Bryant Still Draws Interest, Even With Trial Looming

scotsman13

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Bryant Still Draws Interest, Even With Trial Looming
By CHRIS BROUSSARD

Published: June 30, 2004

An off-season already rife with suspense will reach another level tomorrow, when N.B.A. teams will be allowed to begin contacting free agents. Although players like Kenyon Martin, Rasheed Wallace and Steve Nash will be available, by far the most intriguing and unusual scenario will be the one that unfolds around Kobe Bryant.

Bryant, the Lakers' all-star guard, has opted out of his contract and is excited about testing the free-agent market for the first time. The Lakers can offer Bryant the most lucrative contract and even appear willing to trade Shaquille O'Neal to appease him, but Bryant has made no commitment to them.

The Phoenix Suns will attempt to woo Bryant, and Atlanta, Denver and San Antonio may also try. Bryant might even join the Lakers' forlorn next-door neighbors, the Los Angeles Clippers.

But any team that pursues Bryant also has to confront uncertainty. He will go on trial Aug. 27 in Eagle, Colo., on charges of felony sexual assault, which carries a potential sentence of four years to life in prison.

Bryant's suitors appear to be undeterred, eager to pursue him - and in the Lakers' case, to deconstruct a dynasty - in order to land a player who might not be available for several years, or perhaps ever.

"He's universally looked at as one of best players in the league," Rod Thorn, president of the Nets, said. "Other than this instance, he's never had any scandal attached to him at all in the course of his life. This is certainly a sad thing, but he's a terrific player that kid."

The Lakers appear ready to put their franchise in the hands of Bryant, who, at 25, is an eight-year veteran. The team has already offered him a seven-year deal worth about $130 million, depending on where the league sets next season's salary cap.

The team has its reasons for hoping Bryant will be able to play next season. Last July, shortly after he was charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old woman, the Lakers hired a criminal lawyer in Colorado to advise them on the pretrial proceedings. Almost from the beginning, the lawyer has been indicating that Bryant has a good chance of being acquitted, according to an agent who has been dealing with the team.

"The lawyer has been optimistic from the start that this case was not going to end in a conviction, and everybody in the organization has moved in that direction," the agent said. "Early on, he was telling the Lakers there were problems with the case."

Although teams may approach Bryant with the expectation that he is likely to be acquitted, they, of course, cannot be certain of the outcome of a trial. And no one knows what the ramifications would be if he were convicted.

Would Bryant's contract be terminated, or would he be suspended without pay and remain bound to a club upon his release? How would a conviction affect a club's payroll in relation to the salary cap?

Even the National Basketball Association's lawyers, who were not made available for comment, are unsure. According to officials from the league and the players union, the N.B.A. plans to handle the situation as it unfolds, because it has no precedent for dealing with such an incident.

Every N.B.A. contract includes a morals clause, which gives teams the right to terminate a player's contract under certain circumstances.

One of the provisions states that a team may terminate a contract if a player "at any time fails, refuses or neglects to conform his personal conduct to standards of good citizenship, good moral character (defined here to mean not engaging in acts of moral turpitude, whether or not such acts would constitute a crime), and good sportsmanship, to keep himself in first-class physical condition, or to obey the team's training rules."

In Bryant's case, a team will know before signing him that he may have violated the morals clause. "In this case, you know this going in," Thorn said. "This is not a case where a team signs a guy and then he does something. Everybody knows what's going on with him before they sign him. It's kind of like when we signed Alonzo Mourning. Everybody knew he had a kidney condition. And when that condition sidelined him, after the fact, it was like, 'That's your tough luck.' "

The N.B.A. will not allow a team to promise Bryant that he will be paid even if he is sent to prison; that type of promise could give a team a competitive advantage over other clubs seeking to sign Bryant.

"We would not approve a contract that said, 'Even if you're convicted of this crime, we will pay you,' " Brian McIntyre, a league spokesman, said.

After Latrell Sprewell choked P. J. Carlesimo, his coach with the Golden State Warriors, in December 1997, he was eventually suspended without pay for the rest of the season. When he returned the next season, after being traded to the Knicks, his contract was restored.

That pattern might be followed if Bryant is convicted. If he were sentenced to four years in prison, he might be suspended without pay for those four years; then, after his release, he might join the team he signed with for the final two or three years of the contract.

"That would make some sense, because even as much as Jerry Buss loves Kobe, I can't imagine him paying someone that much money and not getting his services," said the agent who recently dealt with the Lakers, referring to the team's owner.

