Burning Down the House

SweetD

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Burning Down the House
By Scott Church
for HOOPSWORLD.com
Mar 28, 2005, 12:45

So after watching last week’s games, I realized the Suns have made a couple of mistakes that will really hurt them. The first mistake was trading Zarko Cabarkapa. Zarko has started to show his talents on the Warriors. He is shooting well and is banging inside for rebounds and put backs. He is basically back to his old self, pre-broken wrist. Knowing that the Suns only received back two second round picks for him really hurts. Zarko is going to be a big time player over the course of his career and it upsets me that the Suns got rid of him so quickly. I know the team wanted to stay under the cap and give themselves more options for next year, but I still would have liked to of had him as insurance on the bench.

The other big mistake the Suns made was not keeping this past years draft pick. The Suns traded the pick to the Bulls for a future pick as well as a later pick in the draft that turned into Jackson Vroman, who is now in New Orleans. The Suns had to get rid of the pick in order to have enough money to sign Quinten Richardson. The Suns would have been just over a million dollars shorter on Q’s contract, making it so he probably wouldn’t have signed and that the Clippers would have a greater chance of matching his contract. So this is what I don’t get though. The Suns could have drafted Andre Iguodala with the 7th pick, giving the Suns the guy they really wanted. He would have become the immediate starter at either the SG or SF spot, depending on where JJ wanted to start. Iguodala is an amazing player that is doing mind-blowing things in Philadelphia. I can’t even imagine him on the Suns and what he would have brought. If the Suns could have drafted him and then still try to sign Q or get someone just under Q’s level, where would the Suns be right now? Could you imagine Iguodala as the Suns key bench player? This would have changed the way the bench and the trades that happened worked out.

The Suns traded the 7th pick expecting the Bulls to stay as one of the worst teams in the league. The Suns are now looking at around the 17th pick in the draft from the Bulls pick. The Suns pick will be sent to the Spurs to cover the Barbosa trade. So the Suns will have the 17th pick and a second round pick or two. I would rather have seen the Suns keep last years 7th pick instead of moving all the way down to 17 this year.

The Suns come off of their five game road trip going 4-1. The only loss came to the Miami Heat. In their wake, the Suns finished off the Magic, Bobcats, Grizzlies and Hawks. The only team on their besides the Heat that should have been close was the Grizzlies. The Magic gave the Suns a run for their money. The Suns should have played better defense in this game and it wouldn’t have been so close.

This coming week offers 4 games in 7 nights. The Suns don’t ever play a back-to-back, but play a game every other night. This at least gives the team a chance to rest a day after each of these games.

Leandro Barbosa really stepped up the last two games of this past Eastern swing. Barbosa had big games against the Heat and Magic. Against the Magic, he went for 11 points, 3 assists and only 1 turnover in 17 minutes. Barbosa plays tough defense and I would expect him to get even more time as the season goes on. He has played next to Nash and he can also take over the ball handling duties for Nash.

I’ve been emailing back and forth with a Suns fan by the name of Russ. Russ asks some really good questions about JJ and what will be available for the Suns this summer. I wanted to include one of his emails and my reply to his questions.

It sounds like you think the Suns will keep JJ. At first, I was happy to read that. But then I watched the game Wednesday against the Bobcats and started wondering if it was the right thing to do. Yes, JJ had a great game. And I'm really starting to like him in the role that he plays so well for the Suns. But watching Amare get into foul trouble makes me wonder if getting a big man wouldn't be a wiser use of salary cap room. I realize NBA big men are few and far between. What big men will be available this summer?

Amare has already stated he's a power forward and not a center. How long is he willing to play the center position for this team? Do you think it will impact his willingness to sign a long term contract this summer? If the Suns could get a defensive big man that can guard Shaq and Yao on the defensive end, they will be better off in the long run. That will free up Amare on defense and let him do what he does best. I guess it all comes back to what's available this summer.
Russ

The problem with not signing JJ is this. The Suns will be spending money on Amare, giving him a big contract. After this is done, the Suns will be at the salary cap limit for years to come, at least 5. So the Suns only option of adding a player that can help is the 5 mil exception and the draft. The Suns won’t be drafting low for a while and the Bulls were better than expected this past year so that pick will not be in the lottery.

