Suns_fan69
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That 700k is over a third of JJ Barea's salary. They should siphon Bynum's salary to Barea!
Bynum gets slap on the wrist from NBA
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arthurracoon
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Exactly. This used to be status quo, sending a message 80's style of basketball that a lot of people want to see the game come back to.
Danny Fortson effectively ruined Zarko Cabarkapa's short career when he cheap shotted him and only got 3 games. The play was bad enough to have Jerry Colangelo call Fortson a thug.
Let's try to keep this in perspective.
MigratingOsprey
Thank You Paul!
No one that I know of and that goes double for what 80s style basketball involved into (was there anything less watchable than heat/knicks?)
mojorizen7
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NBA fine's should be handed out in percentages(of the players pay) instead of flat rates that either amount to pocket lint or an amount that actually hurts the players checkbook.....depending on how much their annual salary is.
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I think many of us have it in perspective, I'm not sure you do. The Marion comparison that you're agreeing with doesn't work at all for the simple reason that the NBA was unable to determine that the undercutting was intentional.
As for the Fortson play, it was very much the same kind of thing that Bynum did. It wasn't accepted behavior then and it isn't accepted behavior now. Yes, the play was much more physical back in the 80's but the Fortson hit and the Bynum hit would have both been considered violent and excessive even then. I've followed the NBA since the early/mid 60's and there isn't a time during that stretch where either of those fouls would be written off as simply being part of the game.
Steve
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Clothesline a guy that's up in the air and I'd agree with you. The NBA has put forth a concerted effort to get rid of the kind of plays where an unprotected player is hit while airborne. The risk of injury is so great that the league had to respond to the changing game.
Hitting Dick Van at the height of his jump just wasn't the same thing as clocking Dwyane Wade as he rises to the hoop would be and they call them for flagrants now even when a player is just trying to make a real play. The fact that Bynum did this while not even attempting to make a basketball play is what takes this shot to the next level. It's no longer a foul, it's an act of violence.
Steve
Cheesewater
(ex-Uriah Heep)
If you can't "send a message" by simply playing tough but by the rules then you shouldn't be in the league. You could set a firm pick, and if you do it right it sends a message. You don't have to be a classless punk about it.
No fan I know wants to return to that ugly brand of basketball. People who say they do must have a punk on their team they need to defend.
TRW
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I think 10 games would have been better. But, it's 5 games, so be it.
It wasn't even close to the dirtiest deed done on the court in the NBA that I have seen. "Back in the day" there were worse plays than that all of the time. Hell, Jerry Sloan and "Stormin'" Norman Van Lier used to beat the crap out of the Suns and every other team on a regular basis. I'm not saying what Bynum did was OK in any way and he got what the NBA deems is sufficient.
But, I think that there is a tendency to judge intent in these things that is really not fair. To say that Bynum intended to hurt Berea is a bit of a stretch IMO. No one knows that is the case, I don't care how insightful you think you are in watching these kinds of things.
Like I said, it was lighter than I think was deserved, but it is what it is.
It wasn't even close to the dirtiest deed done on the court in the NBA that I have seen. "Back in the day" there were worse plays than that all of the time. Hell, Jerry Sloan and "Stormin'" Norman Van Lier used to beat the crap out of the Suns and every other team on a regular basis. I'm not saying what Bynum did was OK in any way and he got what the NBA deems is sufficient.
But, I think that there is a tendency to judge intent in these things that is really not fair. To say that Bynum intended to hurt Berea is a bit of a stretch IMO. No one knows that is the case, I don't care how insightful you think you are in watching these kinds of things.
Like I said, it was lighter than I think was deserved, but it is what it is.
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I have no problem with the suspension. I've seen plenty of physical play over the past 50 years or so but I can't remember a time that this kind of play was ever considered just a hard foul. Keep in mind we're talking about a player that is off the ground by quite a bit and let's face it, back when Sloan and Van Lier played most of the game was played much closer to the hardwood. Big difference, IMO.
Steve
Errntknght
Registered User
Steve,
Thats what they claimed but Hell it was John Starks, so you know it was intentional. It was in the middle of a throng of people but I video taped that game and it was very clear that Starks was looking up at Marion when he pushed his way into his lower legs. Then the little sneak stuck his arms out like he was trying to help break his fall. In fact, the league mentioned that as the reason they didn't think there was any malicious intent.
The refs allowed Utah to be as vicious as they wanted against us. Ostertag hip checked Livingston into Googs legs in that famous play - no call. Malone nailed our players with several real nasty shots - the most famous one being kneeing ..... in the upper chest when he went over the top of him (somebody can fill in that blank, I'm sure). Starks was playing for Utah when he submarined Marion, if you recall.
