Bordow: Cards stick with losing formula

ajcardfan

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Cards stick with losing formula
By Scott Bordow, Tribune Columnist
January 2, 2007


The news you wanted to hear:
The Cardinals fired coach Dennis Green Monday.
The news you dreaded to hear:
Vice president Michael Bidwill said there would be no structural changes in Arizona’s front office.
“We feel like we have a good plan,” general manager Rod Graves said.

Let’s see. The Cardinals were 16-32 the past three years. No one in the front office had the temerity to challenge Green or override his harebrained decisions. Money was wasted in free agency, and by the end of the 2006 season, Arizona couldn’t fill all the seats inside University of Phoenix Stadium.

Yeah, that’s some plan.

The Cardinals had an opportunity Monday to change course, to sail away from the turbulent seas of the past few seasons.

Instead, they rammed the iceberg again.

In announcing that the front office would remain intact and that Graves has been given a three-year contract extension, Bidwill essentially pointed all of his fingers at Green and said, “Don’t look at us. We had nothing to do with it.”

It was so ludicrous, so laughable, that all you could do was shake your head and wonder how he kept a straight face.

Look, no one can argue that Green didn’t bring his firing upon himself. The Cardinals will be better off without him.

But Green was not solely responsible for Arizona’s failure. As the general manager, it was Graves’ job to be the checks and balances to Green’s ego.
Instead, he sat idly by, silently, as Green made dubious personnel decisions — see Pete Kendall, Oliver Ross, etc. — hired his cronies and fired so many assistant coaches the Cardinals never had any stability.

“What I wanted to do based on Dennis Green’s track record and success was support him,” Graves said.

Support is fine. Blind allegiance, particularly when it hurts the franchise, is not a virtue; it’s a shortcoming.

Graves is as good of a man as you’ll meet in the NFL. He’s decent and honorable, hard-working and loyal. But what has he done to warrant three more years of running the franchise?

Graves has ostensibly been in charge since the end of the 2002 season. The Cardinals’ record since he took over: 20-44.

His most notable personnel move was trading down in the 2003 draft and selecting Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace with Arizona’s two first round picks. (To his credit, he did snag Anquan Boldin in the second round). It was a disastrous deal, not only because Johnson and Pace have been, at best, limited contributors, but because the Cardinals passed on a chance to select Arizona State defensive end Terrell Suggs.

It was learned later on the Cardinals didn’t pick Suggs in part because they were afraid they wouldn’t be able to sign him, and the embarrassment locally would be great. Well, if Graves was doing the Bidwills’ bidding, he did a disservice to himself and his football team.

I’m not advocating that Graves should have been fired along with Green. He has done a terrific job of negotiating and restructuring contracts, and he has a good rapport with players and scouts. His skills are best suited for those duties.
But a general manager has to have a strong and independent voice, and nothing Graves has done in the past suggests he will stand up to the Bidwills — or the head coach — when he needs to.

Perhaps, sadly, that’s why he still has the job.

Graves and Michael Bidwill stopped answering questions about 18 minutes into Monday’s press conference. They said they had a coach to hire.

Good luck to whoever gets the job.

He’s going to need it.
Contact Scott Bordow by email, or phone (480) 898-6598
 

D-Dogg

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Well, if they are to learn from their mistakes (not challenging Green) then articles like this will help.

I'm not as doom and gloom on Graves being extended...would have rather seen a new GM in here, but it is crystal clear now that Graves is running the show (was not clear before with Mike B, Green and Graves looking like a three headed GM). If he can't get it done the next three years, he will be gone.
 
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ajcardfan

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If he can't get it done the next three years, he will be gone.

I only have so much lifetime left D-Dogg, three years is too much for this team to figure out how to win.


I'm counting on the "luck" factor, that's how desperate it appears to me.
 

Treesquid PhD

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Well, if they are to learn from their mistakes (not challenging Green) then articles like this will help.

I'm not as doom and gloom on Graves being extended...would have rather seen a new GM in here, but it is crystal clear now that Graves is running the show (was not clear before with Mike B, Green and Graves looking like a three headed GM). If he can't get it done the next three years, he will be gone.

Lol, bank on it.
 

devilalum

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The more things change the more they stay the same.
 

nidan

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Well, if they are to learn from their mistakes (not challenging Green) then articles like this will help.

I'm not as doom and gloom on Graves being extended...would have rather seen a new GM in here, but it is crystal clear now that Graves is running the show (was not clear before with Mike B, Green and Graves looking like a three headed GM). If he can't get it done the next three years, he will be gone.

