Bob Young Article on the suns and the Q trade

[thegrahamcrackr]

There would have been plenty of people that would have been up-in-arms about signing JJ to a 50 million dollar extension last year. Plenty. I'm not sure why you have such a short memory about this. All of a sudden, he was inconsistent, BUT he was worth giving a ton of money for. I give the Suns credit for being cautious in a summer that saw Adonal freaking Foyle get a ton of money.

I wouldn't have been. I said from the very moment that I found out the deal didn't happen because of 5 million that the Suns would regret it. I am pretty sure I predicted that he would get around 60 million this summer, was laughed at, and now that prediction may be low.

I can understand why Sarver didn't sign off on the extension. However, you cannot let him skate by saying that he had just paid a lot for Steve and Q, and JJ was too inconsistant.

Sarver apparently thought than an inconsistant JJ was worth 45 million. When you are talking about a player that appears to be on the upswing, and with a huge amount of potential - you shell out the extra 5 million over 6 years. I think almost any rational person would see that less than 1 million a year over 6 years is worth tying up a person you are apparently fond of.

 

[RJ May]

I wouldn't have been. I said from the very moment that I found out the deal didn't happen because of 5 million that the Suns would regret it. I am pretty sure I predicted that he would get around 60 million this summer, was laughed at, and now that prediction may be low.

I can understand why Sarver didn't sign off on the extension. However, you cannot let him skate by saying that he had just paid a lot for Steve and Q, and JJ was too inconsistant.

Sarver apparently thought than an inconsistant JJ was worth 45 million. When you are talking about a player that appears to be on the upswing, and with a huge amount of potential - you shell out the extra 5 million over 6 years. I think almost any rational person would see that less than 1 million a year over 6 years is worth tying up a person you are apparently fond of.

Great post graham. I agree with everything you just said.
Many here are saying that JJ was inconsistent, but fail to state that Q was just as inconsistent and got around the same amount JJ asked for.

 

[RJ May]

I have to admit that I've been a little skeptical of JJ's real value to this team since the Phoenix Suns did so well in the playoffs without him. If they had any depth off the bench once Jimmy Jackson had to step into the starting role they might not have missed a beat without him. The only problem is that Jimmy Jackson is getting old, so we really can't rely on him as a starter for long.

I do think the Phoenix Suns could field a championship contender with Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, and to a lesser extent Shawn Marion if they were surrounded with good role players. I'm all for re-signing JJ, but I don't necessarily think it's the end of the world if somehow he got away.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say here.

I want the Phoenix Suns to sign JJ. I think they should re-sign JJ. I think they will re-sign JJ. I was just surprised how well the team played without him, especially with the black hole his injury left on the bench.

Joe Mama

We couldn't have been watching the same suns team if you thought they played well without JJ. The suns were 6-2 with JJ and 3-4 without him.

 

[George O'Brien]

There would have been plenty of people that would have been up-in-arms about signing JJ to a 50 million dollar extension last year. Plenty. I'm not sure why you have such a short memory about this. All of a sudden, he was inconsistent, BUT he was worth giving a ton of money for. I give the Suns credit for being cautious in a summer that saw Adonal freaking Foyle get a ton of money.

Perhaps some our historians can dig up some of the stuff that said about JJ a year ago. There were a few who were quite willing to throw JJ into a deal with the Magic along with Marion for McGrady. The national media treated it as if the Suns were seriously offering it (they weren't).

In any case, Bob Young was doing the typical "20-20" hindsight thing that gives columists such a bad reputation. None of the decisions the Suns made would not turn out great, but is there a team that doesn't?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Found a few

I had no real problem with the 6 year/60 million offer. I understand why they passed on it though. If it weren't for a new CBA, I think that we would almost definitely wind up paying more next year.

