Bucs interested in Shelton Trade

[Rats]

Shelton even at his salary would be a good RT. He asked to be allowed to seek a trade because he believes he is a LT. Big is our LT and Shelton just wants to be allowed to play there. Whats the harm in letting a quality lineman look for a better fit for his talent. If we do not get an acceptable package for him he will be here under contract for next season. He does not fit in our plans at LT if Wells can back up there. I think the Cards are doing the right thing by letting him find out what the market is for his services. If its a 2nd rd pick or a pick and a player then the Cards can decide if they want to part ways with him. Either way we still have to get some quality lineman that want to play here.

 

[ThunderCard]

especially at that contract. he has 4 more years of pay at below average wage for a good to great LT. More value for the dollar, but I don't think we should trade him. Hold out for a 1st or nothing at all. I have a feeling we will see Shelton be dominate on the right side for 4 more years,

 

[CardinalChris]

I would love that, but he wasn't dominant on the right side. I know, injuries, but I think he's gonna start sliding with injuries FAST. Now is his high water mark.

 

[Russ Smith]

but john you are missing the fact that this is SHELTON who is seeking a trade. There is no guarantee that the cards would even do it, or any indication that they really want to.

My question is this, are we a better team with Big at LT and LJ playing for someone else than we would be with LJ at LT and Big at LG?

I suspect not but I think the opinion of the OL varies widely on this board. There are people who are insisting Big is a top 5 LT already. I thought he played better than I expected but I saw something the other day (and if I can find the link again I'll post it) that says Big was charged with 7.5 sacks allowed this year and there were something like 15 LTs who allowed less sacks. big's strength is of course run blocking and I fully agree having him there improved our ability to run left, but I know LJ never allowed that many sacks in a season.

Anybody know a link for sacks allowed stats, I can't for the life of me find that link and I'd love to confirm that number as right or wrong.

 

[az jam]

Talk is cheap (particularly when it comes from an agent). When I see it, I'll believe it.

That said - are there any decent players TB wants to trade in lieu of a 2nd round or whatever pick?

The voice of reason!! Agree that no team will overpay for Shelton but its nice to think that we can at least get something in return. Perhaps a trade for either Travis Henry, Michael Bennett or Jon Kitna could be done in exchange for Shelton. That would fill one of our needs and still have money under the cap for free agency. It would also give us more flexibility in the draft.

 

[CardinalChris]

I realize he was out of position, but it felt like Shelton gave up that many THIS year...... it would be an interesting stat to see.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would love that, but he wasn't dominant on the right side. I know, injuries, but I think he's gonna start sliding with injuries FAST. Now is his high water mark.

That's where I agree, LJ has been beaten up for years now and I do agree with Chris that we can expect to see him miss more and more games as his career goes on as a result. In that respect trading him now makes some sense.

 

[Russ Smith]

I realize he was out of position, but it felt like Shelton gave up that many THIS year...... it would be an interesting stat to see.

I know Stats inc has it but I don't have the book. I thought I found it on snapstats but I can't seem to find it there. I got the link from somewhere. I think LJ was charged with 5 himself and obviously didn't play a full year.

Note, it's quite normal for a LT to lead his team in sacks allowed, they play against the best pass rushers, but what struck me was how many other LT's had less sacks allowed.

I'll see if I can find it I tend to discount most stats that aren't done by Stats INC because I know how they do their stats and don't know how others do theirs.

LJ is clearly a better LT than RT because he's played it so long but I would like to think he can improve at RT, I just don't think he wants to play for Dennis Green.

 

[seesred]

Russ at this point the feeling is mutual. LJ burned to many bridges last year. We don't know the in the locker room stuff right now it's ge said and he said, but LD if he is to remain a Cardinal must play LT. This makes LJ way over budget for a RT. Simple math.

GBR
40

 

[Syracusecards]

Talk is cheap (particularly when it comes from an agent). When I see it, I'll believe it.

That said - are there any decent players TB wants to trade in lieu of a 2nd round or whatever pick?

