Bucks @ Suns Saturday Finals game thread 7-17-2021 Game - Game 5

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chris Paul in in shootaround.

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Lol. Okay. Weird video to post.

 

[Covert Rain]

Can't believe I need to say this yet again to you... are you on a bender these days dude? Damn...
I didn't say the shoulder "didn't effect him." Put your specs on and read this: "The shoulder injury did limit Paul's minutes..." and, "it clearly didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time."

I need to demand that, if you are going to continue to quote me, then quote me. Stop with putting words into my posts that I never said and never even suggested...
Thanks...

Yes but you did move the goal post by start talking about his minutes which wasn't the point. You can run anybody out there hurt to burn up minutes. He was put out there hurt multiple times. It did impact his performance multiple times. It hurt his team multiple times. The Suns have made it clear they are going to let him play hurt or not. So, to assume it's simply on Paul is a bit misleading. Monty has not necessarily made the best decisions for team or Paul's heath. He has copped to Paul's wishes instead. All I am saying is if he is not healthy it's not as simple as him willing himself to play well. He may not be able to. I am not saying that is the case. He might be just fine playing in the next game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Can't believe I need to say this yet again to you... are you on a bender these days dude? Damn...
I didn't say the shoulder "didn't effect him." Put your specs on and read this: "The shoulder injury did limit Paul's minutes..." and, "it clearly didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time."

I need to demand that, if you are going to continue to quote me, then quote me. Stop with putting words into my posts that I never said and never even suggested...
Thanks...

my god man...

“While the shoulder issue was painful, it clearly didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time.”

that’s the line of laughable lies I was responding to. Those are LITERALLY your words. And then I showed why that was a bald faced lie by providing Paul’s awful shooting and acting as decoy, and Monty had to limit his minutes. And now you’re saying you never said his shoulder wasn’t an issue? You don’t even have command of your own opinion, much less the facts. I mean to say the shoulder jury didn’t effect him for a long period of time when it absolutely effected negatively him for the entire Lakers series is again, a pathological inability to admit you’re wrong. I mean... your theories are really out there comments for starters. But then back tracking on those comments as if they never even existed is a Trumpian level of denial and flat out lying.

Here’s the bottom line... stop saying ridiculous things with no basis in fact, and I’ll stop pointing out with facts why the stuff you’re saying is so ridiculous. Cool?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The shoulder injury did limit Paul's minutes and even when he played when the shoulder issue was fresh, he wasn't a turnover machine. While the shoulder issue was painful, it clearly didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time. Which tells me he was able to find ways to play through it, while not killing the team.
Additionally, we're now in Game 5 of the finals...playing the Bucks, not the Lakers.

And no... I don't believe Monty is gonna stand in Paul's way. Which, goes back to my earlier comment. We are about to see what Paul is truly made of as, if he chooses to play (I honestly don't buy into the "injury" thing as being the root cause for him poor play), it's 100% on him to find a way to play well enough so that he isn't the cause and/or key contributor toward a loss.

Your first paragraph makes me believe that either (a) you didn’t watch the first three games of the lakers series; or (b) it might be time for a cognitive checkup for you bc your memory is clearly on the fritz.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes but you did move the goal post by start talking about his minutes which wasn't the point.

bingo.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just heard some stats. Craig had done a better job covering Middleton than Bridges at the end of the game. Middleton didn't score when matched up against Craig. Middleton's last 9 points he scored were when he was matched up against Bridges.

When Middleton scores 18 or more the Bucks are 12-2. When Middleton shoots below 40% the Buck have won ZERO times.

Yeah I’ve been saying this for a while, Bridges D has been subpar for the WCF and the finals.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Can't believe I need to say this yet again to you... are you on a bender these days dude? Damn...
I didn't say the shoulder "didn't effect him." Put your specs on and read this: "The shoulder injury did limit Paul's minutes..." and, "it clearly didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time."

I need to demand that, if you are going to continue to quote me, then quote me. Stop with putting words into my posts that I never said and never even suggested...
Thanks...

It clearly DID impact Paul for the three games that we’re talking about Ayton dominating offensively. Games 1-3.

 

[82CardsGrad]

It clearly DID impact Paul for the three games that we’re talking about Ayton dominating offensively. Games 1-3.

