Cardinals' Draft & Trades

[Cbus cardsfan]

MJ didnt even stand out in College. 17 sacks in 3 starting seasons? People only talk about him becasue of athletic ability because there is no production to talk about.



As a backup in 2007 he was still able to put up 9 tackles for loss and 7 sacks. Played mostly special teams in 2006 and 2007. But when he got a chance to start his senior year he racked up over 70 tackles and for a DL is awesome, 17 tackles for loss, and 9 sacks. So he has the production to go with the combine numbers.

Joe you need to get your facts straight. Last year was the only year Johnson was a starter and had 17.5 TFL plus 9 sacks. In 20007 he came off the bench in pass russhing situations. He had 3 forced fumbles,2 blocked kicks, 6 TFL, and 4 sacks. I'd hardly call him an un-productive college player.

Sidbury had similar production playing against very weaker competition. I like Sidbury but he's more of the workout/combine guy than Johnson. Sidbury will likely go more in the mid 3rd to early 4th round area.



AnalysisPositives: Rare athleticism for the position, making a switch to outside linebacker possible at the next level. … Lanky, athletic frame with the room for considerable growth. … Gained upper- and lower-body strength in his senior year and flashed the ability to bull rush tackles into the backfield. … Takes advantage of his long arms to keep pass blockers at a distance. … Able to keep tackles off his knees to avoid the cut block. … Locates the ball quickly and can re-direct his charge. … Good lateral agility and balance. … Good straight-line speed. … Accelerates quickly and has legitimate closing ability. … Flashes the ability to punch, rip off and back up tackles using his length and increasing strength. … Able to drop quickly, handle coverage responsibilities in the flat and has the hands to break up or intercept balls thrown in his area. … Reads the quarterback's eyes to get hands in passing lanes. … Able to force fumbles using his length to get a hand on the ball. Negatives: Is an unfinished product who needs to be more consistent in his technique and effort. … May be relegated to a role as a pass-rush specialist at defensive end until he gains more strength. … Too often relies on his speed to the outside to generate his pass rush, losing all gap responsibility. … Inconsistent in his explosiveness off the ball and as a tackler. … Has the speed and length to make life difficult for NFL tackles but must give more constant effort. … Washed out when blockers (even smaller tight ends) get into his pads; his height is a detriment in those situations. … Tends to stand around too much instead of chasing plays. … Johnson has struggled with various injuries over his career.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe you need to get your facts straight. Last year was the only year Johnson was a starter and had 17.5 TFL plus 9 sacks. In 20007 he came off the bench in pass russhing situations. He had 3 forced fumbles,2 blocked kicks, 6 TFL, and 4 sacks. I'd hardly call him an un-productive college player.

I got my facts straight. MJ may not have shown up as starting in the game but he played in 75% of the defensive snaps according to NFL networks Mayock, he got staters playing time. He had 15 TFL and only 7 sacks last year. Thats offical numbers from his teams own website.

As a pass rush specialist coming in to do nothing but pin your ears back how is 4 sacks as a junior anywhere even close to productive. He was asked to do one thing and not even worry about containing his gap or the outside edge. He was able to just pin his ears back and get sacks. He goes out and gets 4 of them? Thats not even close to productive, not even a little bit.

49 games as a pass rush specialist and he comes out of that with 17 sacks. That is the epitome of an unproductive college player.

Seen the guy play multiple times and his effort and heart is noticably lacking. Shys away from any contact what so ever, and once he does get hit he goes into his shell faster then Arrington having nightmares about Roy Williams hitting him again.

Sidbury had similar production playing against very weaker competition. I like Sidbury but he's more of the workout/combine guy than Johnson. Sidbury will likely go more in the mid 3rd to early 4th round area.

And there is your difference between taking a guy @ 31 and 63. Comparing apples and oranges here. If we were comparing MJ and Sidbury both @ 63 then we would have a debate. Also their production is not similar. Sidbury got, 110 tackles, 28 tackles for loss and 16 sacks in 29 games, MJ got 98 tackles,27 Tackles for loss and 16 sacks in 37 games. DRC got production against weaker competition as well. I used to buy that arguement as well but I just dont anymore, production and talent is production and talent regardless.

