Boris is suns best leaper

[nowagimp]

I heard on the game last night that one of the suns (name?) trainers said Boris Diaw had the highest measured vertical jump on the team. I was a little stunned by that revelation with the Matrix on board. Boris seems to drive to the basket with alot of speed, but his vertical didnt seem all that great on his finishes. I expect that if he has the best vertical, its just a timing issue. This is plausible(timing issue) as the euro players are not especially focused on the dunk aspect of the game. If Boris truly does have this great vertical it will probably take further development to make use of it. With Boris' great length and an apparently great vertical, his upside may be better than I thought. I am glad the the suns extended him, now all he needs is to be more aggressive and develop the inside game that is commensurate with his physical skills. Imagine that, he handles the ball better than any swing player on the suns(and most other teams) and has the best vertical with outstanding length at 6'8". Now he must be force fed the ball on offense to keep his aggresiveness up.

 

[devilfan02]

Still don't believe it. Marion has to have the highest vertical, I owuld even say Amare has a higher vert too

 

[jbeecham]

I was surprised when they said that on the broadcast too. I could see Diaw having the highest vertical reach with his long arms, but vertical leap would be shocking. If it's true, then he needs to start dunking over people on a nightly basis. Wasn't it Gary Bender that said this though? That guy never knows what the hell he's talking about.

 

[Errntknght]

It was Bender as I recall and I figured he had found a way to misunderstand what he'd heard from the staff about Boris' vertical. Not ten minutes later I saw someone get up high for a rebound and darned if it wasn't Diaw. I still don't think Bender is right but maybe he what heard was that Boris has the highest standing vertical, which isn't quite so hard to believe.

 

[Card Trader]

Maybe he was jumping for a croissant?

 

[Goldfield]

Bs

 

[brady_44]

Maybe he was jumping for a croissant?

LOL nice. But ya, Marion has it by a lot.

 

[nowagimp]

I was surprised when they said that on the broadcast too. I could see Diaw having the highest vertical reach with his long arms, but vertical leap would be shocking. If it's true, then he needs to start dunking over people on a nightly basis. Wasn't it Gary Bender that said this though? That guy never knows what the hell he's talking about.

Amare appears to have the highest vertical reach on the team, I just cant believe that Diaw>amare in reach. Gary Bender said it, but he heard it from one the training staff and there have been reports of Diaw making some fantastic dunks in practice, though his jumps appear ill-timed when he dunks in a game. I dont know, but with all the reports of his athleticism, it may be true. Kirlenko has never been a great dunker, but he really gets up there, he blocks shots that only 2-3 NBA players could block, yet his dunks are akward(fuel for the euros are bad dunkers argument).

Marion is a lightning quick jumper whose vertical had degraded quite a bit, according to himself(6"?). Marions timing is impeccable though, he almost always makes the play at the top of his jump.

 

[mribnik]

Diaw did have some impressive dunks at a French dunk contest, including a free throw line dunk. It would surprise me that he had a higher vert than Marion, but it wouldn't surprise me that he has a much higher vert than we thought he did based on the way he plays.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Yeah I call bs on this boris diaw hardly dunks at all mainly lays it up for the basket I would eaither have to go with Amare or Marion as our best leaper probally Marion though.

 

[basketballfan]

Amare appears to have the highest vertical reach on the team


I know that Shawn's vertical is better than Amare's. Anyways, when I first saw the thread, I figured that someone was writing their opinion that Boris was the suns best leaper. I was thinking that the guy who started this was crazy. Guess not though. As for Boris, I wouldn't think that he would have the highest vertical on the team, but it is pretty impressive to dunk on someone with two-hands like he did on Dirk last year. But then again, Shawn has had his nuts on Dirk's head when he's dunked so I'd still give him the nod.

Watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1n7RYU4GhU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1QWcKEYhwA

 

[Joe Mama]

One of the guys the Phoenix Suns brought in this summer for the draft actually reached higher than the apparatus they used to measure vertical leap. I remember there was an article that mentioned this. It also said that only two players had done it before. I know one of them was Boris Diaw, and I think the other was Amare Stoudemire.

Joe

 

[mribnik]

One of the guys the Phoenix Suns brought in this summer for the draft actually reached higher than the apparatus they used to measure vertical leap. I remember there was an article that mentioned this. It also said that only two players had done it before. I know one of them was Boris Diaw, and I think the other was Amare Stoudemire.

