Blame Charles Bidwill Jr.

[cardpa]

A fun little read.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/14/...te=1&user_id=982960a09a01a842d5bc4e14cffb9843

 

[pemory09]

Great read—many thanks for the heads up cardpa! Personally, I’d love to see the Cards/Michael Bidwill graciously lead an effort to award the 1925 title to Pottsville as I’m sure it would mean a lot to the town and region. It would be a very kind thing to do and why not do so? It’s not as though any of us who live and die with the Cards brag about or even care that they’re officially listed as NFL Champions for 1925. In other words, there’s really no downside to seeing that Pottsville is recognized. Perhaps the 100-year anniversary (2025) would be an ideal time for this to happen.

 

[pemory09]

By the way, is Charles Bidwill, Jr. the one and the same Stormy Bidwill?

 

[juza76]

By the way, is Charles Bidwill, Jr. the one and the same Stormy Bidwill?

Just a question about every franchises
Why an ownership can't be relieved after decades of failures?

 

[TheCardinal]

By the way, is Charles Bidwill, Jr. the one and the same Stormy Bidwill?

Yes

 

[TheCardinal]

Great read—many thanks for the heads up cardpa! Personally, I’d love to see the Cards/Michael Bidwill graciously lead an effort to award the 1925 title to Pottsville as I’m sure it would mean a lot to the town and region. It would be a very kind thing to do and why not do so? It’s not as though any of us who live and die with the Cards brag about or even care that they’re officially listed as NFL Champions for 1925. In other words, there’s really no downside to seeing that Pottsville is recognized. Perhaps the 100-year anniversary (2025) would be an ideal time for this to happen.

No, Pottsville broke the rules. They get nothing.

One the eve of the NFCCG in Charlotte, I asked Michael Bidwill if he would make any comments about Pottsville at the trophy ceremony should we advance to the Super Bowl. He scoffed at the notion. I am aware of what happened the following day, but no, I don’t believe in such superstitions.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

No, Pottsville broke the rules. They get nothing.

One the eve of the NFCCG in Charlotte, I asked Michael Bidwill if he would make any comments about Pottsville at the trophy ceremony should we advance to the Super Bowl. He scoffed at the notion. I am aware of what happened the following day, but no, I don’t believe in such superstitions.

hi! Say, do you still run that cardinals website? I really enjoyed that when i was younger

 

[splitsecond]

this thread is supposed to happen after we are eliminated not before, are you across the international date line?

 

[Western Font]

Maybe this has been noted, but I only now realized that Pottsville’s team was named the Maroons, and the Cardinals are named as such because original owner O’Brien said the faded U of Chicago uniforms he bought for the team “weren’t maroon but Cardinal red.”

I can’t pretend to truly care about the 1925 title but Pottsville beat the Cardinals head-to-head, after which the Maroons were suspended for an illegal exhibition game and the Cards played two more games to finish 1.5 games up. Some championship…

Despite being the longest-tenured owners in the NFL, the Bidwills didn’t own the team until four years later. I’d think they’d be more interested in playing up the 1947 and only “real” title the franchise has. Or we could win this year and focus on that

 

[Jetstream Green]

No, Pottsville broke the rules. They get nothing.

One the eve of the NFCCG in Charlotte, I asked Michael Bidwill if he would make any comments about Pottsville at the trophy ceremony should we advance to the Super Bowl. He scoffed at the notion. I am aware of what happened the following day, but no, I don’t believe in such superstitions.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[THESMEL]

Well not quite 100 years but I was impressed with the trophy made out of coal at the hall of fame. Up to the NFL who gets the championship, but should put out a public statement, recognizing that Pottsville kicked The Cardinals AZ in 1925! Exhibition illegal game was against a college team, which was stronger then pro then! be kind of cool to see a national championship team game against and NFL squad, I’d pay to see it.

best college champion against worst record in the NFL for the year. stuperbowl!

haven’t heard the Cardinal fair and square fight song in a minute. Still bugs me that Jewelry Jerry Jones got in the hall of fame, he never faced extinction, or had to sacrifice like other owners to keep the NFL afloat. I mean Jones bought a famous championship team that had made the playoffs for almost 30 years! Big accomplishment was build a stadium! Like big whoop, cardinals were travelers, never had their own stadium, ever until UP!

more proof if you hang with popular nfln crowd, you get in the HOF before others that deserve it more.