Yes...CP was impacted. But to what extent? And how much did that "impact" really have on Ayton and the team?
In game 1, CP had 8 assists and 1 turnover. In game 2, which is clearly THE game where the "impact" can be most visible, he had 5 assists and 3 turnovers. BUT, Cam Payne stepped up with 7 assists and 19 points!
In Game 3, CP had 9 assists and ZERO turnovers!
And, by game 4, that "impact" seemed to have all but diminished as CP goes for 9 assists, ZERO turnovers and 18 points.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Your first paragraph makes me believe that either (a) you didn’t watch the first three games of the lakers series; or (b) it might be time for a cognitive checkup for you bc your memory is clearly on the fritz.

You two need to take your act to the stage man... There is a present vacuum regarding solid comedians!

 

[82CardsGrad]

my god man...

“While the shoulder issue was painful, it clearly didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time.”

that’s the line of laughable lies I was responding to. Those are LITERALLY your words. And then I showed why that was a bald faced lie by providing Paul’s awful shooting and acting as decoy, and Monty had to limit his minutes. And now you’re saying you never said his shoulder wasn’t an issue? You don’t even have command of your own opinion, much less the facts. I mean to say the shoulder jury didn’t effect him for a long period of time when it absolutely effected negatively him for the entire Lakers series is again, a pathological inability to admit you’re wrong. I mean... your theories are really out there comments for starters. But then back tracking on those comments as if they never even existed is a Trumpian level of denial and flat out lying.

Here’s the bottom line... stop saying ridiculous things with no basis in fact, and I’ll stop pointing out with facts why the stuff you’re saying is so ridiculous. Cool?

Wait... so you define "painful" and "didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time," as "his shoulder wasn't an issue?"

OK... I see how you have a comprehension issue. Makes a ton of sense now.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yes but you did move the goal post by start talking about his minutes which wasn't the point. You can run anybody out there hurt to burn up minutes. He was put out there hurt multiple times. It did impact his performance multiple times. It hurt his team multiple times. The Suns have made it clear they are going to let him play hurt or not. So, to assume it's simply on Paul is a bit misleading. Monty has not necessarily made the best decisions for team or Paul's heath. He has copped to Paul's wishes instead. All I am saying is if he is not healthy it's not as simple as him willing himself to play well. He may not be able to. I am not saying that is the case. He might be just fine playing in the next game.

Yes... it did impact his performance. Mins? Between you and The Smothers Brothers, I honestly can't recall if or when I mentioned minutes...

Look, I'll say this one last time and then I'm down with you on this topic... If/when CP3 steps foot on the court, the "injury" is a non-issue to CP3... It has to be. It is squarely on him to play through the issue in a way that does not harm the teams' chances for a win. If we see another 5 turnovers, low assists and low points, CP3 will be hung by the media and the fans...and rightly so.
Chris Paul has been longing for this stage and this game for 16 years now. He will need to find a way... any way, to be a solution to a victory and not a key cog in a loss.
Heck, that might mean agreeing to defer some of the load... like, don't bring the ball up so that he isn't further hammered by Holiday.
But, when the ball is in his hands, he better not take out the picnic set and eat the damn ball... He played thru pain earlier in the post season. Take the shots... get numb and play through the pain again. Move the ball and the offense. Get his teammates in positions where they can be successful.
If he doesn't do this, I pity the guy for the lashing he will absorb...

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes...CP was impacted. But to what extend? And how much did that "impact" really have on Ayton and the team?
In game 1, CP had 8 assists and 1 turnover. In game 2, which is clearly THE game where the "impact" can be most visible, he had 5 assists and 3 turnovers. BUT, Cam Payne stepped up with 7 assists and 19 points!
In Game 3, CP had 9 assists and ZERO turnovers!
And, by game 4, that "impact" seemed to have all but diminished as CP goes for 9 assists, ZERO turnovers and 18 points.

Come on now. You're cherry picking a bit. First off, with any injury you an aggravate it. Especially, hand, wrist, leg areas. He also got some of his points on free throws because he was unable to to do anything else.

Paul Injury Game 1 Lakers
Following games goes 3 for 8, 2 for 5, 3 for 8, 7 for 15 (reaggravates injury),Goes 3 for 9, 4 for 12.

Paul Catches Covid (out for 2 games)
Game 3 shoots 5 for 19 (also suffers torn ligaments), Game 4 - 6 for 22, Game 5 - 8 for 19. Game 6 he appears to rebound

Bucks Game 1 he plays well, Game 2 his turnover problem starts with 6. Next game wearing band on wrists and finger sling has 4 more turnovers, Game 4 same thing (caught on camera clutching his wrist) another 5 turnovers. 15 turnovers in 3 games is the most he has had in 3 game playoff stretch since 2009.

