Boris or Jalen Rose?

[TucsonDevil]

As badly as Boris has been performing, wouldn't Jalen be a better option on the floor right now?

Here is Boris' output the last several games:
Jan 23 @ WSH - 41 min, 14 pts, 4 RB, 7 AST, 3 TO, 0-2 FT
Jan 24 @ NYK - 33 min, 7 pts, 6 RB, 6 AST, 3 TO, 1-3 FT
Jan 26 @ Mil - 36 min, 11 pts, 3 RB, 0 AST, 1 TO, 3-4 FT
Jan 28 @ Clev - 31 min, 4 pts, 1 RB, 8 AST, 1 TO, 0-0 FT
Jan 29 @ Min - 33 min, 12 pts, 0 RB, 3 AST, 0 TO, 2-2 FT
Feb 1 SAS - 38 min, 16 pts, 6 RB, 4 AST, 5 TO, 5-7 FT
Feb 3 Utah - 42 min, 15 pts, 8 RB, 5 AST, 5 TO, 2-7 FT
Feb 5 Den - 39 min, 4 pts, 2 RB, 6 AST, 3 TO, 0-0 FT

Those are just the last couple of weeks, but for the entire month of January, Boris avg 10.4 pts, 3.8 RB, 5.6 AST, 1.7 TO and 51% FT shooting. I struggle to see the justification for his high minutes with these numbers? Some will argue that there are only so many points to go around - however, on a PHX team that creates more possesions, there are more points to go around. I also don't like sloppy play of Boris at times. I was surprised to see his TOs were only 5,5, and 3 the last three games - it felt like 10, 15, and 8.

Wouldn't Jalen Rose provide us with those similiar numbers? in fewer minutes? With Nash coming down with this shoulder injury, Bell's knee, and Kurt's elbow - Coach D has to begin exploring creative ways to give minutes to other potential producers. He says that he won't put anyone in that doesn't fit the style of the Suns - But how much is Boris really producing right now?

 

[Chaplin]

Boris is one of those players that does a lot of little things--and I know that Jalen Rose couldn't guard the guys Boris does.

I'd rather see both of them, but if I had to make a choice, I'd still have to go with Boris--if just for defensive reasons.

 

[elindholm]

It's hard to ask the question without any idea of what Rose would produce. But overall, Diaw's play has dropped off a lot from last season. It isn't only that his numbers are down across the board, but that he's passive and sloppy. He facilitates the offense and is one of those "second-to-last pass" guys, so his contribution is better than his numbers suggest -- but it's still low.

When Thomas is back healthy, I'd like to see James Jones start to get more of Diaw's minutes. Jones can't handle the ball or pass like Diaw, but he's a better rebounder, at least as good a defender, and an able shooter (at least he usually is, we think, as long as the leather ball is in play).

Also, as long as Banks can keep himself somewhat under control and perhaps work his way back into the rotation, the pressure on Diaw to be the primary playmaker while Nash is out will be reduced.

Overall, Diaw needs a major wakeup call, but I don't know what it should be.

 

[Quicksand]

The main reason I don't like Boris now is when he said that he didn't pick up a basketball all off season, and it shows.

 

[PHX 32]

Overall, Diaw needs a major wakeup call, but I don't know what it should be.

............Boris is producing in ever category, granted his points have dropped off from last season, but thats got a lot to do with the fact that we have a big power forward down low name Amare whom we did not have last year.......anyone remember that???? Trust me, if Boris was not on the court, the ball movement would not be as smooth and clean as it is. How many times have we seen Boris to Marion alley-oops? He is the only other player out there with great vision other than Nash.

 

[jbeecham]

The main reason I don't like Boris now is when he said that he didn't pick up a basketball all off season, and it shows.

Actually he played for France in the World Championships during the summer and then took 1.5-2 months off right before training camp and put on about 15 lbs.