Supposedly Sarver told JJ something like, "Go out, have a good year and you will be a rich man"

If he looks great this season I would prefer that they trade him. Of course that's assuming that some team is willing to give up substantial value to get him. I do agree that not extending him was the right move. Actually disagree with something set in the article. That is that if Colangelos still the owner a would have almost certainly re-signed Johnson. I don't think that is true in this case. If JJ and his agent had been quite reasonable they might have extended him. I don't think a half a season of good, consistent play deserved a giant contract, and I'll bet Colangelos felt the same way.

Joe Mama

I really like the decision not to extend Johnson now. Let's see if he can still perform once there's a bit of pressure on him, for a change.

If he looks great, someone offers him the max, and the Suns lose him, I can live with that.

There ya go another long thread title! I was thinking about this even before we signed Richardson... I know it's early and I think he'll be a good player for us but I always though Johnson could be a superstar if he put everything together... We declined Johnsons' agent's offer that was supposedly somewhere around 50mil for six years... I can't remember what we paid Richardson but I think it was something around there...

Wouldn't it be ironic if we let Johnson go after having a much better year than Richardson? I think sometimes you have to take chances with potential... If Johnson plays up to what I think his potential is he'll get close to the max or the max, we won't pay it and he'll go elsewhere. I wish we signed him at 50mil when we had a chance Yeah he might not do what I think he will do but you have to take chances like that...that's how you win championships...

I also think the Suns are going to regret not extending JJ, if they actually could have for $50 million over 6 yrs. JJ will probably get an offer of $55-65 over 6 yrs, unless the new CBA lowers the number of years that contracts can be signed for. Still he'll probably get offered a contract that averages 8-10 million a year. I think the Suns will match it if JJ keeps playing the way he has so far this season (not FG %, but all around game).

If the Suns sign Johnson to a long extension, either Marion or Richardson will be traded in the next couple of years for a shorter-term deal (or a big man). It just wouldn't make sense to have $30+ million dollars per year sunk into three SF/SG players.

 

[SirStefan32]

------------------------------------
There would have been plenty of people that would have been up-in-arms about signing JJ to a 50 million dollar extension last year.
---------------------------
WHO YOU?? Other posters here? who are these people you talk about?

Well, I would be one of them.

 

[Joe Mama]

We couldn't have been watching the same suns team if you thought they played well without JJ. The suns were 6-2 with JJ and 3-4 without him.

They also racked up 4 of those 6 wins against a Memphis team that was much weaker then Dallas or San Antonio. You don't think they played well without him? I think they are definitely better with him. I'll grant you that. I thought they played much better than I expected without him though, especially considering the complete lack of depth JJax in the starting lineup. I don't think the starting lineup suffered so significantly without him.

Look, my point was that I thought the Phoenix Suns would fall apart without JJ. I thought there would be a significant drop-off in the starting lineup, and the lack of a bench would just kill them. Instead they beat the Dallas Mavericks in 6 games and played a close but short series against San Antonio.

I agree that Steve Nash was exhausted after the Dallas series. I'm not sure the Phoenix Suns need to give JJ maximum money to avoid that though. They just need to find a decent backup point guard and/or a good swingman for the bench.

Like I said earlier, I think the greatness of the Phoenix Suns is dependent mostly on Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire, and to a lesser extent Shawn Marion.

Oh forget it, I just looked at Joe Johnson's numbers in the playoffs. I love the guy now. It's not that I was ever opposed to the Phoenix Suns matching any offer for him. I just wasn't sure they needed him at a maximum contract.

Give him whatever it takes.

Joe Mama

 

[jandaman]

All im going to say is that the suns biggest mistake was not signing JJ the extension.. by a mere $5 Million difference.

Now I expect him to sign for $50 + $15-$20 million more, since Cavs and Hawks will offer around that mark (probably $70-75 Million for 6-7 years)

 

[TopGamer]

We couldn't have been watching the same suns team if you thought they played well without JJ. The suns were 6-2 with JJ and 3-4 without him.

