Cardinals Need a Keim-Time Draft

Mitch

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With all the speculation that Steve Keim seems intent on drafting one-year FS T.J. Green with the #29 pick in this draft, Keim would be drafting a player who has not played CB in college, This, if true, this would be an experiment that realistically would take Green and the coaches a couple of years to develop, if ever at all. To think that the coaches can just take a good athlete and turn him into a legit NFL press CB from scratch is borderline arrogant. They have had three years to try to turn Justin Bethel into a starting caliber CB and that experiment is still a work in progress, despite the fact that BA has avowed that Bethel has as much natural ability as Patrick Peterson.

If drafting T.J. Green is Steve Keim's answer to questionable 1st round picks in 2 of his first 3 drafts, wow. Just wow. Years of scouting amounting to zeroing in---at the last minute---on a player who hadn't even played defense until this year---on top of which if you watch this kid try to tackle, he rarely squares up and winds up diving a single shoulder or mostly arm tackling---which, if you go and watch established 3-4 years DBs like Keanu Neal and Karl Joseph who not only square up and make big-time tackles, their passion for the game ignites everyone around them. To draft T.J. Green in front of players like Neal and Joseph would be a complete scouting debacle.

It's like all they did was go to the Combine and pick put the tallest, fastest DB and projected him to press CB, even though he's never played it.

The Cardinals have been getting tougher, both physically and mentally---but they still are not in the same league of toughness as Seattle and Carolina, two teams that beat the snot out of the Cardinals late last season and took so much of the luster of a great season away from them.

If Keim doesn't recognize the need to take this team's toughness up another notch, then just how legit will the Cardinals be as Super Bowl contenders? In fact, once the Rams get their QB situation settled---they could leapfrog the Cardinals if Keim doesn't take this roster to the next level. The Vikings are getting tougher---they have been grooming that culture under Mike Zimmer.

The Cardinals still have certain players who clearly shy away from contact---and when other teams see this they bristle with confidence. For example, the Cardinals for the last two years have had punt returners who clearly are timid and play timid. Why does Ted Ginn play timid for the Cardinals and then return punts like a man for the Panthers? Why do the Cardinals tolerate anything less than all-out effort and toughness?

if Steve Keim doesn't draft for toughness---what does that say?

It says in part they are trying to win by out-finessing teams.

Word was last spring that D.J.Humphries' body type was a real problem. How can that even happen for a first round draft pick?

The one tough guy Keim has drafted in the first round, Deion Bucannon, has made a huge impact at a position of need. Yes, they had to groom him to play WILB, but in certain sense that position is not too different from playing strong safety. But the key was going in that Bucannon had a well established reputation for playing super tough. He sticks his nose in there and plays tough.

I have yet to warm up to ESPN's Josh Weinfuss as ESPN's NFL Nation Cardinals' Insider---but he made a pick for the Cardinals last night that was far more reasonable than T.J. Green. LSU LB Deion Jones gets after it---he is a baller. He plays to his 4.38 speed. T.J. Green runs a 4.36, but he appears lost on tape at times---partly because as a former WR converting to FS, he was learning a new position and partly because he hasn't developed defensive instincts and proper techniques---and it's quite a gamble to believe he ever will. isn't it? A gamble worth a 1st round pick? "C'mon, man."

Let's not forget that on top of looking completely intimidated by the Panthers in the NFCCG, there were only 4 Cardinals who stood up and played tough: RB David Johnson, SS Tony Jefferson, LB Kevin Minter and P Drew Butler.

Where was Pro Bowl DE Calais Campbell in this game? Pro Bowl CB Patrick Peterson? Pro Bowl QB Carson Palmer? Even WR Larry Fitzgerald was not himself.

How in the world can Steve Keim justify a $15.2M cap hit for DE Calais Campbell? What does that say about accountability? When you watch his half-arsed effort in the NFCCG, how in the world can he be given a mulligan, when quite frankly his motor went on idle for several games during the season, to the point where BA had to call him out.

The Campbell situation needs to be addressed one way or another. Otherwise, it says to players that they can get the big contract and then underachieve, even in the most important game.

Now---the great news Steve Keim had added toughness to the roster this off-season in trading for DE Chandler Jones and in signing RG Evan Mathis and S Tyvon Branch (who has the size a speed and experience to play press coverage on taller WRs and TEs).

Thus---will Steve Keim take his drafting up a notch this year and shun reaching for experimental players in lieu of drafting self-starters who have displayed great passion, toughness and leadership in college?