Thats what they claimed but Hell it was John Starks, so you know it was intentional. It was in the middle of a throng of people but I video taped that game and it was very clear that Starks was looking up at Marion when he pushed his way into his lower legs. Then the little sneak stuck his arms out like he was trying to help break his fall. In fact, the league mentioned that as the reason they didn't think there was any malicious intent.
The refs allowed Utah to be as vicious as they wanted against us. Ostertag hip checked Livingston into Googs legs in that famous play - no call. Malone nailed our players with several real nasty shots - the most famous one being kneeing ..... in the upper chest when he went over the top of him (somebody can fill in that blank, I'm sure). Starks was playing for Utah when he submarined Marion, if you recall.
mojorizen7
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I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was intentional. I watched the game on Tivo and I re-watched that sequence many times and there is just no doubt in my mind that it was intentional. We had just gone on a run IIRC and there was a little on court celebrating as Utah was forced to call a time-out. Jerry got into his players faces about (I assume) our free path to the basket and shortly after play resumed Starks pulled his BS. He locates Marion in the air, turns and runs backward underneath him.
But, it doesn't matter what we believe. The league ruled that it wasn't intentional. IMO, it was the second dirtiest play I've ever seen. The dirtiest was a Rodman undercut of Harpring (playing for Orlando, IIRC). The league didn't do much for that play either and probably for the same reason.
Steve
boisesuns
Standing Tall And Traded
A few questions:
-If barea gets hurt on that play, do you think it would impact the number of games?
I'd say him not getting hurt seriously is why it's only 5. He's a repeat offender, so if it happens again, it might be significant
-There's a decent chance for Bynum to be traded, so the team who takes him on gets his suspension as well. Do the lakers keep him? Does this suspension and the fact that his last basketball play was a suspendable one, make other teams unwilling to trade for him?
-If barea gets hurt on that play, do you think it would impact the number of games?
I'd say him not getting hurt seriously is why it's only 5. He's a repeat offender, so if it happens again, it might be significant
-There's a decent chance for Bynum to be traded, so the team who takes him on gets his suspension as well. Do the lakers keep him? Does this suspension and the fact that his last basketball play was a suspendable one, make other teams unwilling to trade for him?
TheHopToad
Россия отстой!
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Certainly, if Barea had been seriously injured and had to miss the rest of the season, I think Bynum's suspension would have been longer.
The way that Barea was hit and sent airborne could have paralyzed him if he had landed the wrong way on his back or neck. I've seen less serious looking hits in football put guys in wheelchairs. Had that happened to Barea, this would be a national story transcending sports and the pubic outcry would have forced the league to ban Bynum for quite a bit longer, if not criminally charge him (ala Marty McSorley in hockey).
Bynum should say thank you very much for the five games/$700K and thank the Lord at night that Barea is OK.
jagu
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5 games is a joke. The guy is intentionally assaulting another player in the attempt to cause bodily harm. And the poor defenseless Barea could have seriously injured himself. The NBA is an effing joke.
Flashback to the old NBA.
Little guy dares drive the lane. Big guy smacks him into the courtside seats. Next time down, little guy pulls up.
Little guy dares drive the lane. Big guy smacks him into the courtside seats. Next time down, little guy pulls up.
JCSunsfan
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I remember when the Kermit Washington/Rudy T incident happened. Washington got a $10,000 fine and 60 days. Rudy was out for more than a year and potentially a career.
I thought then and still think now that the punishement should be severe and if an intentional vicious act causes injury, the penalty should be a suspension for as long as it takes for the other player to recover from the injury.
Just in case you forgot, Rudy T never saw it coming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8
I thought then and still think now that the punishement should be severe and if an intentional vicious act causes injury, the penalty should be a suspension for as long as it takes for the other player to recover from the injury.
Just in case you forgot, Rudy T never saw it coming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1i4Ddngg8
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I remember it well. I also remember the "explanation". Kermit was already in "fight" mode and, supposedly, thought Rudy was coming to attack him. I didn't completely buy it then and I still don't but I suspect there is a little truth to it. The league responded harshly because of the seriousness of the injury and the fact that it was an actual fight rather than a dirty foul during the action.
Although the punch had much more serious consequences, in many ways I consider Bynum's foul to be a dirtier act. It occurred during action but he made no attempt to make a basketball play. It's nowhere near as violent as Kermit's sucker punch but it's at least as cheap IMO. People that are comparing it to the old "protect the lane" fouls that used to be common seem to be ignoring this fact. He planted the elbow in the guy's ribs in order to do damage.
I think there's a big difference between Bynum's cheap shot and the hard fouls that used to be delivered by Sloan, Mahorn, Laimbeer, Lucas (Maurice or Jerry), Issel, Cowens and so many others. Even the cheap shots by Karl Malone were at least done as part of the game and if it had been up to me, Malone would have been suspended for a few thousand years for the stuff he pulled.
Steve