 

[WildBB]

Seen the guy play multiple times and his effort and heart is noticably lacking. Shys away from any contact what so ever, and once he does get hit he goes into his shell faster then Arrington having nightmares about Roy Williams hitting him again.



And there is your difference between taking a guy @ 31 and 63. Comparing apples and oranges here. If we were comparing MJ and Sidbury both @ 63 then we would have a debate. Also their production is not similar. Sidbury got, 110 tackles, 28 tackles for loss and 16 sacks in 29 games, MJ got 98 tackles,27 Tackles for loss and 16 sacks in 37 games. DRC got production against weaker competition as well. I used to buy that arguement as well but I just dont anymore, production and talent is production and talent regardless.

I would just as soon take a less awsome physical specimen in Laurinaitis. At least you know your getting total effort at all times. Give me the never ending motor guy who might take a licking one down and come back "orneryer" than ever the next .

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I got my facts straight. MJ may not have shown up as starting in the game but he played in 75% of the defensive snaps according to NFL networks Mayock, he got staters playing time. He had 15 TFL and only 7 sacks last year. Thats offical numbers from his teams own website.

As a pass rush specialist coming in to do nothing but pin your ears back how is 4 sacks as a junior anywhere even close to productive. He was asked to do one thing and not even worry about containing his gap or the outside edge. He was able to just pin his ears back and get sacks. He goes out and gets 4 of them? Thats not even close to productive, not even a little bit.

49 games as a pass rush specialist and he comes out of that with 17 sacks. That is the epitome of an unproductive college player.

Seen the guy play multiple times and his effort and heart is noticably lacking. Shys away from any contact what so ever, and once he does get hit he goes into his shell faster then Arrington having nightmares about Roy Williams hitting him again.



And there is your difference between taking a guy @ 31 and 63. Comparing apples and oranges here. If we were comparing MJ and Sidbury both @ 63 then we would have a debate. Also their production is not similar. Sidbury got, 110 tackles, 28 tackles for loss and 16 sacks in 29 games, MJ got 98 tackles,27 Tackles for loss and 16 sacks in 37 games. DRC got production against weaker competition as well. I used to buy that arguement as well but I just dont anymore, production and talent is production and talent regardless.

I love ya Joe and think you give me more real information on the Cardinals then anyone not paid too. And I to have watched Johnson play a good amount and wouldn't waste a pick on him either.

But to play Devils Advocate, around this time least year you were praying the Cards didn't take the "workout warrior" in DRC. And that seemed to work out well. What are the big differences between MJ and DRC that you see that will transalte into a different outcome?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I think we could get a first for Leinart. QB's have a high value.

I agree we should look at trading both to improve the balance of the team.

You can make the argument and in our heads it would seem valid. Like with what Mitch said in the OP about the Jets needing the postion, not wanting to take Sanchez, and it being "just" the #17 pick for a potential QBOF.

But what makes sense and what value players are given in the NFL FO's with trades is a completely different story. I would be shocked at this point unless there was a presonnel person who was in love with Matt, if we could get more then a 3rd rounder for him.

I also think the Dallas deal with DET for Williams is distorting our perception of what we might get for Q. That was a unique situation.

I don't see that we can get the value any of us would find comensurate for either of those two players. But especially not with Matt. Q at least has numbers and Pro Bowls to point to.

 

[WildBB]

I love ya Joe and think you give me more real information on the Cardinals then anyone not paid too. And I to have watched Johnson play a good amount and wouldn't waste a pick on him either.

But to play Devils Advocate, around this time least year you were praying the Cards didn't take the "workout warrior" in DRC. And that seemed to work out well. What are the big differences between MJ and DRC that you see that will transalte into a different outcome?

You seemed to answer your question. You just were'nt impressed with his on field production. That seems to be his drawback, being a one dimensional player with limited production.