Joe

I'm not sure he did it while in Phoenix, but I remember reading about how Antonio McDyess out-jumped the measuring stick before.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I watched video of the French dunk contest. He put it down effortlessly from beyond the free throw line. It would not surprise me at all that Boris has the highest vert on the team.

Marion's uniqueness is not in how high he gets, but how fast he can come down and go up. He does not gather himself at all, he just bounces like he's on pogo sticks.

Amare's recovering from microfracture (sorry for stating the obvious).

 

[Bufalay]

I still find it hard to believe that this is Boris Diaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47apfuHCgrA

 

[slinslin]

One of the guys the Phoenix Suns brought in this summer for the draft actually reached higher than the apparatus they used to measure vertical leap. I remember there was an article that mentioned this. It also said that only two players had done it before. I know one of them was Boris Diaw, and I think the other was Amare Stoudemire.

Joe

Josh Smith was one, pretty sure and Amare.

 

[mathbzh]

It is hard to believe. But even Marion or Amare are better leaper, we all know that Boris could be a greatdunker.
The kid is smart, athletic, as amazing hands. With a bigger ego he could be a superstar but I am afraid he has too much respect for other player. I am afraid he will never use is full potential.

Just one thing

This is plausible(timing issue) as the euro players are not especially focused on the dunk aspect of the game.

This is not true for french players (Pietrus brothers, Gelabale,...).

 

[nowagimp]

I watched video of the French dunk contest. He put it down effortlessly from beyond the free throw line. It would not surprise me at all that Boris has the highest vert on the team.

Marion's uniqueness is not in how high he gets, but how fast he can come down and go up. He does not gather himself at all, he just bounces like he's on pogo sticks.

Amare's recovering from microfracture (sorry for stating the obvious).

This I can believe. I remember reading than Amare had a 36" vertical, and Marion had a 41" as a rookie, but has lost some due to age, NBA wear and tear. Certainly, Amare does not have a 36" vertical now after the surgery, but he is a quick jumper with recovering skills. I have often seen amare get some nice blocks with pretty late jumps, a sign of a quick jumper. The quickness argument is huge, you can jump over a guy who has a little better vertical if you can do it quickly, for example if he needs to gather himself off a fake. Being a quick jumper has great advantages, I used to have a quick jump and used it all the time to shoot over taller players or guys with equal or slightly better jumping ability. Marion is maybe the quickest jumper I ever saw in 30 years of watching ball. Diaw seems to need to gather himself to jump and he looks akward with his footwork and timing on the finish. Its almost like his strides are too long to allow for a good jump on the finish. Last year there were reports that Marion and Diaw were the two best dunkers on the team at practice and I didnt believe it about Diaw. Now I'm not so sure, it may be that Diaw has more athletic upside than I thought.

 

[nowagimp]

I still find it hard to believe that this is Boris Diaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47apfuHCgrA

That is a pretty unbelievable dunk, I never saw that one. The significance of dunking from beyond the free throw line pretty much convinces me Boris has a great vertical. Only a dozen or so NBA players have ever done it on film. Jordan never did it, Kobe never did it, thats incredible. Boris may be longer than those guys, but those guys had a 40"(Jordan), 38"(kobe) verticals. Its basic parametric physics, that for the same standing reach, the guy who can dunk from further out has a better vertical. Dr J dunked from beyond the FT line on a number of occasions, including a live game. D WIlkins has done it on film as well, but its pretty rare.

 

[basketballfan]

This I can believe. I remember reading than Amare had a 36" vertical, and Marion had a 41" as a rookie, but has lost some due to age, NBA wear and tear. Certainly, Amare does not have a 36" vertical now after the surgery, but he is a quick jumper with recovering skills. I have often seen amare get some nice blocks with pretty late jumps, a sign of a quick jumper. The quickness argument is huge, you can jump over a guy who has a little better vertical if you can do it quickly, for example if he needs to gather himself off a fake. Being a quick jumper has great advantages, I used to have a quick jump and used it all the time to shoot over taller players or guys with equal or slightly better jumping ability. Marion is maybe the quickest jumper I ever saw in 30 years of watching ball. Diaw seems to need to gather himself to jump and he looks akward with his footwork and timing on the finish. Its almost like his strides are too long to allow for a good jump on the finish. Last year there were reports that Marion and Diaw were the two best dunkers on the team at practice and I didnt believe it about Diaw. Now I'm not so sure, it may be that Diaw has more athletic upside than I thought.

