Bitterness toward Kidd should end

[arthurracoon]

If Kidd got into the ring of honor (which will never happen), he'd get booed during the ceremony.

 

[jibikao]

First of all, when Jason Kidd was playing for the Phoenix Suns his yearly salary was about $6 million. He had a one-year extension I believe, but I don't think the Suns ever paid it. I think that was his first season with New Jersey. It might have been his second season with them though. I can't remember.

The Suns couldn't build a great team around Jason Kidd because they had Tom Gugliotta's and Penny Hardaway's contracts. Originally they had planned to re-sign Antonio McDyess and get a big-time free-agent like Scottie Pippen to join Jason Kidd, but the lockout and subsequent CBA screwed that up. Then of course Antonio McDyess left, and the Suns signed Googs.

Jason Kidd was as much to blame for the Hardaway signing as the Phoenix Suns management. He went to them and really pushed for Hardaway. That said, I don't blame Jason Kidd for the bad signing. The Suns management should have known better because of Hardaway's knee problems. But certainly I don't consider JK a victim. The same thing goes for the situation he is in now. He wanted them to get rid of Keith Van Horn and bring in Mutombo. That was a disaster. Then he demanded they sign Alonzo mourning, and that was a horrible decision. If not for those and a few other terrible moves I think they would have matched Martin's contract commands. I don't feel sorry for Jason Kidd one bit.

I also think Dirk Nowitzki is not on the same level as KG and Tim Duncan. Those two are much better than him because they are great defenders.

Joe Mama

Oh... I see so Kidd always pushes his management to sign this and sign that?? How come a player has that much to say? Isn't signing the management's job and not Kidd's? What would Kidd do if they don't sign the people they want? Kidd would threaten them to leave the team? LOL

Well, instead of blaming on the teammates, maybe he should blame himself first. I've never heard Nash blaming on his teammates before. He may not be happy with someone but he knows his job is to play games, not to get political with the management people. I guess that's where Kidd's reputation comes in.


As for Dirk, sorry.. he may not have as good defense as Duncan and KG but neither of them can guard Dirk. Dirk has superior offense than those two. I hear this argument sooooo many times. Almost nobody can guard Dirk when he plays well and Dirk has always performed better than KG in playoffs. Duncan may be a bit better than Dirk but I think Dirk's defense has really stepped up this year. I watched quite a few Mavs games and he actually stole the ball from Kobe from the perimeter and dunk it! lol Dirk, at 7'1, already has the defense advantage on the board so as long as he gets the defensive rebound, which he is ranked #2 in NBA this year, it's good enough for me. Looking at how horrible our defensive rebound is (Amare!!), I don't think Dirk's defense is worse than Amare. lol But when Amare gets the ball inside, WATCH OUT!

 

[Gee!]

If Kidd got into the ring of honor (which will never happen), he'd get booed during the ceremony.

LMAO .. That is true.

 

[Gee!]

As for Dirk, sorry.. he may not have as good defense as Duncan and KG but neither of them can guard Dirk. Dirk has superior offense than those two. I hear this argument sooooo many times. Almost nobody can guard Dirk when he plays well and Dirk has always performed better than KG in playoffs. Duncan may be a bit better than Dirk but I think Dirk's defense has really stepped up this year. I watched quite a few Mavs games and he actually stole the ball from Kobe from the perimeter and dunk it! lol Dirk, at 7'1, already has the defense advantage on the board so as long as he gets the defensive rebound, which he is ranked #2 in NBA this year, it's good enough for me. Looking at how horrible our defensive rebound is (Amare!!), I don't think Dirk's defense is worse than Amare. lol But when Amare gets the ball inside, WATCH OUT!

Dirk aint that good man. Sorry.

 

[arthurracoon]

If Kidd got into the ring of honor (which will never happen), he'd get booed during the ceremony.

Oh yeah, I forgot, when he addresses the crowd, he would give them the one finger salute and call Phoenix a cow town, or whatever he said.