Simply put, the Cardinals need tougher blockers on offense, tougher tacklers on defense and finally tougher ST players. The bar for toughness has been set in the NFL and in the NFC. The Cardinals are in a prime position to reach and even exceed that standard. This draft can help get them over the hump. Get'r done, Steve Keim!
 
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Russ Smith

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I would add that so far how many times have the Cards actually taken the player that people were predicting we'd take?

Seems the last few years not very often at all. Peterson may have been the last one although I'm probably missing someone.
 

WildBB

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if Steve Keim doesn't draft for toughness---what does that say?

Thanks Mitch. Indeed I and many here hope this is not the case. Especially with a deep DL and CB draft in the 1st. Hopefully just a smokescreen.
 

Cardiac

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I agree that Green shouldn't be out pick at #29. Not sure we need the preemptive strike about it though.

Tough players drafted last year, DJ (jury out), Golden - Yes, D Johnson - Hell Yes, Gunter - Yes, Riddick (jury out but he is a very large man), JJ Nelson - Too small to be tough unless you grade on a scale :)

I do agree that Ginn and P2 are pansy's returning punts and we need to upgrade there.

Since we both agree that Green would be a lousy pick at 29 which tough player do you want at 29 or any round for that matter.

I think Campbell gets too much grief from too many on this board.

I know you like Keanu Neal and Karl Joseph, who else?
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Green would be a bad pick at 29. You'd be drafting an athlete and not a football player. That rarely works out.

I think Ryan Kelly is undoubtedly the target. If he's gone, all bets are off the table. If they stay at 29, I'd roll the dice on Nkemdiche. In the ned talent usually wins out and he's ultra talented. The Cards have a strong locker room and Frostee, HB,PP,CC could all serve as mentors and keep him in line.

My prediction, if Kelly is gone, the Cards trade back with Dallas who jump to 29 and draft Derrick Henry.
 

WildBB

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Green would be a bad pick at 29. You'd be drafting an athlete and not a football player. That rarely works out.

I think Ryan Kelly is undoubtedly the target. If he's gone, all bets are off the table. If they stay at 29, I'd roll the dice on Nkemdiche. In the ned talent usually wins out and he's ultra talented. The Cards have a strong locker room and Frostee, HB,PP,CC could all serve as mentors and keep him in line.

My prediction, if Kelly is gone, the Cards trade back with Dallas who jump to 29 and draft Derrick Henry.

I think they have 4-5 main targets, not 1. Not wise when your at the bottom of the round. The 120 board is hammered out.
 

DVontel

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I think we're going to draft Vernon Butler or Noah Spence.

Would love both picks.
 
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Mitch

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I agree that Green shouldn't be out pick at #29. Not sure we need the preemptive strike about it though.

Tough players drafted last year, DJ (jury out), Golden - Yes, D Johnson - Hell Yes, Gunter - Yes, Riddick (jury out but he is a very large man), JJ Nelson - Too small to be tough unless you grade on a scale :)

I do agree that Ginn and P2 are pansy's returning punts and we need to upgrade there.

Since we both agree that Green would be a lousy pick at 29 which tough player do you want at 29 or any round for that matter.

I think Campbell gets too much grief from too many on this board.

I know you like Keanu Neal and Karl Joseph, who else?

Tough Guys Potentially at #29:

RB Derrick Henry
C Ryan Kelly
G/C Cody Whitehair
G/C Joshua Garnett
C Nick Martin
T Shon Coleman
T/G/C Germain Ifedi
DT Vernon Butler
DT Robert Nkemdiche
DT A'Shawn Robinson
DT Chris Jones
DT/DE Jihad Ward
DE/OLB Noah Spence
DE/OLB Kevin Dodd
DE/OLB Emmanuel Ogbah
LB/S Su'a Cravens
LB/S Myles Killebrew
S Keanu Neal
S Karl Joseph
S Vonn Bell

Instant Impact Guys:

WR Sterling Shepard
WR Braxton Miller
WR Josh Doctson
WR Will Fuller
TE Hunter Henry
LB Deion Jones
SS/LB Jeremy Cash
CB Mackensie Alexander
CB William Jackson
CB Kendall Fuller
CB/S Justin Simmons
 

Cardiac

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Tough Guys Potentially at #29:

