Bledsoe's turnovers

[sunsfan88]

Similar to Kieff's rebounding, Bledsoe's turnovers is something the Suns really need to address imo. He hasn't showed any improvement in this category from last season, he's averaging the same 3.3 turnovers per game. His turnovers have gotten worse once we traded Dragic and IT away making him more of a primary ball handler as he's averaging 5 turnovers a game post All Star break. He was still turning it over a ton before the trades but he's doing it even more so once he became the primary ball handler.

Now tons of primary ball handlers turn the ball over a lot and that would be fine if he was racking up the assists to match it. His assist/TO ratio is a horrific 1.80 a game which is among the worst in the NBA

Ranked #47 among qualified players in the NBA, you have to actually go to page 2 to even see his name

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/p...ort/assistTurnoverRatio/position/point-guards

I get that its his 2nd year as starting PG but he's a 25 year old whose been in this league for 5 years now whether its playing, practicing or watching. If he really wants to prove that he's worth that $70 million contract he's on, he needs to improve his improvers by a large margin imo.

He's had 7 games of 5 turnovers or more in just February and March including back to back 7 turnover games in the last 2 Suns games.

What's irritating is that a lot of his turnovers are simply careless turnovers, he forces the issue and he seems to telegraph tons of passes. Staring down your intended target before throwing the ball is something that will never work in the NBA. His "drive to the hoop recklessly jump pass" is also so damn frustrating, he honestly has no clue what he's gonna do until he gets inside the paint, gets trapped and jumps AND THEN decides on what to do with the ball during the short time that he's in the air. He also picks up his dribble so damn early. One thing that Dragic learned from being backup to Nash is to keep dribble alive even when your under the rim, I wish Bledsoe could have picked up on this as well.

You would think someone who watched CP3 and played against him every day in practice for like 3 full years would have better bball IQ and better feel for the game.

He's really, really gotta improve on his turnovers if he wants to lead the Suns team anywhere as their starting PG imo. He's been doing everything else fine but these turnovers have just been way too damn much.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You'll get some blowback for this post from the Bledsoe excuse makers... But I couldn't agree with you more.
There is really nothing for me to add, other than this - What drives me most crazy about his TO's is his amazingly poor passing. He constantly delivers the ball in the absolute WORST spots where, even in the rare case when the intended recipient is somehow able to grab hold of his putrid pass, he's left in no-man's land with nothing left to do... It's like, OK Eric, you didn't get credited with the turnover because the guy you passed the ball to made a great play to catch it, but then that guy often turns the ball over because you left him on an island with no good options... Drive me nuts!

 

[SirStefan32]

You guys are just haters. Bledsoe's turnover issues are because of Dragic! Everyone knows that. On a serious note, though, I don't think this issue will go away. Bledsoe is who he is- an undersized shooting guard who can't shoot or run the offense. Bledsoe the player is not the problem. Fans' unrealistic expectations are the problem. I can't blame my cat for not playing fetch- cat's just don't play fetch. If you want to play fetch, get a dog.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't know that anyone thinks Bledsoe's turnovers are not a problem or that they are not his problem. His habit of leaving his feet to make passes is awful. It needs to stop. I've said this countless times.

But hey, objectivity I've noticed is not allowed of late. Since I think Bledsoe is, overall, one of the best things this team has going for it, that means I am supposed to defend him tooth and nail no matter what the issue.

 

[sunsfan88]

You guys are just haters. Bledsoe's turnover issues are because of Dragic! Everyone knows that. On a serious note, though, I don't think this issue will go away. Bledsoe is who he is- an undersized shooting guard who can't shoot or run the offense. Bledsoe the player is not the problem. Fans' unrealistic expectations are the problem. I can't blame my cat for not playing fetch- cat's just don't play fetch. If you want to play fetch, get a dog.

If this is true, isn't it on Hornacek or the FO to find a solution so that he isn't out there playing PG which requires him to run the offense?