 

[arthurracoon]

Oh yeah, I forgot, when he addresses the crowd, he would give them the one finger salute and call Phoenix a cow town, or whatever he said.

oh yeah, and when asked about the fans booing, he would proclaim:

"I Don't Give a Rat's @$$!!!"

 

[Joe Mama]

Oh... I see so Kidd always pushes his management to sign this and sign that?? How come a player has that much to say? Isn't signing the management's job and not Kidd's? What would Kidd do if they don't sign the people they want? Kidd would threaten them to leave the team? LOL

In New Jersey that's exactly what he did with Alonzo mourning. he told them that he would not re-sign unless they signed Alonzo mourning as well. The season before he started complaining in the press then went to the management and told them they needed to make changes to get tougher. I'm not sure if Mutombo's name specifically came up, but I don't doubt it one bit. Remember that even then they were doing everything they could to keep him happy, so he would re-sign.

In the summer of 1999 he went to the Colangelos and told them what a great idea would be to go after Penny Hardaway. I wish I could find some articles from around that signing because I could swear that the Colangelos had said they really weren't looking at Hardaway before that. Then of course JK played a big part in recruiting him. But remember, I said that the Colangelos should not have signed him. Ultimately it's their faults, and for the first year it looked like a pretty good signing.

As for Dirk, sorry.. he may not have as good defense as Duncan and KG but neither of them can guard Dirk. Dirk has superior offense than those two. I hear this argument sooooo many times. Almost nobody can guard Dirk when he plays well and Dirk has always performed better than KG in playoffs. Duncan may be a bit better than Dirk but I think Dirk's defense has really stepped up this year. I watched quite a few Mavs games and he actually stole the ball from Kobe from the perimeter and dunk it! lol Dirk, at 7'1, already has the defense advantage on the board so as long as he gets the defensive rebound, which he is ranked #2 in NBA this year, it's good enough for me. Looking at how horrible our defensive rebound is (Amare!!), I don't think Dirk's defense is worse than Amare. lol But when Amare gets the ball inside, WATCH OUT!

Dirk Nowitzki might be a little bit better offensively than KG, but KG is better in every other facet of the game. I wouldn't say that Dirk's offense is better than Tim Duncan's as much as I would say it is different. Dirk is a shooter and a slasher primarily while TD is one of the best low post players in the game.

Defensively there's no comparison. Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan are both amongst the best defensive forwards in the NBA. Dirk Nowitzki, if he has improved, is average at best. Before this supposed improvement he was a piss poor defender.

No GM in his right mind would take Dirk Nowitzki over Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett.

Joe Mama

 

[jibikao]

In New Jersey that's exactly what he did with Alonzo mourning. he told them that he would not re-sign unless they signed Alonzo mourning as well. The season before he started complaining in the press then went to the management and told them they needed to make changes to get tougher. I'm not sure if Mutombo's name specifically came up, but I don't doubt it one bit. Remember that even then they were doing everything they could to keep him happy, so he would re-sign.

In the summer of 1999 he went to the Colangelos and told them what a great idea would be to go after Penny Hardaway. I wish I could find some articles from around that signing because I could swear that the Colangelos had said they really weren't looking at Hardaway before that. Then of course JK played a big part in recruiting him. But remember, I said that the Colangelos should not have signed him. Ultimately it's their faults, and for the first year it looked like a pretty good signing.




Dirk Nowitzki might be a little bit better offensively than KG, but KG is better in every other facet of the game. I wouldn't say that Dirk's offense is better than Tim Duncan's as much as I would say it is different. Dirk is a shooter and a slasher primarily while TD is one of the best low post players in the game.

Defensively there's no comparison. Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan are both amongst the best defensive forwards in the NBA. Dirk Nowitzki, if he has improved, is average at best. Before this supposed improvement he was a piss poor defender.

No GM in his right mind would take Dirk Nowitzki over Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett.