The Suns best option is to sign JJ and then get a guy for the 5 mil exception. This will push them higher over the cap but the new owner appears to want to win more than money issues. If the Suns were able to sign JJ for a decent amount and Amare for Max, they would still be able to sign someone else to help the bench or to play center. This also gives them the option of trying to sign and trade JJ or Q for help under the basket. The question is whether it is better to sign JJ and maybe use the midlevel exception or to just let JJ walk and sign an all new player. I would rather see JJ signed and then the midlevel exception used. This would give the Suns the best team possible.

The best options at center or PF where the Suns need help are around this order:
Samuel Dalembert: 76ers
Stromile Swift: Grizzlies
Eddy Curry: Bulls
Donyell Marshall: Raptors
Dale Davis: Pacers
Ervin Johnson: T’Wolves
The Center market is really bad this upcoming season unless you have some money to throw around and most of the guys are young and unproven. Most of the better players this off season are shooting guards. Marshall and Johnson are the only ones on the above list that could end up in Phoenix by signing them. Marshall would cost the Suns the full midlevel and Johnson could probably be signed for the veteran minimum.

So if the Suns let JJ go, they wouldn’t be getting a guy back for the midlevel that could replace his production. The Suns could sign JJ and then get Marshall for a three year deal at the mid level, which would help the Suns.

The Suns are also looking at Chicago’s pick in this upcoming draft. They also have the rights to Milos Vujanic. If the Suns could package the Bulls pick with Vujanic and either a resigned JJ or Q for a center like Samuel Dalembert and other players, it could happen.
Amare doesn’t like saying he is a center or PF, he is a basketball player, whatever. So he can basically play anywhere under the basket and it would be great if the Suns could find a banger to put next to him. The problem is that their aren’t enough good bangers anymore.

So those are the options the Suns have this off-season of increasing the team, at least the options that appear available right now. Thanks for the email Russ and if anyone has any questions, just send them my way.

There isn’t going to be a game preview for tonight’s game against the Denver Nuggets. I’m just predicting that the Suns win by 5 and that it will be close. There will be game previews for the rest of the games this week. Each of which is against playoff teams.
Wed vs. Philadelphia
Fri vs. Minnesota
Sat at Houston

I’m OUT!
 
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Chaplin

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Well, another writer who doesn't realize that we're giving our pick to the Knicks, not San Antonio. :rolleyes:

We've got the best record in the league, and all these people can talk about is how many "bad" decisions we've made. I guess some people can't be satisfied.
 
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SweetD

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I agree this is BS we are the top team in the league, why would we change what isn't working just to go to a more traditional way of playing.
 

George O'Brien

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If memory serves, Hoopsworld guys are "volunteer" writers and not professional journalists. None the less, I agree with several points:

1. JJ cannot be replaced through use of the MLE.
2. The free agency market is heavy in guards.
3. MLE will not produce a serious center but might get someone like Marshall.
4. Signing JJ is about money and how much Sarver wants a championship.

The decision to move Zarko was a difficult one, but he obviously needed to start over. He would not be able to produce under the kind of pressure the Suns backups are faced with, while the experienced McCarty has been helpful.

In the long run, Iggy might have been a better choice than Q, but I'm not sure the Suns would have the same record this year.
 

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The guy as much as said that Z would be a star in this league. That's not going to happen, as much as I like the guy.
 
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SweetD

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Z still would not be getting the minutes he is getting now.
 

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Q is the heart of this team. He's totally changed the attitude that the Suns bring. And he's a clutch player. Iguadala is a good all around player, but look what Luol Deng is doing also. None of those two have the shooting touch JJ does or the one on one skills. I do however agree that the Suns style is great for the regular season, but we need a traditional lineup if we want to succeed in the playoffs and the long-run. Amare isn't nearly as effective on D if he was to be facing a player his own size.
 

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seriously - to bitch and complain in the middle of what's been the Suns best season ever and to wonder about how GREAT Iggy would be - considering how HUGE of an impact he's having in Phily is stupidity at its best. Anyone who can't see that getting a mid first rounder and the opportunity to sign Q(the heart of this team IMO) is a moron.
 

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SweetD said:
Z still would not be getting the minutes he is getting now.


True, I had hoped they would force more minutes early in the season for Zarko and Lampe so they might be ready to contribute now.

I guess it is hard to complain about the results so far.


I guess the larger question brought up by the article is have the Suns hurt themselves long term by making a push and moving young players this season?
 
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SweetD

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SirChaz said:
I guess the larger question brought up by the article is have the Suns hurt themselves long term by making a push and moving young players this season?