 

[BC867]

As I posted in another thread earlier today, it is reported that Hornacek said that Brandon Knight is the best Point Guard on the team. We know he hasn't had a lot of practices with the team.

If in a week from now, Bledsoe is still the lead Point Guard on offense, we'll know that the coaching staff has their heads up their butts. Even if Knight is not ready, as Hornacek said, he is the best Point Guard on the team. OJT.

Even now, the defensive rebounders and whoever passes the ball in after made baskets by the opponent should be looking for Knight on every play.

 

[SirStefan32]

If this is true, isn't it on Hornacek or the FO to find a solution so that he isn't out there playing PG which requires him to run the offense?

Oh absolutely! Problem is that they made that move, then extended Bledsoe, and basically chased the All-NBA player out of town by favoring Bledsoe.

Now they are in the position where they can't really admit they bet on the wrong horse, so they have to try to save what little credibility they have. If they were smart, they'd realize they are just making it worse, and they'd be better off saying, "Yeah, we screwed up. We will blow it up and do this the right way."

My point is that Bledsoe himself didn't really do anything wrong, nor is he to blame. If I pick an "OK" employee to run the most important project of the year and he fails, then I am to blame for putting someone into a situation for which they are just not ready. I blame McD really, as Bledsoe is his guy. In a recent interview, Dragic flat out said that he was "cool" with Hornacek and his teammates. Without saying it, he told us who is to blame. Bledsoe is what he is. Getting mad at him for not being even a competent point guard is like blaming a snake for biting you when you pick it up. What did you expect? It's like taking a sports car off-roading. It's not what it's designed to do.

 

[SirStefan32]

As I posted in another thread earlier today, it is reported that Hornacek said that Brandon Knight is the best Point Guard on the team. We know he hasn't had a lot of practices with the team.

If in a week from now, Bledsoe is still the lead Point Guard on offense, we'll know that the coaching staff has their heads up their butts. Even if Knight is not ready, as Hornacek said, he is the best Point Guard on the team. OJT.

Even now, the defensive rebounders and whoever passes the ball in after made baskets by the opponent should be looking for Knight on every play.

But that's the problem, BC- Bledsoe can't play 2 either. If he could play 2, Dragic would still be here and we'd have an All-NBA point guard on our roster.

 

[BC867]

But that's the problem, BC- Bledsoe can't play 2 either. If he could play 2, Dragic would still be here and we'd have an All-NBA point guard on our roster.

But, whether alongside Dragic or Knight, Bledsoe at Shooting Guard would damage the team less than when he tries to run the offense.

Not ideal at the "2", but better than being the quarterback, which affects everyone else on the court.

But the Suns won't even make that concession.

 

[SirStefan32]

But, whether alongside Dragic or Knight, Bledsoe at Shooting Guard would damage the team less than when he tries to run the offense.

Not ideal at the "2", but better than being the quarterback, which affects everyone else on the court.

But the Suns won't even make that concession.

Fair enough. He would do less damage at 2 than he does on 1.

 

[FArting]

Bledsoe is going to get better.

This is first full season with the Suns without going on the injured list.

 

[leclerc]

Kyrie Irving > Eric Bledsoe.

I think Brandon Knight fits better into supporting ball handler 2 guard than Dragic and IT did however. Knight can shoot it and he's sort of a slasher, or at least has the build for it.

Hopefully we can get this ship straightened in the summer. Have Bledsoe and Knight gel in the back court, have Goodwin come in as the backup guard. Sign a shooter or two. And I mean shooter, not some tweener with no brains. Start with Tucker and Kieff as forwards, and have Marcus and Warren as backups, *or* do a deal for a star forward (dreaming) and have that guy + Warren and any of the remaining Morri at forward. Stick with Len and Wright as centers. And Horny as coach.

 

[devilalum]

small hands

 

[SweetD]

3.3 turnovers a game is not that bad. The ratio sucks for sure and lately he has been turning it over more. But he is also getting more assists a game.

