Bosh VS. Amare

[Yuma]

OK, hypothetical situation. Both Amare and Bosch could be free agents next season. In an ideal scenario, you as a GM have the choice of either one. Who do you take?

 

[cly2tw]

OK, hypothetical situation. Both Amare and Bosch could be free agents next season. In an ideal scenario, you as a GM have the choice of either one. Who do you take?

If you watched this game, Amare over Bosch hands down, if injury was no concern. It's not just because Amare scored more points, but the way he did it, not settling for jumpers. On defense, they are about the same.

 

[LV-Suns]

I thought Amare out played Bosh tonight. He was more efficient on offense, 5 points more in 4 less shots. Bosh rebounded better though; but the Suns out-rebounded them 46-39. Both are terrible defenders, Bosh is a better man to man defender, Amare is a better help defender.

I would honestly rather have Amare signed next year. I think Amare moves without the ball better than any bigs in the league freeing himself up while Bosh is a strict isolation scorer. If we plan to continue with the current system, Amare is a better fit.

Amare also averages 25/10/2 on 52% shooting in the playoffs compared to Bosh's 20/9 on 43% shooting.

 

[elindholm]

Bosh won the first half, Stoudemire won the second. If Stoudemire can keep up this level of play all season, he'd be the choice. His defense has improved from "embarrassing" to "almost passable," he has become more of a playmaker on offense, and his attitude is much better. I don't think he has drawn a single technical foul this year.

 

[dodie53]

Bosh for me.
less injury prone

 

[cly2tw]

Bosh won the first half, Stoudemire won the second. If Stoudemire can keep up this level of play all season, he'd be the choice. His defense has improved from "embarrassing" to "almost passable," he has become more of a playmaker on offense, and his attitude is much better. I don't think he has drawn a single technical foul this year.

Ya, at least in this game, all successful plays in the closing minutes went through Amare. A couple of times, Amare picked Calderon at low post, with Nash on Bargani. Nash's one-on-one all failed. They didn't try hard enough to feed it to Amare via another player. I think in TO they instructed to have it go through Amare after that. With Amare attracting all the attentions, we did just enough to escape with a one-point win.

Amare's offensive positioning off the ball is the best among bigmen. He no longer commit those stupid turnovers by forcing his way in the paint. With the soft drop shot and hook shots, his body control has improved a lot, despite loss of absolute athletism, or maybe because of that. As a consequence, his defensive footwork has improved too. His roaming radio when defending p&r has reduced some, which makes him look less bad as earlier. Very positive signs on the right track.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ya, at least in this game, all successful plays in the closing minutes went through Amare. A couple of times, Amare picked Calderon at low post, with Nash on Bargani. Nash's one-on-one all failed. They didn't try hard enough to feed it to Amare via another player. I think in TO they instructed to have it go through Amare after that. With Amare attracting all the attentions, we did just enough to escape with a one-point win.

Amare's offensive positioning off the ball is the best among bigmen. He no longer commit those stupid turnovers by forcing his way in the paint. With the soft drop shot and hook shots, his body control has improved a lot, despite loss of absolute athletism, or maybe because of that. As a consequence, his defensive footwork has improved too. His roaming radio when defending p&r has reduced some, which makes him look less bad as earlier. Very positive signs on the right track.

Indeed Amare has become a more cerebral player in regard to his whole approach to the game. Amare scoring 30 points and grabbing 8 rebounds is very impressive. My thought regarding Bosh was that he represents some of the athleticism that Amare is presently missing from his game. I hope Amare regains some of that incredible elevation when he first entered the league.

 

[HooverDam]

Amare for sure. Bosh is all finesse, Amare's got finesse and power (though less than what he once had).

 

[atikiN]

I'd go with whoever's cheaper

 

[SirStefan32]

I'd go with whoever's cheaper

Exactly. Bosh for $15 mil is better than Amare for $20 mil, and Amare for $15 mil is better than Bosh at $20 mil.
If either was available for $15 mil, I'd take Amare, if both were available for $20 mil, I'd take neither.

 

[cly2tw]

Exactly. Bosh for $15 mil is better than Amare for $20 mil, and Amare for $15 mil is better than Bosh at $20 mil.
If either was available for $15 mil, I'd take Amare, if both were available for $20 mil, I'd take neither.

Okafor at 13mil and Barbosa at 7mil would do better job, is that what you were saying?