PFW has reported that they might want to get rid of Ronde Barber. He has refused to take a pay cut twice and is due to make $4 million the next two seasons. I wouldn't mind that trade.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ at this point the feeling is mutual. LJ burned to many bridges last year. We don't know the in the locker room stuff right now it's ge said and he said, but LD if he is to remain a Cardinal must play LT. This makes LJ way over budget for a RT. Simple math.

GBR
40

Agreed he's an expensive RT.

 

[Syracusecards]

We should see if they'll give us their 2nd rounder for next year instead of this year. The talent pool should be much better in next years draft and the Bucs are going to suck next year anyway.

 

[CardinalChris]

Except that high second round lands us two good players at the two positions we really need...RB & CB. Who knows what will be there next year. I think a high second is great considering the talent and needs we have at that point in the draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think we ought to offer him to Denver for Pryce. I doubt Denver would take it they appear to want the capspace, but I do know they need a LT and they want to move Pryce.

 

[Snakester]

Talk is cheap (particularly when it comes from an agent). When I see it, I'll believe it.

That said - are there any decent players TB wants to trade in lieu of a 2nd round or whatever pick?

Yea, they have this great defensive end named Simeon Rice.

 

[john h]

Shelton even at his salary would be a good RT. He asked to be allowed to seek a trade because he believes he is a LT. Big is our LT and Shelton just wants to be allowed to play there. Whats the harm in letting a quality lineman look for a better fit for his talent. If we do not get an acceptable package for him he will be here under contract for next season. He does not fit in our plans at LT if Wells can back up there. I think the Cards are doing the right thing by letting him find out what the market is for his services. If its a 2nd rd pick or a pick and a player then the Cards can decide if they want to part ways with him. Either way we still have to get some quality lineman that want to play here.

It seems to me DG has moved a lot of people to different positions on the line. Perhaps this works and perhaps it does not. In the case of Shelton some are indicating he does not want to be moved. All of the moving around of personnel have not produced any good results that I could see last year and we now have Shelton wanting out of Dodge. DG fires our OL coach 6 games into the season and you have to wonder if he was not questioning DG about some of his moves. DG may know what he is doing but in the long haul you cannot continually loose good starting linemen when you are hurting in that department already. We fire our starting center who was perhaps one of our better lineman, fire our OL coach, and now are losing a guy we just signed to a long term contract and at the same time shout "we need offensive linemen". Something is wrong with this scene. OL are hard to replace. It is a position that requires some experience. Not like a RB. So how do we replace these guys. With rookies like at center? I hope DG will settle down at some point and get some people into position and keep them there. You cannot forever be changing the lineman and develop an solid OL. Now we start looking for OL with not much to chose from. Sure looks to me like we are not going to be prime time contenders when we move in the new stadium.

 

[earthsci]

All of the moving around of personnel have not produced any good results that I could see last year and we now have Shelton wanting out of Dodge

Unlike the year before when our OL was feared throughout the NFL?

 

[Rats]

Sure looks to me like we are not going to be prime time contenders when we move in the new stadium.

I was going to say the same thing that earthsci said, that our OLINE was a disaster for how many years running? Dennis Green had to make changes there and still has to make changes. He could not fix all of the "Minor League Cardinals" problems in one off season. FA has to be used to fix the line this offseason. There still has to be some shuffling and added personel to make this line better. If we dump SHelton for a pick or player, find a replacement at RT and a RG. There are a few available. To say that DG should have not shuffled things and should have left the OLINE intact from the year before is ignoring the obvious. It was broken and has been broken for awhile. That is why we spent a #2 overall pick on Big to play LT and spent a ton of money on Pete Kendall (who never lived up to his salary and was always hurt). The line has to be fixed and when DG fixes it he will let it gel but until then things have to be looked at to improve it.

 

[BACH]

My question is this, are we a better team with Big at LT and LJ playing for someone else than we would be with LJ at LT and Big at LG?

Good question, but probably not that simple. Trading Shelton is more a question of salary cap management than talent on the OL IMO.