Some of the turnovers come because the other player creates no space to even receive the pass. Morrii are the worst at this they just stand in their spot and wait for the pass creating no space.

Of course Bled is going to have high turnovers he handles the ball and is the one feeding this bad offense. Harden, Wade, Westbrook all turn the ball over more.

It is hard to get assists when you the team shoots like crap and the recieving player gets the ball and goes iso vs taking the assisted shot.

Don't get me wrong he still gets caught in bad positions but all players do that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But that's the problem, BC- Bledsoe can't play 2 either. If he could play 2, Dragic would still be here and we'd have an All-NBA point guard on our roster.

Jesus.... Even you've admitted Dragic isn't really a PG and to call him an ALL-NBA PG is specious at best and intellectually dishonest at worst. Listing him as such makes it seem like he's a) been a consistent ALL-NBA player while completely ignores that he's had ONE season playing at a 3rd Team All-NBA level, and only got that award because Westbrook was injured half the year.

So, if you're going to throw a label on Dragic, at least be honest about it... Calling him a one time 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

 

[SirStefan32]

Jesus.... Even you've admitted Dragic isn't really a PG and to call him an ALL-NBA PG is specious at best and intellectually dishonest at worst. Listing him as such makes it seem like he's a) been a consistent ALL-NBA player while completely ignores that he's had ONE season playing at a 3rd Team All-NBA level, and only got that award because Westbrook was injured half the year.

So, if you're going to throw a label on Dragic, at least be honest about it... Calling him a one time 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

Was Dragic not an All-NBA player while playing point most of the season due to Bledsoe's injury? That's a fact. I am sorry if you don't like facts.

 

[AzStevenCal]

3.3 turnovers a game is not that bad. The ratio sucks for sure and lately he has been turning it over more. But he is also getting more assists a game.

Some of the turnovers come because the other player creates no space to even receive the pass. Morrii are the worst at this they just stand in their spot and wait for the pass creating no space.

Of course Bled is going to have high turnovers he handles the ball and is the one feeding this bad offense. Harden, Wade, Westbrook all turn the ball over more.

It is hard to get assists when you the team shoots like crap and the recieving player gets the ball and goes iso vs taking the assisted shot.

Don't get me wrong he still gets caught in bad positions but all players do that.

Every point guard picks up turnovers because a teammate isn't where he's supposed to be. Eric's turnover average might creep up a little because of unfamiliarity/spacing etc but his problem runs deeper. He leaves his feet to shoot and if the defense reacts, he tries to pass instead of just completing the play. He needs to be more "selfish" once he's left his feet. The time to set up other players isn't when you're in the air and your vision is cut off by defenders.

Bledsoe doesn't have that "feel" that good point guards have (he's often completely unaware of his surroundings). Add to that the simple fact he's not a very good ball handler for his position in addition to being no better than an average passer. He also has some of the same instinct shortcomings that hampered Goran at the point.

Now, despite what I just said, I still think he's a very good basketball player. But right now I look at him like I do Carmelo. Anthony can put up great numbers but I'm not sure you can ever go deep in the playoffs with Carmelo as your 1st or 2nd option. Unless Eric can improve on his turnovers and gain a better understanding of clock management, he'll never lead a team to the kind of heights we want him to. We'd be foolish to "get rid of him" but we need him to improve or we need to let him put up the kind of numbers that will create the right kind of trade scenario.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Was Dragic not an All-NBA player while playing point most of the season due to Bledsoe's injury? That's a fact. I am sorry if you don't like facts.

Actually he played shooting guard for more than half of the season, Bledsoe missed less than half the year. Furthermore, the league does not award it that position specific, and even if they did, looking at the all-NBA teams Dragic is not among the top 3 "PGs" listed.

And, outside of that season where he mostly played SG, Dragic has never come remotely close to anything of significance. So acting as though he is this established "All-NBA" point guard is extremely disingenuous.

Those are the actual "facts". I wouldn't rub them in someones face so loosely.