 

[High Stakes]

its spelled bosh...and whoever asked this question is an idiot...why would all the hype be around pairing bosh with either dwade or lbj....stick to posting on the cardinals board rookie

 

[dreamcastrocks]

its spelled bosh...and whoever asked this question is an idiot...why would all the hype be around pairing bosh with either dwade or lbj....stick to posting on the cardinals board rookie

last warning. Debate the topic, not the poster. Next time, this will result in a banning.

 

[Superbone]

Bosch is his nickname since he's such a spark plug.

 

[Griffin]

Since this thread was created after the first game where Amare clearly won the match-up, how about after today's game?

Stoudemire: 18 points, 7 rebounds in 35 minutes
Bosh: 30 points, 17 rebounds in 38 minutes

I guess it says something about not making such judgments based on one or two games. I think Bosh would fit in very well with this team, but so does Amare when he plays up to his potential and makes effort on defense and boards. The question is, is that something we can expect on consistent basis going forward?

 

[SirStefan32]

Since this thread was created after the first game where Amare clearly won the match-up, how about after today's game?

Stoudemire: 18 points, 7 rebounds in 35 minutes
Bosh: 30 points, 17 rebounds in 38 minutes

I guess it says something about not making such judgments based on one or two games. I think Bosh would fit in very well with this team, but so does Amare when he plays up to his potential and makes effort on defense and boards. The question is, is that something we can expect on consistent basis going forward?

Eh, to be fair, Amare needed 10 shots to get his 18 points, and Bosh needed 26 to get his 30. Amare's team won by almost 20 points too.

Both of them are excellent players, but neither is a true franchise player.

 

[Chaplin]

Since this thread was created after the first game where Amare clearly won the match-up, how about after today's game?

Stoudemire: 18 points, 7 rebounds in 35 minutes
Bosh: 30 points, 17 rebounds in 38 minutes

I guess it says something about not making such judgments based on one or two games. I think Bosh would fit in very well with this team, but so does Amare when he plays up to his potential and makes effort on defense and boards. The question is, is that something we can expect on consistent basis going forward?

I like Bosh, but he's kind of a wimp. Hard to proclaim a player soft after pulling down 17 rebounds, but he was flopping all over the place on the court. He can also be a little over-aggressive, it's amazing that the Raptors didn't get nearly as many fouls as they committed.

 

[cly2tw]

Since this thread was created after the first game where Amare clearly won the match-up, how about after today's game?

Stoudemire: 18 points, 7 rebounds in 35 minutes
Bosh: 30 points, 17 rebounds in 38 minutes

I guess it says something about not making such judgments based on one or two games. I think Bosh would fit in very well with this team, but so does Amare when he plays up to his potential and makes effort on defense and boards. The question is, is that something we can expect on consistent basis going forward?

Raps relied on Bosh to score everytime on offense. On the other hand, we would have won this game even without Amare, as it's no challenge to us at all. Amare's value on offense will be seen against the big boys. As to rebounding, Amare is readjusting himself to his new body. At times, it seems easier for him to get an offensive rebound than a defensive one, as he doesn't need to worry about boxing out at the former. In general, his jump timing and hands are way off for rebounds, getting it ripped off by Hill and JRich in front of him frequently. It will take some time.

 

[Chaplin]

Raps relied on Bosh to score everytime on offense. On the other hand, we would have won this game even without Amare, as it's no challenge to us at all. Amare's value on offense will be seen against the big boys. As to rebounding, Amare is readjusting himself to his new body. At times, it seems easier for him to get an offensive rebound than a defensive one, as he doesn't need to worry about boxing out at the former. In general, his jump timing and hands are way off for rebounds, getting it ripped off by Hill and JRich in front of him frequently. It will take some time.

Part of that is part of the plan. Instead of grabbing the rebound for himself, he will consistently try to box out his man, leaving the rebound for a Jason Richardson and Grant Hill. Channing does the same thing. That's why Grant and JRich's rebounding numbers have been good. He should still get more rebounds, of course, but I think the high numbers for the wing players are directly related to how Amare and Channing work the low blocks.

You look at a team like the Raptors and the Magic, and they have one massive body to get rebounds, but their wing guys don't always crash the boards like ours do, so those teams are reliant on Howard and Bosh to rebound down low. It's amazing when you think of it, why can't big guys like Rashard Lewis or Bargnani and Turkoglu get bigger rebounding numbers? Because they don't try to get any. So Bosh and Howard have no choice, they HAVE to rebound.