We played good without him. We did end up winning the Dallas series correct?
We also faced the future champs and JJ being healthy may have extended the series but not have changed the outcome. The biggest impact JJ's absence made was it shortened our bench, and by that I mean we lost our ONLY reliable bench player. If we had at least another bench player that could have contributed as much as JJax was capable of we would have been in much better shape. Losing a starting player is a big blow when you have no one to replace the sixth man.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Oh forget it, I just looked at Joe Johnson's numbers in the playoffs. I love the guy now. It's not that I was ever opposed to the Phoenix Suns matching any offer for him. I just wasn't sure they needed him at a maximum contract.

Give him whatever it takes.

Joe Mama

LOL.

For those who haven't looked them up:

Games - 8
Minutes - 39.4
Points - 18.8
Boards - 4.3
Assists - 3.3
Steals - 1.11
Blocks - .44
Turn Overs - 1.1
Fouls - 2.0
Asst/TO - 3.00
FG% - 50.4%
3P% - 55.6%

In comparison to Manu (Who people preach as a god for some reason)

Games - 23
Minutes - 33.6
Points - 20.8
Boards - 5.8
Assists - 4.2
Steals - 1.22
Blocks - .26
Turn Overs - 2.9
Fouls - 3.0
Asst/TO - 1.47
FG% - 50.7%
3P% - 43.8%

 

[Joe Mama]

LOL.

For those who haven't looked them up:

Games - 8
Minutes - 39.4
Points - 18.8
Boards - 4.3
Assists - 3.3
Steals - 1.11
Blocks - .44
Turn Overs - 1.1
Fouls - 2.0
Asst/TO - 3.00
FG% - 50.4%
3P% - 55.6%

In comparison to Manu (Who people preach as a god for some reason)

Games - 23
Minutes - 33.6
Points - 20.8
Boards - 5.8
Assists - 4.2
Steals - 1.22
Blocks - .26
Turn Overs - 2.9
Fouls - 3.0
Asst/TO - 1.47
FG% - 50.7%
3P% - 43.8%

I'm not sure it's fair to compare those two. Manu was to go to guy for the Spurs for much of the playoffs. Defensively he had much less support, but on offense JJ was seeing less attention from opposing defenses.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare those two. Manu was to go to guy for the Spurs for much of the playoffs. Defensively he had much less support, but on offense JJ was seeing less attention from opposing defenses.

Joe Mama

Oh I know it is not fair. I was just bringing up the numbers, and comparing JJ's playoff performance to that of a player that was being hyped to no end.

 

[sunsfn]

I'm not sure it's fair to compare those two. Manu was to go to guy for the Spurs for much of the playoffs. Defensively he had much less support, but on offense JJ was seeing less attention from opposing defenses.

Joe Mama

Joe, if you think anyone other than Duncan is the go to guy on the spurs you need to watch more basketball! In most of the spurs series, their wing men were wide open for a shot after they "ALL" doubled Duncan.

And as far as opposing defenses for JJ, there is no doubt that the opposing teams doubled Amare a lot, but opposing teams also left Q wide open a lot of the time and if JJ got the ball they often ran a 2nd guy at him. I remember him making a lot of shots from the side after leaving his man standing still.
Do you not remember the shot over Bowen....? After Marion did not do well and JJ was scoring a lot, the spurs put Bowen on JJ and he still continued to score. Manu does not have to face Bowen on defense.

I think you have a short memory sometimes.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Joe, if you think anyone other than Duncan is the go to guy on the spurs you need to watch more basketball! In most of the spurs series, their wing men were wide open for a shot after they "ALL" doubled Duncan.

Manu was the unquestioned 2nd option on the Spurs. He often got the ball with little time left instead of Duncan.

On the Suns, Amare and Nash were always options before JJ.

 

[sunsfn]

Manu was the unquestioned 2nd option on the Spurs. He often got the ball with little time left instead of Duncan.

On the Suns, Amare and Nash were always options before JJ.

Manu was the 2nd option...........uh, okay.

In a lot of the series games JJ was the 2nd option, Q could not find the ocean and Nash did not get him the ball as much, Marion was not hitting that well, and Nash was getting the ball to JJ late in the clock also, and JJ had to create.