 

[BC867]

Here is a solution for the rest of the season . . .



We know that the multi-Point Guard concept has not been smooth (whether with Bledsoe, Dragic, Thomas or Knight, none of whom are really Point Guards but wanted to be the alpha dog).

Here is a temporary solution.

Reinsert Marcus back into the starting lineup (so when Tucker who can't tell the difference between AM and PM misses the bus, he won't be late).

Tell Bledsoe and Knight that, for the rest of the season, they are both Wings. Every team, just as every chicken, has two Wings. Don't even try to assist.

Have Horny give Markieff and Marcus a crash course in being dual Point Forwards. It is the only way to avoid the alpha dog problem. We know that the twins want each other to do well and love to pass to each other. And Markieff told the Press that he is too light for Power Forward.

Tell Bledsoe, our most consistent rebounder, that it is his job to reach at least 25 and 10 (rebounds) every game. And Knight to reach 20 points as well.

Maybe we'll all feel better over the last quarter of the season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually he played shooting guard for more than half of the season, Bledsoe missed less than half the year. Furthermore, the league does not award it that position specific, and even if they did, looking at the all-NBA teams Dragic is not among the top 3 "PGs" listed.

And, outside of that season where he mostly played SG, Dragic has never come remotely close to anything of significance. So acting as though he is this established "All-NBA" point guard is extremely disingenuous.

Those are the actual "facts". I wouldn't rub them in someones face so loosely.

Bingo.

 

[SirStefan32]

Head and shoulders above your boy Bledsoe, nonetheless.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Head and shoulders above your boy Bledsoe, nonetheless.

Lol... I don't have a "boy". Jury's definitely still out on Bledsoe, but your kool-aid induced opinion of Dragic is pretty out there, IMO.

Guy had a very good season last year... The only time in his entire
Career he's played that way for a season. Dubbing him an ALL-NBA PG like its a consistent state of play is pretty ridiculous to me.

 

[slinslin]

Head and shoulders above your boy Bledsoe, nonetheless.

His track record as a starting PG shows otherwise, as do his top end games and his age.

 

[3rdside]

"There are no facts - just interpretations" (Nietzsche).

At risk of being accused of being a Dragic homer again (I'm not - I definitely like the guy though - call me a fan of 'guards who make the teams they play for better'; Hardaway (Orlando years) definitely Nash, probably Dragic...).:

Pelton: Dragic is worth the money

After news of Dragic's desire to be traded broke Tuesday night, I tweeted "buyer beware," noting that Dragic will be 29 by the time he becomes a free agent this summer, and his 2013-14 performance looks suspiciously fluky compared to the rest of his career. But a funny thing happened when I went to find evidence for my argument: It turns out I was completely wrong, at least about whether Dragic's return to earth is better explained by regression or the Suns' glut of point guards.

Part of my logic was that relatively few of Dragic's minutes have come with Thomas; he mostly has played with Bledsoe, the same starting lineup as last season. This is true; according to NBAwowy.com, nearly two-thirds of Dragic's minutes have come next to Bledsoe with Thomas on the bench. However, that is a change from last season. Because of Bledsoe's knee surgery and coach Jeff Hornacek's ability to offset the minutes of the two point guards he then had on the roster, Dragic played more than twice as many minutes with Bledsoe on the bench as on the court, according to NBA.com/Stats.

Moreover, the difference between Dragic's performance with and without Bledsoe is staggering. Basically, Dragic's All-NBA nod can be attributed entirely to how he performed as Phoenix's lone point guard. Check out a comparison of his numbers by backcourt:


Dragic 2013-14 Performance
Role P36 A36 Usg TS% Win% WARP
Lone PG 22.1 6.9 .257 .622 .658 9.1
W/Bledsoe 18.2 4.4 .226 .565 .505 1.7


With the ball in his hands more frequently, Dragic created more of his own offense and set up teammates more frequently. Yet he also defied the typical relationship between usage and efficiency by improving his true shooting percentage dramatically as well. When Bledsoe was on the court with him, Dragic was about an average player. (League average for win percentage, the per-minute version of my wins above replacement player [WARP] metric, is .500.) With Bledsoe on the bench, Dragic had the league's 11th-best winning percentage.