Still, neither the N.B.A. nor the players association could say with certainty how things would play out if Bryant were convicted. How would his salary affect his team's payroll while he was unable to play? If his salary were to remain on the club's salary-cap figure, the team would probably prefer to terminate his contract.

"This is all new territory that's never been crossed before," a players association official said.

Clubs might be gambling in chasing Bryant, offering him a six-year contract worth as much as $90 million. The risks would multiply if a team were to acquire him by giving up a top player or two in a sign-and-trade deal.

The Lakers might also be gambling. A friend of Phil Jackson's said that Jackson believed Bryant was primarily responsible for his recent send-off as the Lakers' coach. O'Neal, who often said during last season that he did not want to play for anyone but Jackson, was already upset over the Lakers' refusal to grant him a two-year, $60 million contract extension. O'Neal grew angry when he saw Bryant wielding more control within the organization, and last week he demanded a trade.

Losing O'Neal, considered by many the greatest center of his generation, would be a stiff price for the Lakers to pay to satisfy Bryant, especially if he ends up in prison.


you have to ask if he is worth the cost of bring him in?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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scotsman13 said:
you have to ask if he is worth the cost of bring him in?


you can ask that 'til you're blue in the face and my response will ALWAYS be a resounding YES!
 
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scotsman13

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so ouchie we bring kobe in give him a max contact. late in sept a conviction comes in and we find out we cant get out of his contact. for the next 6 years we we have to deal with the fact that we are not only paying a rapeist, but one we will never get to see play for our team.

if you feel that suns can take this risk then maybe you should go get jason williams a max contract to come play center for us. he is on his way to prison to.
 

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The way I see it its a win-win for the Suns if they sign Kobe.

If he's acquited they are instant contenders. Season ticket sales will go through the roof and they're basically set for years.

If they sign him and he's found guilty they can spin it til Tuesday saying they are surprised, they really felt he was innocent, blah, blah, blah and they sit on the cap space for a year, put tons in the bank( bottom line seems to really motivate this team), make some opportunistic Utah type trades and start over again next summer with a new plan.
 

elindholm

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late in sept a conviction comes in and we find out we cant get out of his contact.

Have you read any of the posts on this topic?
 

Chaplin

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elindholm said:
late in sept a conviction comes in and we find out we cant get out of his contact.

Have you read any of the posts on this topic?

Of course not--he is adamantly against signing Kobe, because he doesn't want to "disturb our core". :confused:
 

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scotsman13 said:
so ouchie we bring kobe in give him a max contact. late in sept a conviction comes in and we find out we cant get out of his contact. for the next 6 years we we have to deal with the fact that we are not only paying a rapeist, but one we will never get to see play for our team.

if you feel that suns can take this risk then maybe you should go get jason williams a max contract to come play center for us. he is on his way to prison to.

Ugh! Do we have to repeat this again?

There are stipulations in the CBA that if a player is convicted of a felony, his contract becomes null and void. Meaning he will not get paid and the only bad thing that could occur to the Suns is a bad PR hit
 

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Evil Ash said:
Ugh! Do we have to repeat this again?

There are stipulations in the CBA that if a player is convicted of a felony, his contract becomes null and void. Meaning he will not get paid and the only bad thing that could occur to the Suns is a bad PR hit

That's seems to be true, but there was some indication that while the Suns wouldn't have to pay him, his salary would count against the cap for two years following his contract being voided.

Its supposed to be similar to the situation that occured in Charlotte where the forward (can't remember his name) was killed in a car accident. He still counted against Charlotte's cap number though deceased.

I don't know for sure if this is the situation, but no one has answered it clearly yet. It is really a stupid rule if it actually exists.
 

KingLouieLouie

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The only setback in signing Kobe (and if he's convicted) is that the Suns could be essentially placing all eggs in one basket w/Kobe, and being too late in acquiring anyone else to provide an immediate upgrade.

Although, it's obviously a risk worth taking and I'm not too impressed with the remaining crop of FAs.....I'm certain though that the Suns brass have several contengencies in place......
 
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elindholm

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Right, the Suns would be reduced to trying to use their "recycled" cap space to make a favorable trade later in the season. Not enough of a deterrent, in my opinion.
 

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We can just carry our capspace into the season and acquire pieces to build with via trade.
And the odds of Kobe being convicted are looking very small right now anyway.

Definately worth the shot at getting a player who will almost definately be considered one of the all-time greatest.
 

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JCSunsfan said:
That's seems to be true, but there was some indication that while the Suns wouldn't have to pay him, his salary would count against the cap for two years following his contract being voided.

Its supposed to be similar to the situation that occured in Charlotte where the forward (can't remember his name) was killed in a car accident. He still counted against Charlotte's cap number though deceased.

