Bob Young on Sports Tonight... last night

[Joe Mama]

Bob Young was on Sports Tonight last night. He said that there's a very good chance the Phoenix Suns will not re-sign JJ because of the way Atlanta might frontload the contract. he said they are probably exploring slide and trade deals, but said they would be exploring such deals with other teams.

This mostly seem to be Young's own observations instead of anything based on conversations he said with people inside the team.

I usually can't stand Bruce Cooper, but he made a very good point and Bob Young followed up on it. He said that if the Phoenix Suns let JJ go or even get a sign and trade it's going to upset a lot of the Phoenix Suns fans and rightfully so because they've been saying all along they would match any offer including the Atlanta Hawks maximum offer. He said that they really can't use the front loading as an excuse because they themselves did the same thing with Quentin Richardson last year. They should have known that a team would do it with JJ.

Bob Young went on saying that if they do not match it will hurt their credibility with other teams because they've been saying all along they would do anything to keep him. He also said it would likely upset some of the players like Steve Nash who were told that the team would do what it took to get to a championship level. That would hurt them with other key free agents in the future. He didn't say anything about Amare Stoudemire, but I would be concerned about how he felt as well.

Again, this all seemed to be speculation on Bob Young's part based on the rumors coming out that the Phoenix Suns might not match and the lack of any recent statements about them matching. he did not say he had received information from people in the team about this.

Joe Mama

 

[lancelet's cousin]

How would a S&T work better than simply re-signing JJ? Wouldn't we have to sign JJ to a max deal and trade for the equivalent amount (within 25% I guess)? So we would be still in the same boat financially but without JJ.

 

[Kolo]

How would a S&T work better than simply re-signing JJ? Wouldn't we have to sign JJ to a max deal and trade for the equivalent amount (within 25% I guess)? So we would be still in the same boat financially but without JJ.

Not if it involves a team under the cap (like the Hawks). We could re-sign JJ to a max deal and trade him straight up for (for example) Josh Smith, or for a few first round picks, etc... If it's a s&t with a team over the cap, we'd have to take back salary w/in 25%.

 

[Cheesebeef]

How would a S&T work better than simply re-signing JJ? Wouldn't we have to sign JJ to a max deal and trade for the equivalent amount (within 25% I guess)? So we would be still in the same boat financially but without JJ.

maybe the contracts would run a long or they would be expiring? Who knows - bottom line - if the mvoe is made, we've just turned into the Cardinals circa 1999... ugh. The signing day can't get here fast enough.

 

[sunsfn]

Bob Young was the suns beat reporter for many years, and you would see him every game on TV sitting at the table where the press sets.

He quit doing that a year ago and now writes this article that has some good stuff but mainly spoofs people with the column.

I lost a lot of respect for him the last couple years he wrote the suns articles because he just did not seem interested, and many times did not confirm info he had written, and later it was proven wrong.

 

[Mainstreet]

Bob Young was on Sports Tonight last night. He said that there's a very good chance the Phoenix Suns will not re-sign JJ because of the way Atlanta might frontload the contract. he said they are probably exploring slide and trade deals, but said they would be exploring such deals with other teams.

This mostly seem to be Young's own observations instead of anything based on conversations he said with people inside the team.

I usually can't stand Bruce Cooper, but he made a very good point and Bob Young followed up on it. He said that if the Phoenix Suns let JJ go or even get a sign and trade it's going to upset a lot of the Phoenix Suns fans and rightfully so because they've been saying all along they would match any offer including the Atlanta Hawks maximum offer. He said that they really can't use the front loading as an excuse because they themselves did the same thing with Quentin Richardson last year. They should have known that a team would do it with JJ.

Bob Young went on saying that if they do not match it will hurt their credibility with other teams because they've been saying all along they would do anything to keep him. He also said it would likely upset some of the players like Steve Nash who were told that the team would do what it took to get to a championship level. That would hurt them with other key free agents in the future. He didn't say anything about Amare Stoudemire, but I would be concerned about how he felt as well.

Again, this all seemed to be speculation on Bob Young's part based on the rumors coming out that the Phoenix Suns might not match and the lack of any recent statements about them matching. he did not say he had received information from people in the team about this.

Joe Mama

Thanks for your comments Joe. I watched the show as well.

I woke up at 4Am this morning and quite frankly I was still too upset to post a thread. Besides your comments are more eloquent. I will add just a tidbit.

However, through the give and take among both sports analysts the common thread I picked up was that JJ was simply not worth the money. The sportscaster from FYI (?) particularly emphasized this issue.

I did not hear either claim inside knowledge. Both ackmowledged the Suns had set the expectation of re-signing JJ and the commentators expressed concerns about the Suns credibility in the future if they do not re-sign JJ. They also acknowledged the fans would be upset.

I have to say, that I gave Bob Young's thoughts about a sign and trade scenarios more weight. Especially since it would accomplish the re-signing of JJ and allow the Suns to get out of this financial dilemma.