This season, that issue has been exacerbated by Thomas' presence. It's no longer possible for Hornacek to stagger minutes so only one point guard is on the court at a time -- Dragic has played barely 100 minutes all season without either Bledsoe or Thomas alongside him, per NBAwowy.com.


Dragic 2014-15 Performance
Role P36 A36 Usg TS% Win% WARP
W/Bledsoe 17.2 4.0 .216 .563 .504 2.1
W/Thomas 15.5 3.4 .204 .517 .420 0.0
W/3 PG 14.4 3.5 .172 .614 .416 0.0
Lone PG 20.9 7.4 .245 .666 .598 0.4


Dragic has played about the same with Bledsoe as he did last season. But next to Thomas, a more ball-dominant point guard, Dragic's per-minute ratings drop to replacement level. He's been relegated to spotting up, sending his usage rate plummeting -- particularly with all three point guards on the court together. In the few opportunities Dragic has had the point all to himself, he's generally performed like last season, with the exception of a small-sample spike in his turnover rate. Dragic's per-36 averages as the lone point have been All-Star-caliber. Per Basketball-Reference.com, just three players are averaging at least 20.0 points and 7.0 assists per 36 minutes this season: Stephen Curry, LeBron James and Russell Westbrook.

Whatever team acquires Dragic can't expect this level of performance for the life of his next contract. His age is still a concern. Players rated as similar by my SCHOENE projection system saw their WARP totals drop by more than 20 percent between their age-29 and age-30 seasons. A four-year deal for the maximum salary would likely prove an overpay, even with the cap due to rise dramatically.

The right fit also will be crucial. Dragic won't be able to dominate the ball playing next to Kobe Bryant with the Lakers or in the Knicks' triangle offense, creating some of the same issues produced by the Suns' current glut of point guards. But if Dragic gets a chance to play primarily with the ball, the rest of the league should beware.

 

[AzStevenCal]

"There are no facts - just interpretations" (Nietzsche).

At risk of being accused of being a Dragic homer again (I'm not - I definitely like the guy though - call me a fan of 'guards who make the teams they play for better'; Hardaway (Orlando years) definitely Nash, probably Dragic...).:

Pelton: Dragic is worth the money

After news of Dragic's desire to be traded broke Tuesday night, I tweeted "buyer beware," noting that Dragic will be 29 by the time he becomes a free agent this summer, and his 2013-14 performance looks suspiciously fluky compared to the rest of his career. But a funny thing happened when I went to find evidence for my argument: It turns out I was completely wrong, at least about whether Dragic's return to earth is better explained by regression or the Suns' glut of point guards.

Interesting analysis but it ignores the elephant in the room. Goran was at his best when he was the primary ball handler AND Frye and Keef were at the 4 and 5. When Keef and Plumlee were out there instead, Goran's efficiency dropped considerably with and without Eric.

IIRC, last year, Goran was more effective when Eric was on the bench but Eric was at his best when Goran played next to him. But the Suns were far better when both players played than when either player sat out and for me, that's the most important stat of all of them. But our two headed monster was always at it's best when we had Frye out there for spacing.

Losing Frye might not have been a mistake for this front office but thinking that we could plug just anyone into that role was. In hindsight we'd have been better off if we'd paid Channing, worked a sign and trade for Bledsoe and let Goran run the offense 24 minutes a game and play off the ball with IT for another 12 or so. Plenty of minutes to give both of those guys their chance to run the team and then we could have used the Bledsoe assets to acquire a couple more big men. It wouldn't have put us any closer to our end goal but it would have made this season more bearable and our short term future would have looked far better. It's anyone's guess what it would have meant for the long run, we probably won't know until we cash in the Miami draft chips.

Steve