I don't know for sure if this is the situation, but no one has answered it clearly yet. It is really a stupid rule if it actually exists.

Actually the stipulation for being convicted of a felony is written directly into the CBA. I forget the exact name of the stipulation but it states that if a player is convicted of a felony their contract becomes null. No salary cap hit, no money paid, etc.

Sadly the clause for a player's death was never written into the CBA so they used the "career ending injury clause" (or whatever its called) as the guideline for that case. If he couldn't play in a certain number of games for 2 years, then his contract would be picked up by the insurance companies. So they still had to take a cap hit for 2 years because of them using this as a guideline (which was an incredibly stupid thing to do IMO).
 

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Evil Ash said:
Actually the stipulation for being convicted of a felony is written directly into the CBA. I forget the exact name of the stipulation but it states that if a player is convicted of a felony their contract becomes null. No salary cap hit, no money paid, etc.

Sadly the clause for a player's death was never written into the CBA so they used the "career ending injury clause" (or whatever its called) as the guideline for that case. If he couldn't play in a certain number of games for 2 years, then his contract would be picked up by the insurance companies. So they still had to take a cap hit for 2 years because of them using this as a guideline (which was an incredibly stupid thing to do IMO).

I just did a quick scan through the current CBA, and I can't find such a stipulation. Under Article VI, Section 4 (player conduct, unlawful violence) it says the following.

When a player is convicted of (including a plea of guilty, no contest, or nolo contendere to) a violent felony, he shall immediately be suspended by the NBA for a minimum of ten (10) games.

http://www.nbpa.com/cba/cba.html

Joe Mama
 

elindholm

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Joe Mama, the first post in this thread explains (in general terms) the morals clause that goes into "every NBA contract." It's not part of the CBA.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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scotsman13 said:
so ouchie we bring kobe in give him a max contact. late in sept a conviction comes in and we find out we cant get out of his contact. for the next 6 years we we have to deal with the fact that we are not only paying a rapeist, but one we will never get to see play for our team.

if you feel that suns can take this risk then maybe you should go get jason williams a max contract to come play center for us. he is on his way to prison to.


first of all, the author of that piece has no idea, legally, what he speaks of. if the contract has a morals clause and kobe's conviction is considered a violation of said clause, it remains enforceable, regardless of the suns' prior knowledge of his alleged actions. and i stress the word "alleged" b/c at the point of signing the contract that is all that exists, allegations. the fact that they are allegations goes towards the suns' collective knowledge in regards to any morales violations. this is all simple contract law. the nba attorneys refuse to speculate on what may or may not happen b/c that is all they would be doing, speculating, and it is not in the league's best interest to hypothesize on this. if a team were to inquire officially with the league's attorneys i am sure they would be given a certified legal opinion upon which they could rely in any hearing with the player's union.

additionally, the rod thorn's comparison to the mourning signing is pure ludicrosity (made up word - and no burtle-flickel from any of you!). signing a player with injury concerns is not the same as signing a player who may or may not violate a clause in a contract. if the nba's cba allowed for a clause that nullifies contracts based on injury and the nets' contract w/ zo had such a provision it would be a good comparison. as it is, these facts do not exist. rod thorn is just stirring up the pot. they made a bad signing w/ zo and are paying the price. signing kobe would not come with the same attendant risks.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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JCSunsfan said:
That's seems to be true, but there was some indication that while the Suns wouldn't have to pay him, his salary would count against the cap for two years following his contract being voided.

Its supposed to be similar to the situation that occured in Charlotte where the forward (can't remember his name) was killed in a car accident. He still counted against Charlotte's cap number though deceased.

I don't know for sure if this is the situation, but no one has answered it clearly yet. It is really a stupid rule if it actually exists.


hmm, slightly different scenarios. if the kobe contract is actually VOIDED (and this is a legal term of art) it is as if the contract never existed. that said, the suns would be considered to have never signed kobe, which logically proceeds to the conclusion that our cap room would not be impacted by the "non-signing."

and i'm sorry, but jason williams was retired, had bad knees, and wasn't really as funny as everyone said he was. i wouldn't give him a max.
 

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http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#56

56. How do players who die while under contract (Reggie Lewis, Drazen Petrovic, Nick Vanos, Bobby Phills) count against the cap?
A player who dies or who suffers a career-ending injury or illness, and whose contract is terminated, may be excluded from his team's team salary. If the death, injury, or illness occurs between July 1 and December 31, the salary can be excluded beginning on the second July 1 following the death, injury, or illness. If the termination occurs between January 1 and June 30, the salary can be excluded beginning two years after the death, injury, or illness. However, a team may decide not to terminate the contract and continue to pay the player. For example, the Lakers continued to pay Magic Johnson after he was forced to retire because of his HIV status, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary.

