Blame D'Antoni

[nowagimp]

Anyone that blames Dantoni for the loss to the Mavs is flat out ignorant. The guy took a team that many believed wouldnt make it to the playoffs at all to the western conference finals. He has people believing that you dont need to slow the game down to win. You can win fast. He may have made some substitution mistakes, but that was not the reason we lost. The reason we lost was that we were undermanned against a very good team and we ran out of gas.

Bingo!

 

[Errntknght]

Joe, "Surely you don't really believe that sentence I put in bold. There is a huge difference in losing later in the playoffs. First of all it means a lot more money which makes Sarver happy and probably less likely to start chopping salary. If he can see how close this team is he might be willing to spend a little extra to get it there.
"

I see your point about an owner who needs to get pumped up about the team to push his spending limits higher. There is also the fact that more playoff experience is beneficial to the players. To me those come under the heading of minor benefits compared to winning the title - so I think you should follow a course that gives you the best chance to win it all. Keeping Nash on or over the brink of exhaustion is not such a course - and I'm fairly sure you know that as well I do.

For a while this year it looked like D'Antoni had enough faith in Eddie House as the backup point that Nash would not be pushed too far, but by the time Andre Barrett was here that was not looking so good - EH had made almost no progress in his running of the team and his shooting was falling off. Barrett wasn't obviously better than House across the board but he wasn't obviously worse either so why not keep another arrow in the quiver. I certainly thought keeping Nash's minutes down was important enough to merit keeping another player around that could possibly back him up - and I think it is a blind spot on D'Antoni's part that he didn't see it that way.

At the time I thought it might signal a surge of faith in EH on D'Antoni's part but that doesn't seem to have been the case from the way things played out.

We've seen Leandro fall completely apart when he was the backup point and EH certainly tailed way off. There was no apparent effort to bring another PG to training camp and Barrett was tossed aside after eleven days - eleven days in which he showed some promise. The net result was that we went into the playoffs with no backup PG that D'Antoni had any faith in and, like day follows night, Nash was played to exhaustion.

Something is seriously amiss and what is most appalling is that D'Antoni seems to be planning on doing exactly the same thing again next year.

 

[Chaplin]

Something is seriously amiss and what is most appalling is that D'Antoni seems to be planning on doing exactly the same thing again next year.

Based on what? Some stuff he said the day after losing in the Western Conference Finals? Why do the fans that have been around so long take everything to the extreme? A lot can change between now and the beginning of the season, but to base the whole 2006-2007 season on something D'Antoni said the day after they were ousted from the playoffs is crazy.

The big word is that nobody wants the team to change drastically, like it has for years now. D'Antoni was pandering to the fans. So what?

 

[Mainstreet]

I say yes, let's blame D'Antoni for two consecutive appearances in the Western Conference Finals.

Actually he did a better coaching job this year without Amare being able to play in the WCF.

I cannot understand the criticism. Even if D'Antoni does make a mistake now and then... look at the results. I wish my good days were as good as his bad days.

Gosh! The critics are tough in Phoenix.

 

[George O'Brien]

The fantasy of "if he had only played XXXX, then we would have won" must be as old as team sports. Sometimes it is actually true, but usually the guys who see somebody playing every day have a better idea about how they'll do than a casual fan.

KT - looked slow and rusty in his garbage time.
House - much better playing off the ball and is just too small to be teamed up with Nash.
Grant - see KT

In another thread I suggested the Suns need a defensive specialist - preferably a physical one who can come in off the bench. The Suns problem in the second half was that with their foul troubles they couldn't stop the Mavs and so couldn't run.

If I have any complaint about D'Antoni is that he doesn't use clear out plays when he's got a major matchup advantage. Somehow the fact that Dirk can't guard anyone never seemed to come up because the Suns didn't attack him.

 

[cly2tw]

In fact, D'Antoni made terrific adjustments during the Lakers and Clippers series - I was surprised and impressed with that.

I was hoping he'd give KT some minutes, too, but heck, the Mavs might have countered with Dampier and had a bigger advantage.

I have a bigger nit to pick than that and that is that you just don't run Steve Nash into the ground the way he did - you play House enough minutes to rest Nash an adequate amount and take your lumps. It could have meant that we lose to the Lakers which would have been a bitter pill to swallow, but that is the right course to take. Because by not resting him enough the chances of Nash playing like we need him to dwindle to almost zero over the course of 4 seven game series. Whether we lose in first round or the third or fourth is not a big deal.

You needn't elaborate on how House performed, I watched all the games and I saw it. But the fact that D'Antoni didn't have much faith in him might well have been a contributing factor. As the team was constructed it was a necessity that EH contribute, and so you play him.

An even better course of action would have been to get a backup PG.