I would say you can pinpoint his struggles to at least one aspect of his game with every injury so far in the playoffs unless you believe in wild coincidences.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes... it did impact his performance. Mins? Between you and The Smothers Brothers, I honestly can't recall if or when I mentioned minutes...

Look, I'll say this one last time and then I'm down with you on this topic... If/when CP3 steps foot on the court, the "injury" is a non-issue to CP3... It has to be. It is squarely on him to play through the issue in a way that does not harm the teams' chances for a win. If we see another 5 turnovers, low assists and low points, CP3 will be hung by the media and the fans...and rightly so.
Chris Paul has been longing for this stage and this game for 16 years now. He will need to find a way... any way, to be a solution to a victory and not a key cog in a loss.
Heck, that might mean agreeing to defer some of the load... like, don't bring the ball up so that he isn't further hammered by Holiday.
But, when the ball is in his hands, he better not take out the picnic set and eat the damn ball... He played thru pain earlier in the post season. Take the shots... get numb and play through the pain again. Move the ball and the offense. Get his teammates in positions where they can be successful.
If he doesn't do this, I pity the guy for the lashing he will absorb...

You did. I quote "The shoulder injury did limit Paul's minutes and even when he played when the shoulder issue was fresh, he wasn't a turnover machine."

Nobody was arguing he wasn't in there giving it a go. My initial response to you was that history doesn't support what you were saying about the Suns and training staff doing the right thing. They are going to let Chris do what he wants. They won't stand in his way if he says he can go. He was pulled eventually a couple times when it was obvious he couldn't hold on to the ball.

You also cherry picked a bit because just because one aspect of his game is working doesn't mean he wasn't impacted and fully functional. See the previous post. You can pinpoint some aspect of his game being off after every incident he has suffered this playoffs. Not only off his regular season pace, his historical playoff pace and even the games this playoffs where he appeared healthy.

 

[nashman]

I think we'll see what Chris Paul is "made of" by the end of tomorrow night.

I’d be thrilled with that as he has proven what he’s made of his entire career as one of the best pgs to EVER play the game!

 

[82CardsGrad]

You did. I quote "The shoulder injury did limit Paul's minutes and even when he played when the shoulder issue was fresh, he wasn't a turnover machine."

Nobody was arguing he wasn't in there giving it a go. My initial response to you was that history doesn't support what you were saying about the Suns and training staff doing the right thing. They are going to let Chris do what he wants.

He was pulled eventually a couple times when it was obvious he couldn't hold on to the ball. You also cherry picked a big because just because one aspect of his game is working doesn't mean he wasn't impacted. See the previous post. You can pinpoint some aspect of his game being off not only his regular season pace, his historical playoff pace but even the games when he felt good.

No No.. I referenced his assists and low/no turnovers as an example of playing through the injury... Of not being a key cog in a loss.

Anyway.... I'm out on this one buddy. It's been fun.
Onto tomorrow night!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wait... so you define "painful" and "didn't impact Paul for an extended period of time," as "his shoulder wasn't an issue?"

OK... I see how you have a comprehension issue. Makes a ton of sense now.

Lol... multiple posters have called out the nonsense in your posts. Maybe, just maybe it’s a YOU issue, not mine.

now go ahead and throw up another big laugh emoji. It just makes you look even more out to lunch than your previous takes already did.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No No.. I referenced his assists and low/no turnovers as an example of playing through the injury... Of not being a key cog in a loss.

Anyway.... I'm out on this one buddy. It's been fun.
Onto tomorrow night!

this is becoming a pretty solid trend. You make an incredibly dubious claim. Others refute that claim with facts. You then clutch your pearls either ignoring the retort, distorting the retort or in the current case, distort your own initial point. Multiple posters then call you on it. You throw up a big laugh emoji, say something else totally ridiculous and then bail on the debate.

it’s pretty odd/comical.

 

[Covert Rain]

No No.. I referenced his assists and low/no turnovers as an example of playing through the injury... Of not being a key cog in a loss.

Anyway.... I'm out on this one buddy. It's been fun.
Onto tomorrow night!

You asked me when you brought up minutes. I just quoted you. Then you brought up him playing through injury. Again, nobody is saying he didn't try. Honestly, not sure what you are arguing there because I don't think anybody disputes those two things.

I think what people were trying to dispute is the idea that he has not been impacted time and time again immediately following something that has happened to him. Sure, some of his numbers might be OK but they clearly were not across the board.

