I don't feel sorry for Jason Kidd one bit.

I also think Dirk Nowitzki is not on the same level as KG and Tim Duncan. Those two are much better than him because they are great defenders.

Joe Mama
 

baltimorer

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When Kidd was here, I often complained about his inability to shoot a jumpshot consistently; I questioned his supreme status because he never got the team out of the first round of the playoffs; I was surprised and put off by his domestic dispute.

All of that said, at the height of his career, he was unquestionably the best point guard in the NBA because night in and night out, he brought everything he had, and in the process he made his teamates better. Think about that 2000 team that Penny got to the second round while Kidd was nursing a broken ankle (it was ankle, Joe). His main inside presence was Jake Tsakalidis, with Oliver Miller traveling back and forth from America West Arena to the Paradise Valley Fat Camp. At 6'10, Cliff Robinson spent more time outside than a claustraphobic Steve Kerr, and while Rodney Rogers played some time in the post, he was barely 6'8 and could have benefitted from accompanying his body Oliver to camp each night.

Jason Kidd couldn't shoot very well, but his shooting deficiencies were magnified by the fact that, when that team wasn't running, we were a jump-shooting team. You can't really blame the fact that that team never advanced past the first round on Kidd. Even when Penny led the team past the Spurs, it was against a Tim Duncan-less Spurs who still had a better inside presence than the Suns with David Robinson and Malik Rose. If you add Antonio McDyse to that team (which is feasible, considering the Colangelos took McDyse's money and gave it to Googs; then Randy Livingston pulled a Tonya Harding on his left knee) I'm fairly certain they would've won the championship.

You also say Kidd is at fault for the Penny signing. Obviously, there were warning signs, but Penny Hardaway was the top free agent of the '99 offseason, and the Suns had the money. How was Jason Kidd, or anybody, supposed to know that, while Penny was dominating the league and leading the Suns without Kidd, would get Tonya Hardinged by Malik Rose? Kidd also could not have known that Googs was going to have his career basically ended, and he probably did not foresee Danny Ainge picking Mormanism over Coaching. Then, he led the 2001 Suns, who had a 2 guard rotation of Tony Delk and Mario Elie with Jake Tsakalidis holding down the paint and tripping over himself in the process, to a 51 win season and a Game 1 upset in Sacremento.
 

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I just heard JC on the radio.

Someone asked him if he would honestly put JK in the ROH and he said something along the lines of

"I read in some paper that some writer wrote a story about it." He went on to basically say no way without saying no way. He cited we already have more ROH members than most teams, and if anything did happen it would be a long long time before it did.


Another highlight was when he was asked what he took from the SA game.

"What I took out of it was that Ginobili is as fine of an Argentinan/Italian basketball player there was, and I definitely wish he was on our roster"
 

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baltimorer said:
All of that said, at the height of his career, he was unquestionably the best point guard in the NBA because night in and night out, he brought everything he had, and in the process he made his teamates better.

Im not sure that people are questioning his skills. The guy was without a doubt one of the best, if not the best pt guard in the league. The question is whether or not he deserves to be in the Ring of Honor. For all of his skills, his teams were out in the first round every single time except once (whether that was his fault or managements fault for failing to put better players around him is kind of a mute point since no one asks those questions) . Based on that fact alone, the Ring of Honor question isn't even a question anymore. Add to that the fact that he cursed out phoenix and the fans every chance he got, and the answer is a resounding NO!

baltimorer said:
If you add Antonio McDyse to that team (which is feasible, considering the Colangelos took McDyse's money and gave it to Googs; then Randy Livingston pulled a Tonya Harding on his left knee) I'm fairly certain they would've won the championship.

Come on!!! McDyess was really good, but that year was all about Shaq and the Lakers. Hell no we wouldnt have beaten them, as much as I hate to admit it.
 

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