Joe Mama

I would take Dirk!! hehe. Dirk has improved his low post game a lot more this season 'cause Nash is no longer there setting him up as a shooter. If you watch Dirk's game outside of NBA, he is probably the best of all. One of the reasons why US Team suffered so much in Olympic games is that we had no great shooters - shooters who can create his own shots. Dirk is the best at that and that's why when he plays outside of NBA he is unstoppable. Remember that game between Germany and US? Dirk out shines any of the US player and almost won the game if it weren't for AI's lucky shot. For a guy his size, he is very fast and skillful.

I won't take KG over Dirk yet. Duncan, maybe, because Duncan has proven that he can win championships but not KG. You have to do A LOT of persuasion to show that KG is better than Dirk in the post season. KG can have all the stats he wants but when Dirk steps up, nobody can stop him. That's what I like about Dirk because he is so unguardable. While KG may be good at defense, he can't guard Dirk. In fact, KG always lights up Dirk. And the same goes to Duncan. KG probably guards Dirk better than Duncan does because Duncan is not a very good perimeter defender and Duncan always chooses to stay in the paint.

I wonder if Mavs would trade Dirk for KG.... good question.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Mavs would do it in a second.

I am sure when you take off your homer glasses you will see he is a definite step below Kg and TD

 

[Joe Mama]

Mavs would do it in a second.

I am sure when you take off your homer glasses you will see he is a definite step below Kg and TD

no kidding. I would go so far as to say that if we could swap KG and Dirk right now the Mavericks would win the championship.

BTW how long do we have to wait for some of the people who were singing the praises of Erick Dampier to admit they were wrong about him? Actually it's more so that those of us who predicted he would be right back to his old form were right.

Joe Mama

 

[cepstrum]

BTW how long do we have to wait for some of the people who were singing the praises of Erick Dampier to admit they were wrong about him? Actually it's more so that those of us who predicted he would be right back to his old form were right.

Well he has another 7 years to try and get back to his old form and its only gonna cost the Mavs 70 mill

 

[frdbtr]

I would take Dirk!! hehe. Dirk has improved his low post game a lot more this season 'cause Nash is no longer there setting him up as a shooter. If you watch Dirk's game outside of NBA, he is probably the best of all. One of the reasons why US Team suffered so much in Olympic games is that we had no great shooters - shooters who can create his own shots. Dirk is the best at that and that's why when he plays outside of NBA he is unstoppable. Remember that game between Germany and US? Dirk out shines any of the US player and almost won the game if it weren't for AI's lucky shot. For a guy his size, he is very fast and skillful.

I won't take KG over Dirk yet. Duncan, maybe, because Duncan has proven that he can win championships but not KG. You have to do A LOT of persuasion to show that KG is better than Dirk in the post season. KG can have all the stats he wants but when Dirk steps up, nobody can stop him. That's what I like about Dirk because he is so unguardable. While KG may be good at defense, he can't guard Dirk. In fact, KG always lights up Dirk. And the same goes to Duncan. KG probably guards Dirk better than Duncan does because Duncan is not a very good perimeter defender and Duncan always chooses to stay in the paint.

I wonder if Mavs would trade Dirk for KG.... good question.

Dirk is a great player and I am sure that any team in the NBA would be happy to have him but he was not the only reason that Germany nearly beat the US. This is all my opinion but one of the first reasons that the US struggled in International ball was because Stephan Marbury doesn't have the first clue on how to beat a Zone defense. His offense includes setting up his drives by hitting outside shots and when his outside shot isn't falling, he can't get into the paint to pitch to outside shooters. Which in turn keeps all of the rest of his team mates uninvolved when his own offense is struggleing. Second and nearly as important, is Larry Brown did a horrible job in coaching the USA team last year, he wouldn't play any of his younger players (anyone heard of Amare Stoudemire (sp?)). Frankly if Brown had coached better and USA basketball had convinced someone else to play point guard for the USA, then we would have won gold again. How can teams who have maybe 1 good nba caliber player on it beat Teams with all of the talent that we had on it? Bad coaching and worse guard play is my opinion.

