Cardinal Tough Year II Offense

[kerouac9]

OMG you've become K9.

Seriously?!

Don't put my name into this; I'm on record over and over of being skeptical of PFF's stats in general and their OL analyses in particular for the reasons that DJ pretty clearly articulates. I'm much more likely to agree with the game observations of Ben Muth at FootballOutsiders than the faux stats that Pro Football Focus puts together.

I think that the consensus of the "experts" has generally been that Adam Snyder was the weakest player on the San Francisco offensive line. Now we've "poached" the weak links on two more-or-less successful offensive lines. So I guess there's that?

I just don't understand how anyone can take on faith that Whis and Grimm are going to be right about offensive line personnel at this point.

 

[Shane]

Seriously?!

Don't put my name into this; I'm on record over and over of being skeptical of PFF's stats in general and their OL analyses in particular for the reasons that DJ pretty clearly articulates. I'm much more likely to agree with the game observations of Ben Muth at FootballOutsiders than the faux stats that Pro Football Focus puts together.

I think that the consensus of the "experts" has generally been that Adam Snyder was the weakest player on the San Francisco offensive line. Now we've "poached" the weak links on two more-or-less successful offensive lines. So I guess there's that?

I just don't understand how anyone can take on faith that Whis and Grimm are going to be right about offensive line personnel at this point.

Man your touchy lately.

I was referring to his using PFF like its gospel. Kind of like you do with that guide you get. IT WAS A JOKE!

But Im with DUCK on this one. You will NEVER convince me that these guys that publish these have people that sit and watch every single player in the NFL for every single snap that was played analyzing how they did on EVERY play.

Furthermore even if you could prove that that occurred who in the hell is doing it?? Are they true football experts that know all the nuances of each position and what the duty entails?? Do they know the line calls on each play and who was who's responsibility?? There is no true way to grade from some 3rd party prying eye unless they know all the details.

 

[Duckjake]

Man your touchy lately.

I was referring to his using PFF like its gospel. Kind of like you do with that guide you get. IT WAS A JOKE!

But Im with DUCK on this one. You will NEVER convince me that these guys that publish these have people that sit and watch every single player in the NFL for every single snap that was played analyzing how they did on EVERY play.

Furthermore even if you could prove that that occurred who in the hell is doing it?? Are they true football experts that know all the nuances of each position and what the duty entails?? Do they know the line calls on each play and who was who's responsibility?? There is no true way to grade from some 3rd party prying eye unless they know all the details.

.

.... I'm on record over and over of being skeptical of PFF's stats in general and their OL analyses in particular for the reasons that DJ pretty clearly articulates. I'm much more likely to agree with the game observations of Ben Muth at FootballOutsiders than the faux stats that Pro Football Focus puts together.

K9, I know I saw a Football Outsiders page where they were talking about "blown blocks" and had a disclaimer about not wanting to rank individual offensive linemen because they couldn't know the assignments for each individual on each play. Now I can't find it. Any idea where it might be?

 

[Krangodnzr]

So if virtually everyone is saying the results of Snyder starting last season were crappy, you'll just attack individual sources. Ok I see how this game goes

 

[Krangodnzr]

I was referring to his using PFF like its gospel. Kind of like you do with that guide you get. IT WAS A JOKE!

It's a tool, just like reading any bit of analysis.

I know they view our roster much like I do, so I at least trust that they're mostly right.

Either way, I haven't read anything from the Niners side of the house or from national pundits that didn't say Snyder was terrible. Sometimes the Cardinals make some confounding moves...

 

[Duckjake]

So if virtually everyone is saying the results of Snyder starting last season were crappy, you'll just attack individual sources. Ok I see how this game goes

Who is virtually everyone? So far you've listed PFF and a sports blogger named Muth. That's virtually everyone?!? If many 49er fans are not saying he's crappy how can it be virtually everyone? Looks to me like you read one article from PFF and took it as gospel and then added Muth later to bolster your argument. So since you only listed two sources how can it be wrong for anyone to attack the individual sources but ok for you to attack the opinions of hard core SF fans?

And I still question all these so called in depth statistical analysis from intensive film study. Especially by guys who never played football.

Now I've just seen that Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. says that Snyder is awful so darn maybe he is. That will just suck letting Lutui go and signing a bum to replace him.

 

[Duckjake]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/60956/snyder-to-cardinals-some-perspective

OK now that explains why the SF fans weren't that down on Snyder as he was an improvement over Rachal who apparently was worse than horrible.

 

[kerouac9]

K9, I know I saw a Football Outsiders page where they were talking about "blown blocks" and had a disclaimer about not wanting to rank individual offensive linemen because they couldn't know the assignments for each individual on each play. Now I can't find it. Any idea where it might be?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/discussion/o-line-stats-rankings

Sorry, this is as close as I could get. I believe that to qualify as a "blown block", a guy has to engage with the defensive player, then lose that battle, and have the loss result in a sack to the quarterback.

Who is virtually everyone? So far you've listed PFF and a sports blogger named Muth. That's virtually everyone?!? If many 49er fans are not saying he's crappy how can it be virtually everyone? Looks to me like you read one article from PFF and took it as gospel and then added Muth later to bolster your argument. So since you only listed two sources how can it be wrong for anyone to attack the individual sources but ok for you to attack the opinions of hard core SF fans?

And I still question all these so called in depth statistical analysis from intensive film study. Especially by guys who never played football.

Now I've just seen that Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. says that Snyder is awful so darn maybe he is. That will just suck letting Lutui go and signing a bum to replace him.

Matt Williamson is an idiot. He doesn't watch a ton of non-AFC East or North games, and so he's a great font for conventional wisdom. I've never heard him say anything that wasn't the mainstream opinion of pretty much everyone.

Muth did play football, at Stanford and then I think he had a cup of coffee in the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

Thanks K9 that was the page I was looking for.

In addition, we should note that FO does not believe in "grading" players because we do not know assignments on any specific play. We try to mark events like blown blocks, but we don't guess what a guy was supposed to do if he doesn't specifically give up a sack. We prefer more trustworthy team-wide measures for offensive lines.

Aaron Schatz

Do you have this appendix to the "book"?

There's a statistical apppendix in the back of the book that includes the Top 20 players in blown blocks leading to sacks, and notes on a few other players in the individual team chapters. Once you get outside the Top 20, though, you're talking about guys with at most five blown blocks all year (even fewer for most guards and centers), and it's hard to find much meaningful difference between any two given players.

 

[Duckjake]

Matt Williamson is an idiot. He doesn't watch a ton of non-AFC East or North games, and so he's a great font for conventional wisdom. I've never heard him say anything that wasn't the mainstream opinion of pretty much everyone.

He may be an idiot but he makes 3 different sources who say Snyder isn't any good as a starter and only has value as the 6th man for an offensive line.

Couple that with the other problems on the oline, the injury history of our starting QB and top two RBs and rumors of Floyd not being ready to play to his first round draft status and our offense could be terrible this season.