 

[TheCardinal]

hi! Say, do you still run that cardinals website? I really enjoyed that when i was younger

Thank you — I do still run it! It is kept alive mostly as a repository of historical information, though I give it token updates throughout the season and still run a picks competition through it. It survives as a relic from the mid-1990s!

 

[THESMEL]

Charles W. Bidwill, Sr. | Pro Football Hall of Fame

www.profootballhof.com

 

[TheCardinal]

There are a few errors in the NYT article.

The NFL clearly prohibited Pottsville from playing the game against the former college all-stars. Money was FAR more important than any trophy and the Frankford Yellow Jackets had every right to protest. Their gate took a massive hit when the Pottsville exhibition was moved from their tiny stadium to a larger field in Philadelphia, encroaching on Frankford’s territorial rights (they were based in a Philly suburb). Pottsville happily took the bigger payday knowing the potential repercussions. They later claimed that “someone” who answered the phone at the league office gave the OK. Right.

The Charles Bidwill, Jr. cited in the article would be Michael’s uncle (Bill Bidwill’s older brother), nicknamed Stormy. Not Michael’s grandfather who died in 1947 (Sr. is the one in the HOF). Last I checked Charles “Stormy” Bidwill, Jr. was still alive, in his 90s in Chicago. He is the one who made a comment in the 1960s about never giving that championship to that “hick team.” Maybe the “curse” will end with him, though he has not been affiliated with the team since Bill bought him out in 1972.

I have the 1946 and 1947 media guides and they DO claim the 1925 championship (before winning it in 1947) putting a dent in their cute little story about being cursed.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Well not quite 100 years but I was impressed with the trophy made out of coal at the hall of fame. Up to the NFL who gets the championship, but should put out a public statement, recognizing that Pottsville kicked The Cardinals AZ in 1925! Exhibition illegal game was against a college team, which was stronger then pro then! be kind of cool to see a national championship team game against and NFL squad, I’d pay to see it.

best college champion against worst record in the NFL for the year. stuperbowl!

haven’t heard the Cardinal fair and square fight song in a minute. Still bugs me that Jewelry Jerry Jones got in the hall of fame, he never faced extinction, or had to sacrifice like other owners to keep the NFL afloat. I mean Jones bought a famous championship team that had made the playoffs for almost 30 years! Big accomplishment was build a stadium! Like big whoop, cardinals were travelers, never had their own stadium, ever until UP!

more proof if you hang with popular nfln crowd, you get in the HOF before others that deserve it more.

They used to it ended in 1975. NFL champs played a college all-star team. Preseason and if I'm not mistaken it was played in Canton during Hof weekend.

 

[cardpa]

Maybe the curse is actually on the Bidwills and not the team per say for refusing to give the trophy back to Pottsville and as long as the Bidwill family owns the team it will never, ever win a championship. Pottsville is also where Yuengling beer is brewed. America's oldest brewery.

Did you also know that Art Rooney supported Pottsville's claim to the 1925 Championship, while his family and successors have continued to do so following Art's death in 1988.

In 1967, the NFL created a special committee to investigate the 1925 controversy. The committee brought the Maroon's claim to a team owners meeting that year, where the owners voted 12-2 in favor of keeping the championship with the Chicago Cardinals.


Pottsville did not give up hope easily. The fight for the title continued all the way to 2003, when Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell met with NFL officials to discuss the Maroon's title hopes prior to the 2003 owner's meeting. The owners promptly voted 30-2 against even discussing the matter at the meeting. The only two owners that voted in favor of the measure were from the Philadelphia Eagles and the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Here is another more in depth story about the Maroons which I believe to be historically accurate.
https://pabook.libraries.psu.edu/li...ture-articles/stolen-glory-pottsville-maroons

 

[TheCardinal]

Only the current Pennsylvania teams voted to give the championship to Pottsville — probably out of geographic loyalty. I believe it was the Steelers who claimed a flimsy connection to the Frankford franchise and tried to rescind “their” protest from many years ago (after Frankford folded, the Eagles were created to take their spot, and later the Eagles and Pirates/Steelers owners swapped teams — not to be confused with their wartime Steagles merger).

If you want dirty dealings, check out how the Bears/Staleys stole the 1921 championship from the Buffalo All-Americans. No one is clamoring to give the title to that Buffalo squad and the Bears have won plenty of championships since.

 

[TheCardinal]

The 1947 championship was under the leadership of Michael Bidwill’s grandmother, Violet, so the Bidwill family has won one title. Admittedly, it has been awhile!