My only point with you was that it's not as simple as him showing up on the court if he is hurt since he clearly hurt his team in many ways following the above incidents. I am not saying he won't be OK by next GAME. He could be 100%. I am only saying if he really is hurt? There is no telling what we get out of him no matter how badly he wants to play well and it doesn't appear the Suns are going to stand in his way if he wants to play based on history.

That's it. It's that simple of a point I was making.

 

[Covert Rain]

I admit this is pure conjecture on my part because it's hard to pinpoint if and when he reaggravated his wrist/finger. However, going through his playoff log? It appears Paul has only been near or at 100% in about 8 of the 20 playoff games so far give or take a game or two. So even if you go conservative, I think he has only been healthy 50-60% of the entire playoffs (including his Covid stint).

YIKES but that makes this run even more amazing if you ask me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes...CP was impacted. But to what extent? And how much did that "impact" really have on Ayton and the team?
In game 1, CP had 8 assists and 1 turnover. In game 2, which is clearly THE game where the "impact" can be most visible, he had 5 assists and 3 turnovers. BUT, Cam Payne stepped up with 7 assists and 19 points!
In Game 3, CP had 9 assists and ZERO turnovers!
And, by game 4, that "impact" seemed to have all but diminished as CP goes for 9 assists, ZERO turnovers and 18 points.

I am now convinced you didn’t watch those games and can only rely on stats for your argument. Not a single suns fan would say that Paul was impactful (other than negatively so) in those games.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I admit this is pure conjecture on my part because it's hard to pinpoint if and when he reaggravated his wrist/finger. However, going through his playoff log? It appears Paul has only been near or at 100% in about 8 of the 20 playoff games so far give or take a game or two. So even if you go conservative, I think he has only been healthy 50-60% of the entire playoffs (including his Covid stint).

YIKES but that makes this run even more amazing if you ask me.

I think when he dislocated(?) the finger that's when he really started struggling (post shoulder injury), I think it's more of a problem with his handle and passing then the ligament issue. For some reason I thought he got his finger stuck in another player's jersey early in game 3 but maybe that's when he re-injured it?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am now convinced you didn’t watch those games and can only rely on stats for your argument. Not a single suns fan would say that Paul was impactful (other than negatively so) in those games.

the only game Paul played well in the Lakers series was Game 4, when he finally looked a little more like himself. the beginning If the series was so bad that James Jones and Monty were prepared to bench him for Game 4 before he begged them to play.

i mean... trying to make the argument that he was impactful in a positive way in the first three games, yet Monty and JJ thought they needed to bench him is flat out insane. And I bet if you look back, 82 was probably calling for his benching the same way Monty, JJ and a lot of us did.

 

[Matt L]

We've got a lot of "nobody believes in us" mojo for this game.

The Ringer NBA podcasts have basically been a coronation for Giannis since game 2. They (and I believe the rest of the national media) are all in on the narrative that the Bucks took their lumps in prior playoffs and will finally get to the promised land because of the tough losses they endured. It is a nice narrative but the suns can change it beginning tomorrow!

I hope Monty is pushing all of buttons because we need everything for two more wins.

 

[JosiahLee]

We’ll I’m convinced we’re winning game 5 and I’m designating our theme song as “The middle” by Jimmy Eat World. This awesome band has already performed at halftime during game 2 of the finals. We won and reached the “middle” point only needing two more wins.

Fittingly enough, this band was formed in Mesa, Arizona in 1993 (ironically the year the Suns lost in the finals).

We’ll we’re in the middle of the ride right now with the series ******* at 2-2 and we’re all feeling nervous since we’ve lost the last two.

I find the lyrics very appropriate at this point in the series with the national media doubting the Suns:


Hey, don't write yourself off yet
It's only in your head, you feel left out
Or looked down on
Just try your best
Try everything you can
And don't you worry what they tell themselves
When you're away
It just takes some time
Phoenix Suns you're in the middle of the ride
Everything, everything will be just fine
Everything, everything will be all right, all right
Hey, you know they're all the same
You know you're doing better on your own (On your own)
So don't buy in
Live right now
Yeah, just be yourself
It doesn't matter if it's good enough (Good enough)
For someone else
It just takes some time
Phoenix Suns you're in the middle of the ride
Everything, everything will be just fine
Everything, everything will be all right, all right
It just takes some time
Phoenix Suns you're in the middle of the ride
Everything, everything will be just fine
Everything, everything will be all right, all right

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#RallyTheValley

 

[AZ Fan]

Suns must play tonight as if it’s game 7. ...play smart and Good Luck!!