 

[elindholm]

Boris is producing in ever category, granted his points have dropped off from last season, but thats got a lot to do with the fact that we have a big power forward down low name Amare whom we did not have last year

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Over and over, Diaw is passing up scoring opportunities in the paint in order to kick the ball back out, and only sometimes to an open shooter. Stoudemire's return hasn't impacted anyone else's numbers so severely, so why is it an excuse for Diaw?

And by the way, all of his other numbers are down too. The falloff in rebounds can be attributed to Stoudemire. Not so the reductions in assists, steals, and blocks. Only his turnovers are matching last year's rate.

How many times have we seen Boris to Marion alley-oops?

Actually, we've seen more failed attempts than successes on this play recently. Both of Diaw's lob attempts last night were off the mark, and the second one was among the worst lob passes I've ever seen, taking a chunk out of the wrong side of the backboard.

 

[Chaz]

It's the dog days of the season right now.

I guess people need to find something to complain about.

Boris is a player that can go off at any time and is invaluable against the zone. He has been a little sloppy lately but after the All-Star break I expect the whole team to pick up the intensity for the stretch run.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I guess people need to find something to complain about.

Of any season the Suns have played in the history of their franchise, there has never been a better outlook for a championship than this year. However, now I am worried with this latest set back with Nash. Suppose it is something to be very concerened about? Suppose Bell's knee never gets enough rest and this injury lingers? Suppose Kurt comes back in 'not so good shape'? These are real concerns - and the fact that Coach D won't address them by sharing minutes with others on the bench (that are capable) can derail the championship run.

I'm not looking to complain - I'm trying to find possible solutions to REAL problems. Injuries are REAL problems.

As far as Boris is concerned... I am the most concerned with his HUGE minutes and lack of FT attempts!!!! and when he does get to the line, he stinks. This is evidence of his lack of concentration! Passing out when he has a clear lane to the basket, missing FTs... those are real problems! He is not as aggressive as he was last year, and certainly not at a level that he needs to be if he is getting 38 min a night!

 

[CaptainInsano]

If he was instead making 5-6 mil per instead of 9 this wouldn't be a problem.

Blame denver.

*edit: You know, maybe KT when he gets back should get some of those minutes. He could take the 18 mins he was getting before the injury but maybe take 12 min chunk out of diaws unproductive minutes. During his 18 mins I think KT goes for 7 pts 7 reb so the production is there, since we need boards and diaw is stinking it up on the boards lately what is more important:

Diaw with his 3-5 assists but 2-4 TO
KT with an extra 5-6 pts 5-6 reb a night

I am sure KT could handle 30 mins a game

Think about it. The scoring is still there because diaw has been so on and off, lose some ball movement but diaw has been sloppy, gain more solid points and rebounds IMO.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree with some of his production issues. However, the reason you can't directly compare what he did last season is because we ran the pick and roll with Boris and went to him with Amare out. We are not doing that this year. Boris isn't the first or 2nd option anymore. So there is no way his numbers wouldn't be down. By biggest problem with Boris is he is not aggressive sometimes.

I would LOVE to see Jalen Rose out there. The only problem is that Boris is a better defender then Jalen. If you give those minutes to Jalen then we are a worse defensive team on the floor. I think you need to stick with Boris and find Jalen Rose minutes another way.

I think it's ridiculous that we have a talent like Jalen Rose and kind find minutes for him.

 

[Chaz]

I guess I should rephrase then: People need something to worry about.

Coach gets paid to worry about stuff. I just try to enjoy watching the games and supporting the team.

I think injuries and potential injuries are more of a worry than whether or not Boris is playing up to his potential in February.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Honestly the man love for Jalen Rose is strange. He doesn't run our offense, isn't fast enough to stay on the court, and has shown little desire to play defense.

Everytime he comes in, he plays one on one basketball and that isn't our style. While I haven't been a huge fan of Diaw this season, at least he has the quickness to defend guys.

 

[Covert Rain]

Honestly the man love for Jalen Rose is strange. He doesn't run our offense, isn't fast enough to stay on the court, and has shown little desire to play defense.