I would say no because if they need they can draft the same type of players in the draft when needed. The Suns needed vet role players. JJ,Q, Amare, Barbosa, & Marion are all young and should be with the team for many years. The Suns don't need projects anymore they need role players and maybe 1 rookie to fill a whole. Which can be had though the draft. I have the utmost confidence the Suns will draft a player of need.
 
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JPlay said:
Q is the heart of this team. He's totally changed the attitude that the Suns bring. And he's a clutch player. Iguadala is a good all around player, but look what Luol Deng is doing also. None of those two have the shooting touch JJ does or the one on one skills. I do however agree that the Suns style is great for the regular season, but we need a traditional lineup if we want to succeed in the playoffs and the long-run. Amare isn't nearly as effective on D if he was to be facing a player his own size.

This is a new era. Not like in the years pass were every team had a good to great center, except the Suns. I say lets see how we do in the playoffs before we count the Suns out. At the start of the season the Suns were unstoppable. They could be costing and ready for the playoffs.
 

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SirChaz said:
True, I had hoped they would force more minutes early in the season for Zarko and Lampe so they might be ready to contribute now.

I guess it is hard to complain about the results so far.


I guess the larger question brought up by the article is have the Suns hurt themselves long term by making a push and moving young players this season?

Well, it's not like they moved the really important young players. Besides our starters, the most important young player is Barbosa, and we still have him.
 

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Chaplin said:
Well, it's not like they moved the really important young players. Besides our starters, the most important young player is Barbosa, and we still have him.


I don't know. I thought Zarko could be a really nice player. He fits the "skill ball" style. That is 5 players on the floor that are threats to score. He also has something that cannot be taught, height. The other issue is giving up on a #17 draft pick so soon for 2 2nd rd picks.

Obivously the Suns braintrust did not feel the same way.
 

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I really don't see JJ going anywhere. With the team's success they have to be turning a profit now, especially with a guy like Sarver around. He's not Mark Cuban, but he's got more dough than JC did. Even if they sign Amare to a max extension and give JJ 8 million a year, they're still going to be spending 4-5 million less on payroll than they did when they had Googs, Marbury, and Penny. What with the increases in other teams' payrolls in the meantime, such a layout would still put the Suns in the middle of the league so far as team salary goes - right now they're very close to the bottom.
 
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SirChaz said:
I don't know. I thought Zarko could be a really nice player. He fits the "skill ball" style. That is 5 players on the floor that are threats to score. He also has something that cannot be taught, height. The other issue is giving up on a #17 draft pick so soon for 2 2nd rd picks.

Obivously the Suns braintrust did not feel the same way.

I am pretty sure it was Zarko and his agent that demanded the trade. Z had was not going to be the same player until he could get more minutes. He was a great pick and would be nice to have right now. But he was the one that wanted out. He was the one that didn't except his role for a team that was really making strides.
 

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SweetD said:
I am pretty sure it was Zarko and his agent that demanded the trade. Z had was not going to be the same player until he could get more minutes. He was a great pick and would be nice to have right now. But he was the one that wanted out. He was the one that didn't except his role for a team that was really making strides.


I think Zarko sealed his own fate by not staying in Phoenix for the summer. I don't blame the Suns for questioning his commitment to his NBA career after going home while Lampe, Jacobsen, and Barbosa played in the summer league.
 

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I refuse to read this article, all I know is that Scott Church is a college kid who knew absolutely nothing about the NBA, CBA and for the most part the Suns last season. His knowledge level was on target with the typical casual fan last I read one of his pieces.
 
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thegrahamcrackr said:
I refuse to read this article, all I know is that Scott Church is a college kid who knew absolutely nothing about the NBA, CBA and for the most part the Suns last season. His knowledge level was on target with the typical casual fan last I read one of his pieces.
That about sums it up.
 

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alright, here it is: suns have admitted that iggy was their guy, but they didn't think he'd last to 7, so they traded the pick. D'oh! oh well, life goes on.

however, they also made the trade knowing that an age limit would most likely be ratified this summer, making this coming draft the last one where young kids can come out. thus, this draft, while not being that strong at the top, is one of the deepest talent pools ever.

give our team the amount of talent that's out there and i'm sure they'll sift through and find some gem that can help.

17 is not that bad anyways, when you consider that nowadays graduating from college and entering the draft means you're going in the second round no matter how good you are.
 