The series games that are confusing some of you are the games where JJ was hurt and did not play against Dallas.
Nash had to take over those games because JJ was not there to bail him out.
Again, Q was not hitting and neither was Marion so Nash had to score big time until JJ came back and then Nash was whipped.

 

[az1965]

You need to wake up! Do you know WHY, do you have any IDEA, why Sarver didn't sign JJ to a contract last year? You say it's being cheap, but after signing Steve Nash to a huge contract and knowing that JJ would be restricted this season, it was a relatively safe financial move. Yes, JJ FINALLY proved that he can be consistent and an integral part of the team, but it took 3 years to do it! We were frustrated with his inconsistency, can you imagine how people would be if we signed him to a huge extension last summer? It'd be pandemonium! They took a 50/50 chance, and it worked out in JJ's favor. Now, it just time to move on, resign him for however much and get to work on 2005-2006.

I concur. It was the right decision last year.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I concur. It was the right decision last year.

Even though they were less than 1 million a season apart? It was worth the risk that he would blow up? Like I said earlier, if Sarver wanted to wait a year without giving him an offer - I could totally understand that.

The fact that he offered 45, and wouldn't budge to 50 was not a good decision at that time.

 

[az1965]

No, it depends also on the contract if you want to move a player. They were not sure on JJ so did not want to make his contract so that it is difficult to move. Just my guess. We can't know why Sarver did not budge from 45. I don't think we can say he is cheap. He got Nash with Marion max'd, and now Amare going to be max'd.

 

[cly2tw]

I don't understand anybody would prefer JJ over Manu after watching the playoffs. JJ is smooth like silk but by far not the clutch and gritty player Manu is. JJ actually had just one game where he came up big, namely the only win against the Spurs. On the Suns' team, everybody has good numbers. It comes with playing with Nash and, to a lesser extent, Amare. I'd swap JJ for Manu anytime.

 

[hcsilla]

Joe, if you think anyone other than Duncan is the go to guy on the spurs you need to watch more basketball! In most of the spurs series, their wing men were wide open for a shot after they "ALL" doubled Duncan.

If you think so probably you are the one who needs to watch more basketball.

Ginobili very often created his own shot and was pretty much unstoppable after that. Frankly, based on this year's play-off it's not easy at all to decide who was the Spurs' 1st option.

 

[sunsfn]

Joe mama & thegrahamcrackr,

I have to apologize to you.

Yesterday I misread your posts on the comparisons!
I was in such a JJ defensive mode that I could not see the trees for the forest so to speak......sorry.

sunsfn

 

[Joe Mama]

Joe mama & thegrahamcrackr,

I have to apologize to you.

Yesterday I misread your posts on the comparisons!
I was in such a JJ defensive mode that I could not see the trees for the forest so to speak......sorry.

sunsfn

No problem at all. Actually your one post inspired me to go back and watch a little video of Joe Johnson against San Antonio in the WCF. Even though he did not shoot particularly well in the last game I do feel much better about the possibility of giving him a maximum contract. At this point I think he's probably really a $7-8 million player, but I can see him being worth the max as early as the end of next season.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Originally Posted by elindholm on 11/9/04

If the Suns sign Johnson to a long extension, either Marion or Richardson will be traded in the next couple of years for a shorter-term deal (or a big man). It just wouldn't make sense to have $30+ million dollars per year sunk into three SF/SG players.

Woohoo!

 

[devilalum]

Originally Posted by elindholm on 11/9/04

If the Suns sign Johnson to a long extension, either Marion or Richardson will be traded in the next couple of years for a shorter-term deal (or a big man). It just wouldn't make sense to have $30+ million dollars per year sunk into three SF/SG players.

Woohoo!

And if you had been completely confident in your prediction I'd now be wearing the clown avatar of your choosing.

 

[Joe Mama]

Have the Phoenix Suns re-signed Joe Johnson to a long extension yet?

Joe Mama