Everytime he comes in, he plays one on one basketball and that isn't our style. While I haven't been a huge fan of Diaw this season, at least he has the quickness to defend guys.

I don't buy he is not fast enough. Kurt is usually the last one down the court every single time he is on the floor. The Suns seem to run with 4 guys on the court just fine when Kurt is in there. They could do it with Jalen.

I have not see enough of Jalen on the court to say he couldn't be effective in our system with the starters.

 

[Skkorpion]

Honestly the man love for Jalen Rose is strange. He doesn't run our offense, isn't fast enough to stay on the court, and has shown little desire to play defense.

Everytime he comes in, he plays one on one basketball and that isn't our style. While I haven't been a huge fan of Diaw this season, at least he has the quickness to defend guys.

Agree completely.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I don't buy he is not fast enough. Kurt is usually the last one down the court every single time he is on the floor. The Suns seem to run with 4 guys on the court just fine when Kurt is in there. They could do it with Jalen.

I have not see enough of Jalen on the court to say he couldn't be effective in our system with the starters.

Kurt Thomas is a 4-5.

Jalen Rose is a 1-3.

You can't have the guys who trigger the breaks be the slowest guys on the court. That is how you never defend a fast break and never get a fast break.

 

[JS22]

As badly as Boris has been performing, wouldn't Jalen be a better option on the floor right now?

Here is Boris' output the last several games:
Jan 23 @ WSH - 41 min, 14 pts, 4 RB, 7 AST, 3 TO, 0-2 FT
Jan 24 @ NYK - 33 min, 7 pts, 6 RB, 6 AST, 3 TO, 1-3 FT
Jan 26 @ Mil - 36 min, 11 pts, 3 RB, 0 AST, 1 TO, 3-4 FT
Jan 28 @ Clev - 31 min, 4 pts, 1 RB, 8 AST, 1 TO, 0-0 FT
Jan 29 @ Min - 33 min, 12 pts, 0 RB, 3 AST, 0 TO, 2-2 FT
Feb 1 SAS - 38 min, 16 pts, 6 RB, 4 AST, 5 TO, 5-7 FT
Feb 3 Utah - 42 min, 15 pts, 8 RB, 5 AST, 5 TO, 2-7 FT
Feb 5 Den - 39 min, 4 pts, 2 RB, 6 AST, 3 TO, 0-0 FT

Those are just the last couple of weeks, but for the entire month of January, Boris avg 10.4 pts, 3.8 RB, 5.6 AST, 1.7 TO and 51% FT shooting. I struggle to see the justification for his high minutes with these numbers? Some will argue that there are only so many points to go around - however, on a PHX team that creates more possesions, there are more points to go around. I also don't like sloppy play of Boris at times. I was surprised to see his TOs were only 5,5, and 3 the last three games - it felt like 10, 15, and 8.

Wouldn't Jalen Rose provide us with those similiar numbers? in fewer minutes? With Nash coming down with this shoulder injury, Bell's knee, and Kurt's elbow - Coach D has to begin exploring creative ways to give minutes to other potential producers. He says that he won't put anyone in that doesn't fit the style of the Suns - But how much is Boris really producing right now?

A lot of people were arguing with me over the value of Diaw. I said there was no way he was worth over 8 million a year, and that 8 million was even a stretch. With Amare coming back Boris has been soft and definitely not worth his massive contract.

Diaw is a decent player who, by the end of the year, should average about 13/6/6. Is that worth his contract and the potential loss of Marion? I don't really think so.

 

[The Commish]

A lot of people were arguing with me over the value of Diaw. I said there was no way he was worth over 8 million a year, and that 8 million was even a stretch. With Amare coming back Boris has been soft and definitely not worth his massive contract.

Diaw is a decent player who, by the end of the year, should average about 13/6/6. Is that worth his contract and the potential loss of Marion? I don't really think so.