Teams do not receive an exception to acquire a replacement player if a player's contract is terminated for medical reasons. However, a disabled player exception (see question number 17 ) may be granted by the league in the event of a player's death. For example, the league granted Charlotte a disabled player exception when Bobby Phills died, and Charotte used this exception to acquire Dale Ellis.
 

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So the question is, Does a contract terminated due to incarceration fit this same rule?

If so, and if Kobe goes to prison, then he would come off the cap July 1, 2006. Hardly a risk free signing.

Maybe it isn't the same thing though. Almost all professional contracts, sports or otherwise, have a morals clause that lets the employer out. The key is what the CBA does concerning the cap.

BTW, the "disabled player exception" is only for half of the salary of the disabled player.
 

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JCSunsfan said:
So the question is, Does a contract terminated due to incarceration fit this same rule?

If so, and if Kobe goes to prison, then he would come off the cap July 1, 2006. Hardly a risk free signing.

Maybe it isn't the same thing though. Almost all professional contracts, sports or otherwise, have a morals clause that lets the employer out. The key is what the CBA does concerning the cap.

BTW, the "disabled player exception" is only for half of the salary of the disabled player.

What are we talking about here? Don't sign Kobe, because it's a risk if he goes to jail. Well, it's a risk for every other team out there, including the Lakers, but are THEY going to balk at offering him a huge contract? Absolutely not!

And I hope nobody thinks that we are the only team that is concerned with the money issue...
 

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Chaplin said:
What are we talking about here? Don't sign Kobe, because it's a risk if he goes to jail. Well, it's a risk for every other team out there, including the Lakers, but are THEY going to balk at offering him a huge contract? Absolutely not!

And I hope nobody thinks that we are the only team that is concerned with the money issue...

No, its just good to know all the risks.

I hope EA is right in his assessment. I imagine we'll get an explanation of this fairly soon, now that teams can talk about free agents.

Do you think there is a team out there that would say, "We believe you are innocent so passionately that even if you go to jail, we will honor your contract." It would be some sales pitch.
 

elindholm

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Um, I'm not trying to be rude, but did you guys read the first post in this thread? It answers most of the questions that you're continuing to debate.
 

Chaplin

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elindholm said:
Um, I'm not trying to be rude, but did you guys read the first post in this thread? It answers most of the questions that you're continuing to debate.

What I was pointing out was all the hesitation by some Suns fans to sign Kobe due to his legal troubles are the same as many fans of all the teams that Bryant might go to. That's all. We don't have a monopoly on being scared of what that would mean for our salary figure.
 

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slinslin said:
We can just carry our capspace into the season and acquire pieces to build with via trade.
And the odds of Kobe being convicted are looking very small right now anyway.

Definately worth the shot at getting a player who will almost definately be considered one of the all-time greatest.

If the Suns sign Kobe and he goes to jail they could take some huge expiring contract off some teams hands for a lotto pick, just like the Googs trade or they could trade for a couple of good role players that are good but don't fit with their current teams.

Its defenitely not the worst thing that could happen. Signing Kobe and losing him to the clink would not kill the teams rebuilding effort by any means, just delay it a year.

Meanwhile all our young talent gets a year better and the Suns are even more appealing next summer when they have the #5 and # 15 picks in the draft.
 

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elindholm said:
Um, I'm not trying to be rude, but did you guys read the first post in this thread? It answers most of the questions that you're continuing to debate.

Egg on my face. I missed that little paragraph about promising to pay him if found guilty.

According to this article, if Kobe is jailed, he is suspended and not paid. His team retains his rights and he might finish his contract if released. But the league is making no indication that there would be salary cap relief in such a case, because the team knows the risk of jail at the contract signing.

In this case, I would not be interested in signing Kobe unless I have legal people saying there is NO WAY he would be convicted.
 

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elindholm said:
Joe Mama, the first post in this thread explains (in general terms) the morals clause that goes into "every NBA contract." It's not part of the CBA.

thanks, but I was responding to the following from Evil Ash.

Evil Ash said:
Actually the stipulation for being convicted of a felony is written directly into the CBA. I forget the exact name of the stipulation but it states that if a player is convicted of a felony their contract becomes null. No salary cap hit, no money paid, etc.

so, according to the article there is really no clearcut answer as to what will happen to a team's salary cap if they sign Kobe Bryant and he is convicted and sent to prison. Is that right?

Joe Mama
 

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