I think it was also Bob Young who said the Suns would want to see the contract offer sheet as he thought there might be an upfront payment to JJ of up to $25 million and 70% of the contract payed through the first few years. In other words, Bob Young did throw some tangible things around.

I came away less mad at the Suns management and more upset at JJ if in fact this scenario is correct. Because, obviously if this is correct, he does not want to be a Sun. My feelings, if a player does not want to be on the team, then I do not want him on the team.

I guess everything may become clearer Thursday, however, I would find it hard to be mad at the Suns if they can do a sign and trade with JJ or another player. This, unfortunately, smacks of Antonio McDyess' tenure with the Suns and most readers know he is my least favorite Sun of all-time.

I just do not want to let JJ walk without compensation. If I were a Suns fan (as I avidly am to a fault), I would start looking for other NBA teams out there who can afford JJ and give us something quality back in return.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

"I just do not want to let JJ walk without compensation. If I were a Suns fan (as I avidly am to a fault), I would start looking for other NBA teams out there who can afford JJ and give us something quality back in return. "



LA Clippers are still under the cap...and have endured dissappointment with free agency in recent years...how about a sign and trade to LA for Marco Jaric and Wilcox...we get a needed backup for Nash, another big...and save money to boot.

New Orleans is also under the cap...sign and trade for Dan Dickau and Chris Anderson...same general theme in getting needed PG backup, another big, all while saving money.

 

[HooverDam]

Wouldnt a front loaded contract to JJ actually be good for the Suns? The way I am imagining it, if JJ gets most of his money this year and then it declines, it would leave room for Amares max deal that will kick in next year and grow. Also, KTs deal comes off the books soon (is it after this year, I cant remember), as does Eisley's. Yes for this year a front loaded deal to JJ would be expensive, but it seems like in the long haul it would be better.

 

[lancelet's cousin]

This whole scenario of letting JJ go makes so little sense, and is still backed by only questionable sources (Hoopshype,RealGM & Peter Vescey),that I'm still fairly confident this is all FA Period hoopla.

It is made to seem as we are on the verge of losing Joe, but there really is no evidence. Only the assumptions that Sarver might not match and the fact that the Hawks have offered a max contract. Sarver's silence is leading to speculation, but we really don't know what the silence means.

Not if it involves a team under the cap (like the Hawks). We could re-sign JJ to a max deal and trade him straight up for (for example) Josh Smith, or for a few first round picks, etc... If it's a s&t with a team over the cap, we'd have to take back salary w/in 25%.

I could see something like that going through a cheap owner's mind, unfortunately.

But Atlanta doesn't have to give up anything to get Joe, just a max contract-unless they wanted to lessen the blow of a large contract by shedding a contract of their own in the process. That might be something Billy Knight would consider, especially someone Joe wouldn't mind not having on his future team (another swingman).

But if we did lose him via S&T I think it would be to someone else. Who else is still under the cap now? I've already lost track.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Speaking of the L.A. Clippers, as much as I'd hate to trade away a talented young player in JJ, I would do it if we got Shawn Livingston in return. That would give us a true PG with a load of potential and someone Nash could tutor for the next few years. Unfortunately I don't think the Clippers would bite- but then again, they are the Clips!



2006 World Champions

 

[Mainstreet]

LA Clippers are still under the cap...and have endured dissappointment with free agency in recent years...how about a sign and trade to LA for Marco Jaric and Wilcox...we get a needed backup for Nash, another big...and save money to boot.

New Orleans is also under the cap...sign and trade for Dan Dickau and Chris Anderson...same general theme in getting needed PG backup, another big, all while saving money.

Of the first two options, I would prefer the first simply because there is more talent even if Wilcox has some baggage.

I'm sure there are many more options. I sure would like to get Pachulia from the Bucks... perhaps in a three team trade.

I'm always the optimist, but if the Suns could come away from it with the right players, they might actually be improved although chemistry would probably take longer to develop.

It's hard to believe JJ would choose to screw the Suns so badly as he was a nobody when the Suns received him from Boston and worked so hard to develop his confidence and talent. Yes, I know it's a business, but I think it's JJ disrespecting the Suns, not vice versa.

However, my first item of business come Thursday would be to extend Amare's contract and find out how he feels, if the Suns haven't already done so.

 

[playstation]

we'll know soon enough, but i still think we're matching.

if you have any desire to win a title, you match, that simple.

this is all just good posturing. we've had to deal with it for over 3 weeks, so people might now be starting to believe it, but not i.

 

[Mainstreet]

this is all just good posturing. we've had to deal with it for over 3 weeks, so people might now be starting to believe it, but not i.

However, I believe posturing can sometimes take on a life of it's own. In other words, the two sides may come to a point where they may reach the point of no return. So to speak, too much water over the dam.

The fact remains, do the Suns want to keep JJ (and will he produce like last year), if he does not want to be here? What if JJ played like it was the last year in contract last season and goes back in his shell after he gets the big paycheck as many players do.