I suspect not but I think the opinion of the OL varies widely on this board. There are people who are insisting Big is a top 5 LT already. I thought he played better than I expected but I saw something the other day (and if I can find the link again I'll post it) that says Big was charged with 7.5 sacks allowed this year and there were something like 15 LTs who allowed less sacks. big's strength is of course run blocking and I fully agree having him there improved our ability to run left, but I know LJ never allowed that many sacks in a season.

I did that and I'm sticking with it. True, Big was VERY mediocre at LT in the first half of the season, but once he settled in, he was great. The 7.5 sack number is probably correct, but I'm also pretty sure that Big didn't surrender a sack in 5 or 6 games in a row in the 2nd half of the season (I pretty sure the announcers said it in one of the last games - maybe in the homegame against the Rams)

 

[Russ Smith]

Good question, but probably not that simple. Trading Shelton is more a question of salary cap management than talent on the OL IMO.


I did that and I'm sticking with it. True, Big was VERY mediocre at LT in the first half of the season, but once he settled in, he was great. The 7.5 sack number is probably correct, but I'm also pretty sure that Big didn't surrender a sack in 5 or 6 games in a row in the 2nd half of the season (I pretty sure the announcers said it in one of the last games - maybe in the homegame against the Rams)

just to be clear I'm unable to find that link so I can't verify that number so it's simply what I remember reading and I can't vouch for if it's true. When I first read it I thought it sounded high. Sack numbers are very subjective week after week we'd see debates on this very board about was that sack Big's fault or the RB or the TE or the QB holding the ball too long etc.

I would love if he is a top 5 LT we pay him as one and it would be great if we got that in return from his play.

 

[Redsz]

You also have to consider that this is proburbly the first time BIG has played LT in the NFL. There is going to be an adjustment period for such a move. Not to mention he had a bad knee which didn't help matters.

I thought BIG handled himself damn well at LT under the situation. If he continues to progress there will be no doubt in my mind that he will be a top LT in the NFL.

 

[Syracusecards]

You also have to consider that this is proburbly the first time BIG has played LT in the NFL. There is going to be an adjustment period for such a move. Not to mention he had a bad knee which didn't help matters.

I thought BIG handled himself damn well at LT under the situation. If he continues to progress there will be no doubt in my mind that he will be a top LT in the NFL.

I agree. After playing guard for the first years of his career, I thought he adjusted very well and played better than I expected.

 

[JeffGollin]

PFW has reported that they might want to get rid of Ronde Barber.
If we traded Shelton for Barber, it would fill a huge hole in our secondary and open up our options in the rest of free agency and the draft.

That said - When your offensive line isn't getting the job done, things need to be fixed. But so far no one seems to know what it will take to solve the problem (otherwise they would have fixed it by now). With that in mind, I must admit to being a bit leery of blithely calling for the exit of LJ and/or Clement. (Is it really them?)

In parting with LJ, Anthony (or both) always keep in mind the principle that you should be reluctant to part with a starter unless you have someone who can step in and replace him.

 

[spanky1]

PFW has reported that they might want to get rid of Ronde Barber.
If we traded Shelton for Barber, it would fill a huge hole in our secondary and open up our options in the rest of free agency and the draft.

That said - When your offensive line isn't getting the job done, things need to be fixed. But so far no one seems to know what it will take to solve the problem (otherwise they would have fixed it by now). With that in mind, I must admit to being a bit leery of blithely calling for the exit of LJ and/or Clement. (Is it really them?)

In parting with LJ, Anthony (or both) always keep in mind the principle that you should be reluctant to part with a starter unless you have someone who can step in and replace him.

Jeff,

Ronde Barber for Shelton....not in my books. He's getting old (a year older than Duane Starks and two years older than Shelton. He also is too expensive.

 

[kerouac9]

Isn't the real subject of the article that Shelton's agent anticipates that the Bucs would be interested in L.J.? There's nothing in there that says that the Bucs actually are interested. Quite the opposite, in fact. It says that 10 teams have contacted Sheton's agent, but that none of them have been the Bucs.