Compart that with someone like Laurinaitis:


Ohio State LB James Laurinaitis and his role model
2:46 PM Wed, Mar 04, 2009 | Permalink
Rick Gosselin E-mail News tips

Ohio State linebacker James Laurinaitis had a huge advantage in his quest to become a professional athlete. His father Joe already walked in those shoes. The elder Laurinaitis was a professional wrestler known as "The Animal."

"He does a great job of being a role model, teaching me how to handle things and how to handle success," James said. "He taught me two very important lessons early in life. First, the day I ever become satisfied as a player, just walk away. If you think you're good enough, and you've accomplished everything, you should be done. Secondly, he taught me no matter how hard you're working, there's always someone else, somewhere else working that much harder trying to take your spot."

No one worked harder than Laurinaitis in this draft class. He was a three-year starter at Ohio State and a three-time All-America, winning the Nagurski Award as the best defender in college football in 2006 and the Butkus Award as the best linebacker in 2007. He was the Big Ten's Defensive Player of the Year in 2008.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

No one worked harder than Laurinaitis in this draft class. He was a three-year starter at Ohio State and a three-time All-America, winning the Nagurski Award as the best defender in college football in 2006 and the Butkus Award as the best linebacker in 2007. He was the Big Ten's Defensive Player of the Year in 2008.

do not, i repeat,DO NOT draft Laurinitis. He's like all those old Duke college bball players. Great college players, average, at best, pros.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Mayock is not always right.

2007 SeasonSaw action in all 13 games, coming off the bench in basically every passing situation … started in the Humanitarian Bowl … his three forced fumbles rank tied for seventh in the ACC and tied for 55th nationally … had 21 tackles including 11 solos … had 6.0 TFLs and 4.0 sacks … led the team with four QB hurries … also led the team in blocked kicks (2) … forced three fumbles and recovered one … both of his tackles in the season opener at Notre Dame (Sept. 1) were for loss … also had one sack, one forced fumble and one quarterback hurry against the Irish … recovered a fumble the next week vs. Samford (Sept. 8) … forced a fumble, had a tackle-for-loss and three total tackles at Virginia (Sept. 22) … had a season-high two quarterback hurries at Miami in the Orange Bowl (Oct. 13) … was at his best in the Virginia Tech game (Nov. 1) … had two sacks, seven total tackles, five solo efforts, blocked a Hokie kick, forced a fumble and had one QB hurry … had a sack at Duke (Nov. 10) … blocked a potential game-winning field goal by North Carolina (Nov. 17) as time expired.



the guy may turn out to be a bust.But he also could turn out to be the best pass rusher in the draft. I would take a chance on him at 31. He was not an un-productive player in college and there was a reason he was the #1 rated DE going into this past season. He didn't play up to expectations,thus the draft position slip, but he did not have a bad year either. I'm not going to write him off because Mayock says he's soft.In my best Bill Polian voice, who the hell is Mike Mayock? What about Gruden,an actual NFL coach, saying he reminds him of Julius Peppers. I'm not saying he has to be be our pick but he should be in the mix. That's if he's even there.I think Sidbury is easily more of a reach at 63 than Johnson at 31.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Mayock is not always right.

2007 SeasonSaw action in all 13 games, coming off the bench in basically every passing situation … started in the Humanitarian Bowl … his three forced fumbles rank tied for seventh in the ACC and tied for 55th nationally … had 21 tackles including 11 solos … had 6.0 TFLs and 4.0 sacks … led the team with four QB hurries … also led the team in blocked kicks (2) … forced three fumbles and recovered one … both of his tackles in the season opener at Notre Dame (Sept. 1) were for loss … also had one sack, one forced fumble and one quarterback hurry against the Irish … recovered a fumble the next week vs. Samford (Sept. 8) … forced a fumble, had a tackle-for-loss and three total tackles at Virginia (Sept. 22) … had a season-high two quarterback hurries at Miami in the Orange Bowl (Oct. 13) … was at his best in the Virginia Tech game (Nov. 1) … had two sacks, seven total tackles, five solo efforts, blocked a Hokie kick, forced a fumble and had one QB hurry … had a sack at Duke (Nov. 10) … blocked a potential game-winning field goal by North Carolina (Nov. 17) as time expired.