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cheesebeef said:
seriously - to bitch and complain in the middle of what's been the Suns best season ever and to wonder about how GREAT Iggy would be - considering how HUGE of an impact he's having in Phily is stupidity at its best. Anyone who can't see that getting a mid first rounder and the opportunity to sign Q(the heart of this team IMO) is a moron.

For all of you guys that think that Q is the heart of team must be forgetting that Nash is in the running for MVP. All Q does is add a little emotion, Nash leads by example. Amare was doing all of the Q antics last year and Nash has come in and added a business like approach to the winning. Emotion may lose you as many games as it wins. Give me some stone face, level headed player any day, for example the Celtics with Bird, Parrish, McHale. Winning the championship takes a steady hand, not head pounding.

Nash has calmed Amare down, made Marion more effective and has given JJ more opportunities from 3 pt. Q has shot us out of as many games as he has hit clutch shots. 15 point leads tend to evaporate when he starts chucking.
 
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Cheesebeef

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coloradosun said:
For all of you guys that think that Q is the heart of team must be forgetting that Nash is in the running for MVP. All Q does is add a little emotion, Nash leads by example. Amare was doing all of the Q antics last year and Nash has come in and added a business like approach to the winning. Emotion may lose you as many games as it wins. Give me some stone face, level headed player any day, for example the Celtics with Bird, Parrish, McHale. Winning the championship takes a steady hand, not head pounding.

Nash has calmed Amare down, made Marion more effective and has given JJ more opportunities from 3 pt. Q has shot us out of as many games as he has hit clutch shots. 15 point leads tend to evaporate when he starts chucking.

yeah and JJ and Marion completely dissapearing for games at a time(JJ more so than Marion) has cost us games as well - but you belittle Q's attitude here too much I think. Both he AND Nash have been the leaders on this team IMO - Nash bringing the calm to the storm and Q bringing what I believes is out toughness(what little of it there is - the rest of the team - including Stoud at this point is pretty soft).

Bottom line - this is a team where the sum of it's parts... EVERYONE is a key - thus, the reason I find it laughable to bitch and complain about really any moves we made last offseason - that's all.
 
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coloradosun

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cheesebeef said:
yeah and JJ and Marion completely dissapearing for games at a time(JJ more so than Marion) has cost us games as well - but you belittle Q's attitude here too much I think. Both he AND Nash have been the leaders on this team IMO - Nash bringing the calm to the storm and Q bringing what I believes is out toughness(what little of it there is - the rest of the team - including Stoud at this point is pretty soft).

Bottom line - this is a team where the sum of it's parts... EVERYONE is a key - thus, the reason I find it laughable to bitch and complain about really any moves we made last offseason - that's all.

With so much talent on the team individual players are going to disappear at times. I think you guys give too much credit to Q, there were a lot of guys on this board last summer who desperately wanted to Iggy. I think at this time in the season and evaluating both guys, you could say that the Suns were in a no lose situation. I just think that Iggy could have added the same amount of spark, with lower costs but higher potential.

Also by saying Q is the emotional leader denegrates what Amare does, there is as much fire in his gut as Richardson's.
 

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coloradosun said:
Also by saying Q is the emotional leader denegrates what Amare does, there is as much fire in his gut as Richardson's.


I disagree. Amare's "fire" late in games often leads to him loosing his cool. I love him to death, but he has tried to take over games before and wound up putting us out of reach by forcing shots.

Q on the other hand gets his shots in the flow of the offense, and tends to make them when they count. Plus, he doesn't stop and cry to the officials.
 

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cheesebeef said:
seriously - to bitch and complain in the middle of what's been the Suns best season ever and to wonder about how GREAT Iggy would be - considering how HUGE of an impact he's having in Phily is stupidity at its best. Anyone who can't see that getting a mid first rounder and the opportunity to sign Q(the heart of this team IMO) is a moron.

I agree. Bryan Colangelo probably will be the unanimous pick as G.M. of the year, and this nitpicking is getting old.
 

coloradosun

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cheesebeef said:
seriously - to bitch and complain in the middle of what's been the Suns best season ever and to wonder about how GREAT Iggy would be - considering how HUGE of an impact he's having in Phily is stupidity at its best. Anyone who can't see that getting a mid first rounder and the opportunity to sign Q(the heart of this team IMO) is a moron.

This is the essence of these boards, to give your opinion. You can use the words "bitch", "complain", "stupidity" and "moron" if you like, that is your style. That is called emoting (look it up), I am giving opinions without insulting other posters.
 
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