That's reasonable. GMs take longer to make their mark than coaches
 

conraddobler

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Meanwhile in three years the window starts getting tighter on getting Boldin or Fitz a trophy, contracts come up, everyone including us gets older waiting for the hammer of the obvious to finally strike these idiots on the head.
 

conraddobler

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That's reasonable. GMs take longer to make their mark than coaches

The one two punch of Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace is a tough one to avoid leaving a really clear mark from.
 

Russ Smith

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Meanwhile in three years the window starts getting tighter on getting Boldin or Fitz a trophy, contracts come up, everyone including us gets older waiting for the hammer of the obvious to finally strike these idiots on the head.

Yep that's my take too. The Cards can't make decisions on a 3 year window now. The one thing that's clear is that Green left them enough talent to challenge for the division next year if they execute correctly this offseason.

There's nothing in Graves' past that suggests he's the guy to do that with the draft and free agency. So that means the new coach had better be good.

It does get harder and harder to stick by this team but what else are fans supposed to do?

Thank god for Ben Howland and UCLA so that when the Cards get too frustrating I can always watch basketball.
 

D-Dogg

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Thank god for Ben Howland and UCLA so that when the Cards get too frustrating I can always watch basketball.

Ben Howland is a badass coach. I knew him pretty well at NAU when he coached there, as I worked in the athletic dept while going to school. Awesome guy and hell of a coach.
 

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If nothing else maybe Graves has learned alot from Green when it comes to the draft.
 

Russ Smith

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Ben Howland is a badass coach. I knew him pretty well at NAU when he coached there, as I worked in the athletic dept while going to school. Awesome guy and hell of a coach.

They should clone him and let the clone coach the Cardinals.

I keep waiting for the Cards version of Ben. Mac was basically Steve lavin, we just need to find Howland in a football coach, easier said than done of course.
 

D-Dogg

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They should clone him and let the clone coach the Cardinals.

I keep waiting for the Cards version of Ben. Mac was basically Steve lavin, we just need to find Howland in a football coach, easier said than done of course.

:thumbup:
 
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ajcardfan

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If nothing else maybe Graves has learned alot from Green when it comes to the draft.

See, this is what we're reduced to. Instead of getting someone with a good track record to run the show, we have to hope Graves "learned" something.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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That's reasonable. GMs take longer to make their mark than coaches
Are you basing this on anything factual or is it merely an opinion? Scott Pioli took the Pats job in 2000 and won a Super Bowl in 2001. And the Saints GM was hired not too long ago and he has them rolling just four years later. I also don't recall the Tampa Bay or Cincinnati turnarounds taking this long either.
 

conraddobler

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Yep that's my take too. The Cards can't make decisions on a 3 year window now. The one thing that's clear is that Green left them enough talent to challenge for the division next year if they execute correctly this offseason.

There's nothing in Graves' past that suggests he's the guy to do that with the draft and free agency. So that means the new coach had better be good.

It does get harder and harder to stick by this team but what else are fans supposed to do?

Thank god for Ben Howland and UCLA so that when the Cards get too frustrating I can always watch basketball.


Well as fans on a message board all we can do I guess is express our exasperation at some of these moves.

You take an obvious situation like firing Green then instead of completing that line of thought by getting rid of the Graves part of Green and Graves and finally Graves in turn completes the fiasco by introducting the maybe we can keep our assistants dynamic.

I'll say this if Graves is just manuvering to keep the option of these assistants open for the next guy kudos to him, if he's doing it to manipulate how many actually stay and skews the search process towards those who believe that this staff is worthy then all hope is lost.
 
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ajcardfan

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I'll say this if Graves is just manuvering to keep the option of these assistants open for the next guy kudos to him, if he's doing it to manipulate how many actually stay and skews the search process towards those who believe that this staff is worthy then all hope is lost.

And that's why my feeling is the coach will be Chow or Sherman with almost all of these assistants retained. They certainly see this angle and are the most likely to take it, IMO, since this could well be their last chance at a NFL head coaching job. The younger guys still have a lot of time left to get jobs elsewhere and are more likely to be less enthusiastic about our holdovers.
 

conraddobler

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And that's why my feeling is the coach will be Chow or Sherman with almost all of these assistants retained. They certainly see this angle and are the most likely to take it, IMO, since this could well be their last chance at a NFL head coaching job. The younger guys still have a lot of time left to get jobs elsewhere and are more likely to be less enthusiastic about our holdovers.

The Chiefs did that one year when Gunther Cunningham got promoted when Marty left.

It didn't work.

We did that when Tobin left and Mac took the job.

It didn't work.

Sometimes it's frustrating, just give me a 30 minute meeting with these butt clowns and if they still do it then I at least tried.
 