the guy may turn out to be a bust.But he also could turn out to be the best pass rusher in the draft. I would take a chance on him at 31. He was not an un-productive player in college and there was a reason he was the #1 rated DE going into this past season. He didn't play up to expectations,thus the draft position slip, but he did not have a bad year either. I'm not going to write him off because Mayock says he's soft.In my best Bill Polian voice, who the hell is Mike Mayock? What about Gruden,an actual NFL coach, saying he reminds him of Julius Peppers. I'm not saying he has to be be our pick but he should be in the mix. That's if he's even there.I think Sidbury is easily more of a reach at 63 than Johnson at 31.

The difference between Mayock and Gruden is that Mike watches tape 24/7... that's his job.

And what does Gruden know about "D"?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

The difference between Mayock and Gruden is that Mike watches tape 24/7... that's his job.

And what does Gruden know about "D"?

Gruden had SiMEon. Just the fact the Rice hates him makes me like him more. Believe me, i'd trust Gruden over any "draft expert". My favorite thing said during the combine was by Gruden. They had their "panel" and everyone was ripping on a player,i forget who, and Gruden piped in that everyone was breaking this guy down on what he couldn't do. Gruden said you need to look at what he CAN do. That's where his value is.

Mayock is no different than Kiper or McShay. He just comes off better.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Gruden had SiMEon. Just the fact the Rice hates him makes me like him more. Believe me, i'd trust Gruden over any "draft expert". My favorite thing said during the combine was by Gruden. They had their "panel" and everyone was ripping on a player,i forget who, and Gruden piped in that everyone was breaking this guy down on what he couldn't do. Gruden said you need to look at what he CAN do. That's where his value is.

Mayock is no different than Kiper or McShay. He just comes off better.

Mayock is the son of a coach and he played in the league... I wouldn't compare him to either Kiper or McShay.

 

[DoTheDew]

do not, i repeat,DO NOT draft Laurinitis. He's like all those old Duke college bball players. Great college players, average, at best, pros.

I agree, he will only be situational player, primarily as a run stopper. He is much too slow to be a pass rusher or play coverage. I think his NFL career will amount to goal-line situations and special teams.

 

[joeshmo]

But to play Devils Advocate, around this time least year you were praying the Cards didn't take the "workout warrior" in DRC. And that seemed to work out well. What are the big differences between MJ and DRC that you see that will transalte into a different outcome?

Very true. But DRC wasnt a workout warrior at the time everyone was talking about him pre-combine, he had 3 awesome dominate years of production and football in college though to go with his workout. What I didnt like was the fact that he rose up draft boards faster then any other player, and historically those players usually dont pan out. Not a soul heard or talked about the guy then wham he was a 1st round prospect. And that was my fear. Plus I wanted someone that could play right away and thought DRC would take a year to refine his technique, turns out he did it in only a half a year. It also could have been fear of the unknown with DRC coming from a small school and all, I wasnt able to trust my own eyes for the most part, fear of the unknown I guess you can say, that isnt the case with MJ though.

 

[cgolden]

I figured you were writing it when it happened. I would rather have a player who has proven they can play at the professional level yes. Looking at a 2 year window and assuming Kurt can lead us back to the SB is fun, but at the expense of setting the franchise back a few years? If it didn't pan out, and Kurt retired without his next ring, we would be either paying huge money for a QB or drafting one. Whis has not been a great developer of QB's. Ask Big Ben. You are basically betting a lot on one season. Who's to say Kurt doesn't come back and suck next year then retire? Where would that leave us?

Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself when you say that we should keep Leinart because he's the future but we shouldn't consider a developmental guy b/c Whiz can't do that?

Anyways Ben may not have liked Whiz's style but he can't argue with the results.