 

[cepstrum]

It's hard to believe JJ would choose to screw the Suns so badly as he was a nobody when the Suns received him from Boston and worked so hard to develop his confidence and talent. Yes, I know it's a business, but I think it's JJ disrespecting the Suns, not vice versa.

I dont really see it having to do anything with respect. If the hawks offered him a contract that pays 10 million dollars more for a year less of course he should sign it. If you were offered a job that paid SIGNIFICANTLY more would you take it? Most people would and you cannot blame them at all.

Look I want JJ here as much as the next guy, but I wont be pissed off at him if he takes Atlanta up on that offer and the suns dont match. I would be pissed at the suns for not matching when all along they said that they would.

 

[George O'Brien]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like this is all JJ's agent's doing. It seems like he really wants to screw withe Suns after the way they low balled a year ago.

We sometimes wonder why certain guys fall in the draft for no apparent reason. Sometimes its the agent. Owners decide they just don't want to deal with certain guys.

In JJ's case, he isn't worth the money but the options are pretty limited. The Suns simply cannot afford to lose JJ and there aren't many good sign and trade options than solve their financial problems. I'm sure they've checked.

My guess is that they will bite the bullet, front loading and all. They have too much to lose.

 

[Mainstreet]

I dont really see it having to do anything with respect. If the hawks offered him a contract that pays 10 million dollars more for a year less of course he should sign it. If you were offered a job that paid SIGNIFICANTLY more would you take it? Most people would and you cannot blame them at all.

I used the word "direspect" because I have heard others say that is the terminology JJ's camp have used as well as the word "furious."

I understand the part where a player does not turn away money because that would be poor business. However, if the Suns agree to give him the same total money (perhaps even more on a 6 year contract), but if he is
agreeing for obstacles to be put in the way for the Suns to match, I object.

I believe JJ at least owes the Suns the ability to structure the contract to either keep him or do a sign and trade. I'm not sure JJ would not still be struggling in oblivion if the Suns had not worked with him so hard to develop his talent and confidence.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I used the word "direspect" because I have heard others say that is the terminology JJ's camp have used as well as the word "furious."

I understand the part where a player does not turn away money because that would be poor business. However, if the Suns agree to give him the same total money (perhaps even more on a 6 year contract), but if he is
agreeing for obstacles to be put in the way for the Suns to match, I object.

I believe JJ at least owes the Suns the ability to structure the contract to either keep him or do a sign and trade. I'm not sure JJ would not still be struggling in oblivion if the Suns had not worked with him so hard to develop his talent and confidence.

I think that you are putting the blame of the salary structure solely on JJ which is unfair. The most likely scenario is that he Hawks are going to offer Joe a contract with a lot of obstacles that they think might make the Suns blink. Joe will sign the deal because without the obstacles, there is no way the Hawks would give him the offer.

My guess is that while the obstacles benefit Joe, their implementation is part of the Hawks plan to make the Suns not match.

 

[sunsfn]

I think that you are putting the blame of the salary structure solely on JJ which is unfair. The most likely scenario is that he Hawks are going to offer Joe a contract with a lot of obstacles that they think might make the Suns blink. Joe will sign the deal because without the obstacles, there is no way the Hawks would give him the offer.

My guess is that while the obstacles benefit Joe, their implementation is part of the Hawks plan to make the Suns not match.

I agree, and think they have heard about the low offer last year the suns offered and also have heard how cheap Sarver is............

I put the smiley there, but really do think there are more problems ahead with signings and trades with Sarver.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that you are putting the blame of the salary structure solely on JJ which is unfair. The most likely scenario is that he Hawks are going to offer Joe a contract with a lot of obstacles that they think might make the Suns blink. Joe will sign the deal because without the obstacles, there is no way the Hawks would give him the offer.

I'm not sure. If JJ gave his word to the Hawks to sign their offer sheet, I can understand although I may not like it.

However, I'm wondering if JJ is bound to sign the Hawks offer sheet because he gave his word to sign with them. I do respect a man that keeps his word.

However, what if the Suns prior to Thursday, offered JJ a slightly better five year contract than what Atlanta is offering or even more on a 6 year contract with a different structure. Do you think he would take it? I know JJ has to sign with the Suns if the Suns just match Atlanta's offer sheet with the kickers.

I guess I would like to know for a fact that JJ does not want to be a Phoenix Sun and he is just not re-signed by Phoenix because they matched an offer sheet.

Essentially what I want to know if JJ has any loyalty to the Phoenix Suns aside from money. If not, I hope the Suns sign and trade him prior to his signing an offer sheet with Atlanta (so the Suns don't have to keep him until December or whatever to trade him).

This whole situation clarifies why the Suns signed Raja Bell so quickly.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Suns got Raja before the market exploded for wings.

As for the "JJ is furious" - let's get real. This is JJ we are talking about. Did he lift his eyebrows so we'd know.

There is a long history of RFA's getting matched. I can't remember any of them pouting and forcing a trade. Old veterans might get away with it, but young guys who want to stay around can't afford it. In any case, when the guys go on the floor, they are much more inclined to think about winning than some supposed slight by the owner.