 

[jibikao]

Joe Mama,

I am not so sure if Mavs would trade for KG THAT QUICK. I think to trade for KG, you also need to change your team's structure a bit. I already post a question like this on a Mavs board and am curious to find out what people think.


As for US team, well, sadly I didn't watch any single game except for some parts of that German game. I think the loss is very embarrasing because those US players are the HIGHEST paid basketball players in the world. We are not talking about a few bucks more. We are talking about millions of dollars!!

I think it's unfair to blame NBA because those players don't play together until the summer before Olympics and many of them have already played 82 games or even more if their teams went to playoff.

It's unfair but when you advertise that We Are The BEST Basketball League In The World, you are expecting tons of expectations in international games. Because to prove that you are the World's #1 League, you need to win any game, ANYWHERE, not just in USA and sadly we sucked.

Your argument that Marbury can't create for others and break through the zone is a perfect example why I think Dirk is sooooo valuable. That's exactly the reason why I see tons of values in Dirk because being a 7 footer, he is NOT SLOW and he can post up and he can score in almost anyway he likes. He will torture the zone for USA if he was on the team. Dirk may even be the MVP on that team if he plays. He's shooting will force the opponents to break up their zone and free up tons of space for other players. His height and quickness will create the most deadly mis-match in the game. While Dirk isn't a defense-oriented player, his height and speed will make sure he is an average defender which is good enough for me. I don't know why people keep saying the only reason Dirk is inferior to KG/Duncan is because Dirk can't play tough defense. Well, if that's the case, then I can say Duncan/KG are inferior to Dirk because Dirk can shoot from 3pt really well and almost nobody can block his little fade away shot.

Well, we'll see how well KG leads his team in the playoff this year. I am sure Duncan will lead well.


Marbury... let Nash make a statement tonight!!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

if kidd ever makes the ring i'll vomit.


didn't play here long enough. didn't take the team to any new heights. didn't create a craze about the team. contributed genes to the largest-headed baby ever.

 

[Joe Mama]

if kidd ever makes the ring i'll vomit.


didn't play here long enough. didn't take the team to any new heights. didn't create a craze about the team. contributed genes to the largest-headed baby ever.

I definitely agree that he doesn't in the Ring of Honor,, but he was probably here long enough to make it. I don't feel like looking it up right now to tell you the truth. However I'll bet he was in Phoenix as long as Dan Majerle or certainly longer than Charles Barkley.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Might as well put Robert Horry and Mario Elie up there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I definitely agree that he doesn't in the Ring of Honor,, but he was probably here long enough to make it. I don't feel like looking it up right now to tell you the truth. However I'll bet he was in Phoenix as long as Dan Majerle or certainly longer than Charles Barkley.

Joe Mama

that's not my point. i think you can make it in off one of those things:

1. accomplishment (like barkley's mvp or getting the team to the finals, or tc helping to resurrect the franchise)

2. making an impact like changing the course of the franchise's history

3. longevity (if you were a sun for like 10 years)

i agree that you can be in the ring with less years, but in that case you have to meet 1 or 2.

i don't think kidd's accomplishments/impact for/on the franchise were ring of honor-impressive and minus those his longevity doesn't mark him as a quintessential phoenix sun. does that make more sense?

 

[newfan101]

2. making an impact like changing the course of the franchise's history

I guess that would qualify Rick Robey.

 

[Joe Mama]

that's not my point. i think you can make it in off one of those things:

1. accomplishment (like barkley's mvp or getting the team to the finals, or tc helping to resurrect the franchise)

2. making an impact like changing the course of the franchise's history

3. longevity (if you were a sun for like 10 years)

i agree that you can be in the ring with less years, but in that case you have to meet 1 or 2.

i don't think kidd's accomplishments/impact for/on the franchise were ring of honor-impressive and minus those his longevity doesn't mark him as a quintessential phoenix sun. does that make more sense?

that makes sense. I can definitely agree with that.

Joe Mama

 

[AZZenny]

Steve Nash has already made a better case to be put in the Ring of Honor than Kidd.