For a lot of teams he is worth that money. He is a playmaker in the frontcourt and acts as a second PG with his ability to distribute. You may not think he's worth the money, but as long as the league is devoid of great passers then his value in the eyes of another team will always remain high.

 

[Covert Rain]

Kurt Thomas is a 4-5.

Jalen Rose is a 1-3.

You can't have the guys who trigger the breaks be the slowest guys on the court. That is how you never defend a fast break and never get a fast break.

9 times out of 10 the Suns get out on the fast break when one of the guards has the ball. Assuming Jalen gets minutes at the SF and your not playing him on the court without both Nash or Barbosa they would be just fine.

The Suns have shown that they can get a fast break going as long as a guard has the ball and they have at least 2 other guys down the court. You wouldn't depend on Jalen to trigger a fast break anymore then you would Kurt.

To me the key would be making sure Jalen is not on the court at the same time Kurt is if that is a legit concern. Having said that, the Suns have been playing more HC sets then in previous years. Something Jalen can play in. Something that will be needed come playoff time.

Maybe in the end Jalen can't play in any set with this team. I just want to find out if this guy can help now. If not, lets get a trade going to bring someone in here who can.

 

[PHX 32]

Whatever this is just ridiculous, no matter what happens with this team, someone on this board will find SOMETHING to complain about. I honestly think that if we were 47-0 right now, someone would be whining about some insignificant problem with the team. YES Boris' numbers are down from last year, but we have won 15 and 17 games in a row this year, not many teams can say that in the history of the NBA. On top of that, we are competing in the most competitive conference that there has been in a long long time in this league , and to be at the top is just amazing. I wonder, if we were to win the title, which I believe is very highly probable, would that shut most of you up? Or would you complain that the trophy isn't big enough or something ridiculous like that?

 

[TucsonDevil]

Whatever this is just ridiculous, no matter what happens with this team, someone on this board will find SOMETHING to complain about. I honestly think that if we were 47-0 right now, someone would be whining about some insignificant problem with the team. YES Boris' numbers are down from last year, but we have won 15 and 17 games in a row this year, not many teams can say that in the history of the NBA. On top of that, we are competing in the most competitive conference that there has been in a long long time in this league , and to be at the top is just amazing. I wonder, if we were to win the title, which I believe is very highly probable, would that shut most of you up? Or would you complain that the trophy isn't big enough or something ridiculous like that?

Thanks for your insight into my psyche. I guess I would complain about the trophy size...

 

[JS22]

Whatever this is just ridiculous, no matter what happens with this team, someone on this board will find SOMETHING to complain about. I honestly think that if we were 47-0 right now, someone would be whining about some insignificant problem with the team. YES Boris' numbers are down from last year, but we have won 15 and 17 games in a row this year, not many teams can say that in the history of the NBA. On top of that, we are competing in the most competitive conference that there has been in a long long time in this league , and to be at the top is just amazing. I wonder, if we were to win the title, which I believe is very highly probable, would that shut most of you up? Or would you complain that the trophy isn't big enough or something ridiculous like that?

Find another board then, maybe? Who cares if we're simply pointing out that Boris is under performing this year?

 

[The Commish]

Find another board then, maybe? Who cares if we're simply pointing out that Boris is under performing this year?

It was expected though with Amare coming back. Most of us predicted it. I'm not going to complain about Boris because we have so many weapons on this team that it's hard to stand out at times, but I wish he would improve his defensive rebounding. He doesn't seem committed to boxing out which given his size and position is bothersome.

 

[Skkorpion]

Hey PHX 32, a message board is meant to be a place where people can complain and argue. I agree it can sometimes get too negative, but that's mainly on the Cards board, not here.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hey PHX 32, a message board is meant to be a place where people can complain and argue. I agree it can sometimes get too negative, but that's mainly on the Cards board, not here.

Not only that but some people think that when you criticize the Suns that your being negative. Every team no matter how good you are has things they could improve on.

PS. I agree this board is not anywhere close to the negativity found on the Cards boards.