So true.
I called it the Nash dilemma. The team and the system was so that we need Nash to create the speed and space to win the trackmeets. Yet, with him exhausted, his effectivity decreased greatly when it's the most important times in a game or in the year --- in closely contested playoff games.

DA often tends to be myopic to leave Nash in longer if we couldn't pulled away from the opponents or lagging behind. He often only takes him out with him seemly unable to do anything positive. In one game, Nash might recover with 2-3 min rest to get the legs back, but accumulated over the season, we'll feel the effect in the playoffs.

The fatigue issue doesn't stop with Nash. His philosophy to play only the best on the court made all his starters play too much. In the end, the whole team were exhausted. And it was quite a miracle that no more injury occurred.

Pop and Phil Jackson, when being down some pts, don't normally panick to bring back their best players. Somehow, they manage to creep back or hold the ground enough with sufficient time for the bench and storm back in the very end. So, it's somehow a strange issue why DA can't become as patient and try to optimize over a longer time span.

That being said, DA has done a tremdendous job adjusting to the situation. And we were short handed and the Mavs deserved the win. I just hope that he could try to do the "player energy management" a bit better next season. I'm quite sure that he will implement a lot of plays for Amare and Diaw even with Nash in the lineup. And with improved LB there, we wouldn't need to rush Nash back so soon in most games. Keep his minutes under 32, even in playoffs, we will be fine.

 

[Joe Mama]

Note that I never argued about Steve Nash being exhausted and overused. I had that same complaint last year.. My argument was that they would have never made it past the Lakers and/or Clippers without Nash playing those big minutes, and at the end of the day I'd rather have an exhausted Nash going down in the WCF.

I'm all for acquiring an adequate backup point guard. Is there anyone out there who could be had cheaply who would like to resurrect their career? This seems to be the place to do it.

Joe

 

[Chaplin]

I'm all for acquiring an adequate backup point guard. Is there anyone out there who could be had cheaply who would like to resurrect their career? This seems to be the place to do it.

Joe

I'm not sure I'm advocating it, but would Jay Williams fit that description?

 

[nowagimp]

If I have any complaint about D'Antoni is that he doesn't use clear out plays when he's got a major matchup advantage. Somehow the fact that Dirk can't guard anyone never seemed to come up because the Suns didn't attack him.

My recollection was that help defense pertty much was designed to help Dirk out with his man when the suns tried to isolate him. The need to create spacing the floor was very important to preventing the help defense on Dirks man, and they dared Raja to shoot off his one good leg. Sending TT and Leo to the pines due to foul trouble increased the problems with spacing in that area.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I'm checking in late on this thread, but the one thing that I felt contributed to their playoff demise was Nash's physical exhaustion. Last year, whenever he got the iso on whatever big that switched on him, he took him to the hole or he stopped and popped from 18-20. Remember how badly he abused Dirk last year? There was none of that this year. Even when Nash got the switch on Diop, he more often than not passed out of the iso. There were only spots in the series where he actually took the J or drove the lane.

Blaming D'Antoni is wrong. This is something that both Nash and D'Antoni should have recognized. Nash should have done what he did last year, but his body just couldn't do it anymore. Our depth and our lack of firepower off the bench did us in. It was not coaching. D'Antoni's coaching is partly what got us as far as we got....

 

[jibikao]

I'm checking in late on this thread, but the one thing that I felt contributed to their playoff demise was Nash's physical exhaustion. Last year, whenever he got the iso on whatever big that switched on him, he took him to the hole or he stopped and popped from 18-20. Remember how badly he abused Dirk last year? There was none of that this year. Even when Nash got the switch on Diop, he more often than not passed out of the iso. There were only spots in the series where he actually took the J or drove the lane.

Blaming D'Antoni is wrong. This is something that both Nash and D'Antoni should have recognized. Nash should have done what he did last year, but his body just couldn't do it anymore. Our depth and our lack of firepower off the bench did us in. It was not coaching. D'Antoni's coaching is partly what got us as far as we got....

Nash could only do that in game 1 at Mavs' home court. It was obvious Nash's body couldn't do it and Mavs' defense got better with him (partly because Raja was injured and we had one less firepower).

We can't have 7-game series in every round. Last season we swept Griz and then took care of Mavs in 6 games. We need to do that next season. No more slacking off in game 2 of every series. We've gotta win every single game with 100% effort possible. We will get way more rest after sweeping or winning it within 5 games, although in terms of money, Suns' GM was probably happy with the results.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm checking in late on this thread, but the one thing that I felt contributed to their playoff demise was Nash's physical exhaustion. Last year, whenever he got the iso on whatever big that switched on him, he took him to the hole or he stopped and popped from 18-20. Remember how badly he abused Dirk last year? There was none of that this year. Even when Nash got the switch on Diop, he more often than not passed out of the iso. There were only spots in the series where he actually took the J or drove the lane.