RB Derrick Henry
C Ryan Kelly
G/C Cody Whitehair
G/C Joshua Garnett
C Nick Martin
T Shon Coleman
T/G/C Germain Ifedi
DT Vernon Butler
DT Robert Nkemdiche
DT A'Shawn Robinson
DT Chris Jones
DT/DE Jihad Ward
DE/OLB Noah Spence
DE/OLB Kevin Dodd
DE/OLB Emmanuel Ogbah
LB/S Su'a Cravens
LB/S Myles Killebrew
S Keanu Neal
S Karl Joseph
S Vonn Bell

Instant Impact Guys:

WR Sterling Shepard
WR Braxton Miller
WR Josh Doctson
WR Will Fuller
TE Hunter Henry
LB Deion Jones
SS/LB Jeremy Cash
CB Mackensie Alexander
CB William Jackson
CB Kendall Fuller
CB/S Justin Simmons

Great lists Mitch, thanks. Butler, then Spence, then Chris Jones are my top choices.

Is Ifedi a 1st rd talent because I love his flexibility.

I haven't seen any tape on Jihad, is he worthy of the 29th pick.
 
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Mitch

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Great lists Mitch, thanks. Butler, then Spence, then Chris Jones are my top choices.

Is Ifedi a 1st rd talent because I love his flexibility.

I haven't seen any tape on Jihad, is he worthy of the 29th pick.

I like your choices in Butler, Spence and Jones as each can help improve the pass rush.

Many mocks have Ifedi going to Seattle at #26.

Jihad Ward is very raw, but has an intriguing blend of quickness and power. I think he's a gamble at #29. I would take your three guys well before him.
 

gmabel830

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I think if someone wants to trade ahead of Denver to get a QB, we will happily oblige. Especially if it is someone like TJ Green they have fallen in love with.
 

CFLredzoned

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Simply put, the Cardinals need tougher blockers on offense, tougher tacklers on defense and finally tougher ST players. The bar for toughness has been set in the NFL and in the NFC. The Cardinals are in a prime position to reach and even exceed that standard. This draft can help get them over the hump. Get'r done, Steve Keim!

I couldn't agree more. Carolina's front 7 set a new bar for physicality last year. I don't think the league has seen anything like that. I really think it might change the interior OL positions at some level. It's too much to scheme for. You're going to need bigger, stronger men on the inside.

I heard that with the abundace of front 7 prospects, there's a perceived shortage of everything else and alot of teams in the first round will be grabbing those other positions while they can - leaving alot of front 7 guys. Maybe a good one is left on the board for us at #29. After the Cardinals second pick at #92, I'm really hoping one of those guys is a massive, powerful dude that plays on the inside - offense or defense.
 

kerouac9

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I would add that so far how many times have the Cards actually taken the player that people were predicting we'd take?

Seems the last few years not very often at all. Peterson may have been the last one although I'm probably missing someone.

Peterson, Cooper, and Floyd were fairly telegraphed picks, as was Dan Williams. Apparently Keim made it pretty clear to Mayock who he liked last year.
 

mwanamatapa

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Mayock has Artie Burns going to the Cards at 29 in his one and only mock. He did say that Keim would probably like to trade back and possibly take a QB
 

oaken1

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lets not go all keim time in this draft...
would kinda like to see us draft a guy in the first round who will actually be on the field this season
 

oaken1

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Mayock has Artie Burns going to the Cards at 29 in his one and only mock. He did say that Keim would probably like to trade back and possibly take a QB

Burns would be a fantastic pick at...oh,..... 40 or so....... but he is a reach at 29......... undisciplined and makes too much hand contact......
another first rounder project..
 

AZCrazy

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DL and LB and CB are all needs but they are luxury picks at this point.
We are in deep doodoo at center right now. We let our starter go, didn't replace him in free agency, we have only AQ Shipley on the roster who was badly outmanned when in service last year, and that's it.

Literally the best we can do is to pray for the miracle of having to start a rookie at center next year (blech), and then get the one and only immediate-starter worthy center to somehow fall to #29.

This could be a problem if it doesn't work out.
 

SoCal Cardfan

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lets not go all keim time in this draft...
would kinda like to see us draft a guy in the first round who will actually be on the field this season


I want FA acquisition Keim working this draft, not the "draft players for the bench" Keim.
 

Chopper0080

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Mayock has Artie Burns going to the Cards at 29 in his one and only mock. He did say that Keim would probably like to trade back and possibly take a QB

Put Burns on the board if Mayock says it is so.

In truth, Burns is the kind of player who has too much on his shoulders to fail in the NFL. He will stick wherever he goes unless injuries derail his career.
 
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