Yeah, nice post. I believe your right about their verticals. I heard that Amare's was around 37 before surgery and I know that Marion's is around 40. It was even better when he was younger. That's why I've been confused when people say that Amare's vertical is better than Shawn's. He just has more power and dunks on people more, but there's no way he jumps higher. I once read that when Shawn was younger, he could grab pennies off the top of the backboard. That's AMAZING! I like what you wrote about jumping quicker cause you're exactly right. I've seen Amare dunk on lots of people that jump higher than him. I think part of it is quickness like you said. I also think part of it is raw power and sheer determination. Remember that dunk on Stromile Swift a couple of years ago in the playoffs. Stromile probably has 5 or more inches on Amare's vertical, but he's quick off the ground and can pull it off. That's why we've seen him dunk over so many people over the last 4 years. Good post.

 

[elindholm]

Its basic parametric physics, that for the same standing reach, the guy who can dunk from further out has a better vertical.

I think you need to stop weighing in as a math/physics authority; you are routinely embarrassing yourself. You've ignored velocity (running speed) in your "basic" analysis.

 

[Suns_fan69]

That is a pretty unbelievable dunk, I never saw that one. The significance of dunking from beyond the free throw line pretty much convinces me Boris has a great vertical. Only a dozen or so NBA players have ever done it on film. Jordan never did it, Kobe never did it, thats incredible. Boris may be longer than those guys, but those guys had a 40"(Jordan), 38"(kobe) verticals. Its basic parametric physics, that for the same standing reach, the guy who can dunk from further out has a better vertical. Dr J dunked from beyond the FT line on a number of occasions, including a live game. D WIlkins has done it on film as well, but its pretty rare.

Couple things here:

I'm pretty sure Jordan did a FT line dunk in the 88 ASG to win it... (86?) Unless you're contesting that he can't do it from 'beyond' the FT line which may be true but it's not clear that Boris actually did that from the video; the video resolution is too low to tell for sure.

Also, I don't agree with 'for the same standing reach, the guy who can dunk from further out has a better vertical line'. All it means to me is that the person who dunks from farther out is able to maintain the height of his jump better (going faster?). There's a difference between vertical jump and distance jump (hence both the High Jump and Long Jump in the olympics) and being good at one doesn't necessarily translate to the other.

 

[nowagimp]

Its basic parametric physics, that for the same standing reach, the guy who can dunk from further out has a better vertical.

I think you need to stop weighing in as a math/physics authority; you are routinely embarrassing yourself. You've ignored velocity (running speed) in your "basic" analysis.

"I think you need" to learn how to make some simplifying assumptions to help your "basic" analysis. But they dont teach that in introductory classical physics do they?

Velocity variations CAN be ignored in this case -a comparison of world class athletes, like Diaw Marion Kobe etc, with similar physical attributes- who are running while trying to handle a basketball and execute the necessary footwork for a flying dunk. But recognizing that would take an investment in time wouldnt it?

 

[nowagimp]

Couple things here:

I'm pretty sure Jordan did a FT line dunk in the 88 ASG to win it... (86?) Unless you're contesting that he can't do it from 'beyond' the FT line which may be true but it's not clear that Boris actually did that from the video; the video resolution is too low to tell for sure.

Also, I don't agree with 'for the same standing reach, the guy who can dunk from further out has a better vertical line'. All it means to me is that the person who dunks from farther out is able to maintain the height of his jump better (going faster?). There's a difference between vertical jump and distance jump (hence both the High Jump and Long Jump in the olympics) and being good at one doesn't necessarily translate to the other.

there was a movie on the internet showing jordan overstepped the foul line on that one by half a sneaker. I thought I saw Diaw leave at or before the stripe. Dr J had the same reported vertical as MJ(40-41") and dunked from beyond(not at) the foul line at least 3-4 times on camera. He did have like a 3" standing reach advantage over MJ though. This is all debatable of course, but my premise is that 6'6" to 6'8" athletes have similar running velocity(not acceleration), just like world class track athletes competing in the same event.

 

[tobiazz]

"I think you need" to learn how to make some simplifying assumptions to help your "basic" analysis. But they dont teach that in introductory classical physics do they?

Velocity variations CAN be ignored in this case -a comparison of world class athletes, like Diaw Marion Kobe etc, with similar physical attributes- who are running while trying to handle a basketball and execute the necessary footwork for a flying dunk. But recognizing that would take an investment in time wouldnt it?

But their velocities may be significantly difference. Assuming that the differences in velocity and other factors are negligible is like assuming the same for vertical leap. I'm sure there are players with the same vertical leap as AI that cannot dunk from as far out as him. There is probably a greater spread in speed than vertical leap height among NBA players.