Blaming D'Antoni is wrong. This is something that both Nash and D'Antoni should have recognized. Nash should have done what he did last year, but his body just couldn't do it anymore. Our depth and our lack of firepower off the bench did us in. It was not coaching. D'Antoni's coaching is partly what got us as far as we got....

Who says Nash didn't know it? He has stated after several games the level of his exhaustion. However, he is a warrior that will go out and play no matter what. So you can blame that soley on D'Antoni. It is his job to manage his team minutes, to keep a good rotation going.

I don't know if we necessarily found out if we had a bench because he didn't use it. Just a few short weeks ago, the team was bragging about how much deeper the team was even without Amare.

So did coaching get us this far? Well yes. Did coaching get us to the WCF 2 years in a row. Yes. However, that does not mean he is above criticism or that he does not deserve any. He should get credit for all the things the team accomplished and get criticised for the things they didn't.

To me it just all comes down to adjustments the coach didn't make. I am not surprised though. D'Antoni is great at making adjustments from GAME TO GAME. I have always said that.

However, between last years playoffs and this years playoffs... he has shown that making them during the game is not his strength. Think about this...how often after the first or second quarter could you tell how the Suns were going to play for the entire game???? Seems like most of them. How often did you say wow...the team that came out in the 1st half was different then the team that came out in the 2nd half??? Not very many.

 

[sunsfn]

SteelDog,

Without injuries this team would be getting ready for the finals.
With injuries they almost pulled it off.

Losing three starters shortens the bench and greatly effects any NBA team.

Amare goes down, KT goes down, then Bell gets hurt. Bell plays but was not effective.

Last year we had a very weak bench and Jim Jackson was that one person we could count on, when JJ went down Jackson did a good job but the bench was bad. This year the suns went out and with trades and signings strengthened the bench. Then 3 starters get hurt and you blame D'Antoni for the problems.

The bench was weak because they were now starting in place of the injured starters.

D'Antoni did an excellent job of coaching this team, no one should blame him for not playing bench players that were not producing.

The suns will strengthen the bench and not have injuries next year and you will think D'Antoni is an excellent coach!

 

[Errntknght]

Chaplin, "Based on what? Some stuff he said the day after losing in the Western Conference Finals? Why do the fans that have been around so long take everything to the extreme? A lot can change between now and the beginning of the season, but to base the whole 2006-2007 season on something D'Antoni said the day after they were ousted from the playoffs is crazy."

Right now I'm appalled at what D'Antoni said and when he changes course I won't be appalled - I hope. Simple... no need for a tantrum.

 

[Covert Rain]

SteelDog,

Without injuries this team would be getting ready for the finals.
With injuries they almost pulled it off.

Losing three starters shortens the bench and greatly effects any NBA team.

Amare goes down, KT goes down, then Bell gets hurt. Bell plays but was not effective.

Last year we had a very weak bench and Jim Jackson was that one person we could count on, when JJ went down Jackson did a good job but the bench was bad. This year the suns went out and with trades and signings strengthened the bench. Then 3 starters get hurt and you blame D'Antoni for the problems.

The bench was weak because they were now starting in place of the injured starters.

D'Antoni did an excellent job of coaching this team, no one should blame him for not playing bench players that were not producing.

The suns will strengthen the bench and not have injuries next year and you will think D'Antoni is an excellent coach!

I agree the team was depleted. Everybody knows that. However, there were guys on the bench that were capable of giving some other guys rest and we didn't use them. D'Anotoni shortened his rotation way too much.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not convinced there are many PG's who can do what Nash does (well duh), but I think blaming him for playing like just a good PG when tired is a bit much. The Suns are just not deep enough to lose three starters and get to the finals.

BTW, some of the problems with the Suns depth came early when Jim Jackson proved he wasn't interested in playing any more. (He reported to camp out of shape and hadn't worked much on his basketball skills over the summer). If Jim Jackson had not self destructed and returned to play like he did a year ago, losing Raja would not have been the disaster it turned out to be. As it was, the Suns ended up with a three undersized guards in Nash, Barbosa, and House who had continued trouble defending bigger players.

 

[BC867]

Without injuries this team would be getting ready for the finals.

To a certain degree, the Coach has some input into injuries and fatigue. It's not something that happened to Mike D --

Going with a 7-man rotation until they are exhausted, when it matters most.

Going too small, too much, when variety and backup plans during the season would get us ready for playoff basketball.

Would Kurt Thomas have seen time against Shaq? Probably. The finals are a heck of time to change the team chemistry and hope to be the best NBA team for the season.