 

[cly2tw]

Part of that is part of the plan. Instead of grabbing the rebound for himself, he will consistently try to box out his man, leaving the rebound for a Jason Richardson and Grant Hill. Channing does the same thing. That's why Grant and JRich's rebounding numbers have been good. He should still get more rebounds, of course, but I think the high numbers for the wing players are directly related to how Amare and Channing work the low blocks.

You look at a team like the Raptors and the Magic, and they have one massive body to get rebounds, but their wing guys don't always crash the boards like ours do, so those teams are reliant on Howard and Bosh to rebound down low. It's amazing when you think of it, why can't big guys like Rashard Lewis or Bargnani and Turkoglu get bigger rebounding numbers? Because they don't try to get any. So Bosh and Howard have no choice, they HAVE to rebound.

I agree with most of your post, but could offer an alternative explanation to your very last conclusion. Our bigs are not good enough to secure the rebounds all by themselves as the likes of Howard, Garnett, TD, even Bosh do. Barni and Turklo would not have as much incentive to crash the board anyway as Bosh is already collecting them all. It's just the other side of the same coin. For us, our current system of gang rebounding has worked well enough so far. I can't complain, even if my boy Amare would lose a lof of money on his next contract this way. Hey, if he is willing to buy into this team concept, I don't understand why many still keep complaining.

 

[slinslin]

I must admit Bosh outplayed him last night but I am still no fan.

Bosh played only 2 quarters. He did absolutely nothing in the 1st and 4th quarter when it mattered the most he had 2 points and 0 rebounds in the first quarter and 2 points and a couple of boards in the 4th.

He did all his damage in the 2nd quarter pretty much and some scoring in the 3rd.

I am also getting annoyed at these rebounding games by Amare. He is a much better rebounder than that. He showed that before in his career when he had 20 rebound games every now and then, now he has 10 every now and then and that shouldn't be.

 

[elindholm]

I am also getting annoyed at these rebounding games by Amare. He is a much better rebounder than that. He showed that before in his career when he had 20 rebound games every now and then, now he has 10 every now and then and that shouldn't be.

I think Stoudemire's lost athleticism shows up most in his rebounding. There was some play yesterday, I think in the third quarter, where there was a loose ball with several players trying to track it down. Stoudemire was clearly the least able to respond to the ball's caroms. He stood there like an old man while all of the other players whizzed around him. Part of the reason Hill and Richardson always beat him to rebounds is that he just can't jump quickly. Once he builds up a head of steam, he can still get reasonably high, but the "quick trigger" jump is gone.

Blocking out his man so that a teammate can get the ball is probably the most we can expect from Stoudemire now. He's never among the quicker players to react, to anything, and that's because his body can't do it anymore.

 

[BC867]

Blocking out his man so that a teammate can get the ball is probably the most we can expect from Stoudemire now. He's never among the quicker players to react, to anything, and that's because his body can't do it anymore.

How ironic that Amare is acting like the 37 year old and Grant like the 27 year old, rather than vice versa.

Here is how Grant does it.
http://granthill.com/hilltop/hillto...d-the-fountain-of-youth-with-the-phoenix-suns

 

[cly2tw]

I think Stoudemire's lost athleticism shows up most in his rebounding. There was some play yesterday, I think in the third quarter, where there was a loose ball with several players trying to track it down. Stoudemire was clearly the least able to respond to the ball's caroms. He stood there like an old man while all of the other players whizzed around him. Part of the reason Hill and Richardson always beat him to rebounds is that he just can't jump quickly. Once he builds up a head of steam, he can still get reasonably high, but the "quick trigger" jump is gone.

Blocking out his man so that a teammate can get the ball is probably the most we can expect from Stoudemire now. He's never among the quicker players to react, to anything, and that's because his body can't do it anymore.

All signs that he is getting into a Karl Malone mode. While Malone had been Malone his entire career, Amare now has to learn how to play in Malone's body. So far, he is very good on offense. But even Malone had just been an average defender up until his mid 30s.

People will be disappointed if they expect the old Amare to come back, because it's not gonna happen, which not be such a bad thing after all.

 

[elindholm]

I find it a little odd that every time someone points to a downgrade in Stoudemire's game, you explain that it's because he's becoming more like Malone.