Russ Smith

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And that's why my feeling is the coach will be Chow or Sherman with almost all of these assistants retained. They certainly see this angle and are the most likely to take it, IMO, since this could well be their last chance at a NFL head coaching job. The younger guys still have a lot of time left to get jobs elsewhere and are more likely to be less enthusiastic about our holdovers.

Yep that's why I think Chow is probably the guy they want, it just seems like they're operating with that in mind.

He wouldn't be my first choice at all but he might be a lightning in a bottle type hire in that he can coach QB's, has a history with leinart, and should be able to rev up the offense. Just not sure if he's got what it takes to run an entire team, and at his age you still have to worry how long?

I don't know much about Sherman.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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That's the first i've heard of the reason for passing on Suggs.I don't why that should surprise me that they base their decisions on PR instead of what actually heps the team.It's typical Cardinals. Like Russ, that leads me to believe Chow will be the choice just because the Cards think people will like it because he coached Leinart. There is no way he is the best candidate for the job.Which means he'll get it.
 

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His most notable personnel move was trading down in the 2003 draft and selecting Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace with Arizona’s two first round picks. (To his credit, he did snag Anquan Boldin in the second round). It was a disastrous deal, not only because Johnson and Pace have been, at best, limited contributors, but because the Cardinals passed on a chance to select Arizona State defensive end Terrell Suggs.

It was learned later on the Cardinals didn’t pick Suggs in part because they were afraid they wouldn’t be able to sign him, and the embarrassment locally would be great. Well, if Graves was doing the Bidwills’ bidding, he did a disservice to himself and his football team.

Um... wow. Just, wow. How anyone can now say that Rod Graves has the Cardinals' win-loss record at the front of his mind is totally beyond me.
 

conraddobler

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Yep that's why I think Chow is probably the guy they want, it just seems like they're operating with that in mind.

He wouldn't be my first choice at all but he might be a lightning in a bottle type hire in that he can coach QB's, has a history with leinart, and should be able to rev up the offense. Just not sure if he's got what it takes to run an entire team, and at his age you still have to worry how long?

I don't know much about Sherman.

Russ you know Chow better than most, is he organized?

Attention to detail?

Because if you read their list it seems they want a A1 tactician and strategist is Chow like that?

I'd say if he is then he's the guy they are targeting and you have to think Matt has a say in this, don't tell me they didn't talk to him about it.
 

football karma

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Russ you know Chow better than most, is he organized?

Attention to detail?

Because if you read their list it seems they want a A1 tactician and strategist is Chow like that?

I'd say if he is then he's the guy they are targeting and you have to think Matt has a say in this, don't tell me they didn't talk to him about it.

Conrad -- that seems to be the common thread

Sherman was known as the ultimate stickler for detail and organization

Caldwell has that rep as well

this might be the classic "hire the opposite of the last guy" syndrome --

Denny was the classic big picture, dont even go to offensive game planning meetings, delegator kinda guy -- it could be that his success in Minny was due to having assistants like Billick, Tice and Dungy -- detail guys to implement Denny's vision.
 

Russ Smith

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Russ you know Chow better than most, is he organized?

Attention to detail?

Because if you read their list it seems they want a A1 tactician and strategist is Chow like that?

I'd say if he is then he's the guy they are targeting and you have to think Matt has a say in this, don't tell me they didn't talk to him about it.

Chow is an offensive genius, very organized, very bright. The reason he's never got a HC job is he's apparently terrible in interviews and everyone comes away thinking this guy won't close the deal on recruits(college) or free agents(NFL) he's just not aggressive enough.

Chow has a LONG history of tutoring QB's, all the guys at BYU, Rivers at NC State, Palmer and Leinart (and Booty) at USC.

But that's really always been his role, offense, and QB's, he's never had the whole ball of wax and I think that's what makes him a tough guy to peg.

If he were 50 you might say ok it's his time, but he'll be 61 in May. I just think the way the Cards are operating it seems they're trying to hire a guy who's an offensive guy, and plug him into most of the existing defensive staff.
5 of the 6 named guys are offensive guys right?

My fear is you hire a 60 year old guy as a first time HC, you better have the infrastructure around him to help him, and who here honestly believes that the Cards have that in place with Graves, the Bidwills, and Clancy Pendergast?

But I do think the reason we got all those Pete Carroll and Fisher as the next coach rumors could well have been that we were talking to both guys about Chow?

One interesting thing I read on a USC site. Apparently Carroll and Chow didn't exactly part on good terms, Chow thought he had the Stanford job sewed up and reportedly was recruiting players that USC was recruiting telling them come with me to Stanford. Carroll found out and was going to demote or fire Chow but he didn't get the Stanford job and then left for the Titans.
So that would punch holes in my theory of why we might have been talking to PC.
 
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