 

[TheCardinal]

Maybe the curse is actually on the Bidwills and not the team per say for refusing to give the trophy back to Pottsville and as long as the Bidwill family owns the team it will never, ever win a championship. Pottsville is also where Yuengling beer is brewed. America's oldest brewery.

Did you also know that Art Rooney supported Pottsville's claim to the 1925 Championship, while his family and successors have continued to do so following Art's death in 1988.

In 1967, the NFL created a special committee to investigate the 1925 controversy. The committee brought the Maroon's claim to a team owners meeting that year, where the owners voted 12-2 in favor of keeping the championship with the Chicago Cardinals.


Pottsville did not give up hope easily. The fight for the title continued all the way to 2003, when Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell met with NFL officials to discuss the Maroon's title hopes prior to the 2003 owner's meeting. The owners promptly voted 30-2 against even discussing the matter at the meeting. The only two owners that voted in favor of the measure were from the Philadelphia Eagles and the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Here is another more in depth story about the Maroons which I believe to be historically accurate.
https://pabook.libraries.psu.edu/li...ture-articles/stolen-glory-pottsville-maroons

I do believe the early NFL had a bias towards the teams in the larger cities. Bigger crowds, more publicity, and more money would be critical to its survival. Probably why they upheld the Bears/Staleys title of 1921 and the Cardinals in 1925.

Still, Pottsville was warned not to play the game (thrice by the commissioner, per the article). And to be fair, the Cardinals’ addition of two more games before the predetermined end of the season was within the league rules at the time. Though they added them for a different reason, they still counted in the standings (even the farcical game against Milwaukee and their high-schoolers) and gave the Cardinals the better record even if Pottsville wasn’t suspended. The Maroons could have done the same thing if they weren’t suspended, I suppose.

 

[pemory09]

There are a few errors in the NYT article.

The NFL clearly prohibited Pottsville from playing the game against the former college all-stars. Money was FAR more important than any trophy and the Frankford Yellow Jackets had every right to protest. Their gate took a massive hit when the Pottsville exhibition was moved from their tiny stadium to a larger field in Philadelphia, encroaching on Frankford’s territorial rights (they were based in a Philly suburb). Pottsville happily took the bigger payday knowing the potential repercussions. They later claimed that “someone” who answered the phone at the league office gave the OK. Right.

The Charles Bidwill, Jr. cited in the article would be Michael’s uncle (Bill Bidwill’s older brother), nicknamed Stormy. Not Michael’s grandfather who died in 1947 (Sr. is the one in the HOF). Last I checked Charles “Stormy” Bidwill, Jr. was still alive, in his 90s in Chicago. He is the one who made a comment in the 1960s about never giving that championship to that “hick team.” Maybe the “curse” will end with him, though he has not been affiliated with the team since Bill bought him out in 1972.

I have the 1946 and 1947 media guides and they DO claim the 1925 championship (before winning it in 1947) putting a dent in their cute little story about being cursed.

Great follow up Cardinal. Love the added historical information!

 

[pemory09]

They used to it ended in 1975. NFL champs played a college all-star team. Preseason and if I'm not mistaken it was played in Canton during Hof weekend.

I remember the game, but IIRC it was played in Chicago.

 

[Garthshort]

Hasn't been that long. It was in the timeframe of when I became a Cardinals fan. And it was in the first half of the 20th century. So if form holds, our next NFL championship (for the Cardinals) will occur within the next 28years. I just hope that I'm around to see it.

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

Only the current Pennsylvania teams voted to give the championship to Pottsville — probably out of geographic loyalty. I believe it was the Steelers who claimed a flimsy connection to the Frankford franchise and tried to rescind “their” protest from many years ago (after Frankford folded, the Eagles were created to take their spot, and later the Eagles and Pirates/Steelers owners swapped teams — not to be confused with their wartime Steagles merger).

If you want dirty dealings, check out how the Bears/Staleys stole the 1921 championship from the Buffalo All-Americans. No one is clamoring to give the title to that Buffalo squad and the Bears have won plenty of championships since.

from the top rope TheCardinal steps in with all the details, per usual... you're a great feature of this forum

 

[BigCardsFan]

Their is no curse just incompetent leadership

 

[THESMEL]

They used to it ended in 1975. NFL champs played a college all-star team. Preseason and if I'm not mistaken it was played in Canton during Hof weekend.

Yea don’t remember that and I was browns fan in Lancaster Ohio where my dads from. but the world was a lot bigger then, not like we all knew everything going on like now