Cardinals Over Under 8.5 2025 Season

[kerouac9]

BTW early money coming in heavy on the Cards under. -120 on BetMGM vs +100 (even money) for the over.

 

[BACH]

I don't make wild assertions of fact and then get Big Mad when they're challenged.

As always, PFF grades are pure hokum. They're not acceptable as evidence for me. Do better.

Second, if your argument were "it takes time for OL to develop into above average starters," I'd completely agree with you. But that's not the assertion you made. Here's the assertion that you made:





It doesn't even seem like your own fake metrics bear that out.

And then there's just a pure logic error in saying that because some OTs break out and become elite in their third season it will probably happen for PJJ in his third. There's no causal relationship there.

Again, it's not unfair to single out your weakest arguments and hold them up for scrutiny. That's what argumentation is. That's how logic works. If it makes you sad, have stronger arguments or assume that when you say something controversial it's gonna be questioned.

WOW!!!

So much to unpack here....

1. Love how you try to undermine me as a person by calling it MY fake facts. I use metrics used by all 32 NFL teams and when it doesn't suit your agenda, the generic metrics become MINE.

2. Love even more how you make up quotes from me out of thin air. You are putting in a quote that I have never said or posted. But hey. Don't let facts and the truth come in the way, when you want to be right, right.

3. You do not buy PFF grades, so I have to do better... Yeah, I can see how it's suddenly my problem that some rando posting from his mom's basement on a Cardinals board doesn't believe in metrics used in the toolbox by all NFL teams.

You know what.... Nah. I have posted metrics that are widely used throughout the NFL and NFL media to support my statement. It's not my problem that you do not believe in it. I posted the best metrics there is. If you have a problem with that, then present your counter metrics. Fact is you have ZERO other metrics to offer. All you can say is, that you do not believe in that. Well, tough *******, because I personally has decided that the Earth is flat, so my argument holds.

4. Let's look at the stats...
4a. It's funny how fake metrics can accurately list the general consensus top 12 OTs in the league using all fake numbers. But understood.

4b. Let's do the simple stats for your understanding. I list 12 players. I stated 9 of of 10 do not reach Elite level until their 3rd year. I bow down. Using the current top 12 it's 84%, but that is with the assumption that Cross will reach elite level in his 4th year and PJJ in his third. 84%<90%, so every valid point I make falls to pieces due to that fact that I was only 84% right and not 90% as I claimed, right? I mean you argue that 84% = 0% in your post. (You better pray that PJJ and Cross will reach Elite level next season, otherwise my stats actually goes above 90%)

4c. It doesn't seem you understand what we are even discussing here. The discussion is about development with experience. You have a dataset with certain parameters. You disqualify widely accepted the parameters based on you not believing in it - without any explanation whatsoever. K9 knows better and do not have to explain or argue anything. Meanwhile the parameters are not that important. The important part is trend in the dataset. You are not even trying to explain why the metrics increase with experience. Just "I'm right". Briliant!

4d. Let's actually look at the data. If you correlate the performance vs. the experience you a medium correlation of 38,5 with a 97,5% conf. level. Given the dataset is based on only 12 players that is actually VERY VERY high, so a clear indication that years of NFL experience has a very big impact on performanace.

 

[GeorgiaCard88]

On paper- this team should win 9-10 games at least.

But this is the same team (carbon copy basically minus a guard on offense) that got their season ended by Bryce young and the panthers last season. I wouldn’t bet your life savings on this boys

 

[BullheadCardFan]

On paper- this team should win 9-10 games at least.

But this is the same team (carbon copy basically minus a guard on offense) that got their season ended by Bryce young and the panthers last season. I wouldn’t bet your life savings on this boys

I agree with no betting

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Chopper0080]

WOW!!!

So much to unpack here....

1. Love how you try to undermine me as a person by calling it MY fake facts. I use metrics used by all 32 NFL teams and when it doesn't suit your agenda, the generic metrics become MINE.

2. Love even more how you make up quotes from me out of thin air. You are putting in a quote that I have never said or posted. But hey. Don't let facts and the truth come in the way, when you want to be right, right.

3. You do not buy PFF grades, so I have to do better... Yeah, I can see how it's suddenly my problem that some rando posting from his mom's basement on a Cardinals board doesn't believe in metrics used in the toolbox by all NFL teams.

You know what.... Nah. I have posted metrics that are widely used throughout the NFL and NFL media to support my statement. It's not my problem that you do not believe in it. I posted the best metrics there is. If you have a problem with that, then present your counter metrics. Fact is you have ZERO other metrics to offer. All you can say is, that you do not believe in that. Well, tough *******, because I personally has decided that the Earth is flat, so my argument holds.

4. Let's look at the stats...
4a. It's funny how fake metrics can accurately list the general consensus top 12 OTs in the league using all fake numbers. But understood.

4b. Let's do the simple stats for your understanding. I list 12 players. I stated 9 of of 10 do not reach Elite level until their 3rd year. I bow down. Using the current top 12 it's 84%, but that is with the assumption that Cross will reach elite level in his 4th year and PJJ in his third. 84%<90%, so every valid point I make falls to pieces due to that fact that I was only 84% right and not 90% as I claimed, right? I mean you argue that 84% = 0% in your post. (You better pray that PJJ and Cross will reach Elite level next season, otherwise my stats actually goes above 90%)

4c. It doesn't seem you understand what we are even discussing here. The discussion is about development with experience. You have a dataset with certain parameters. You disqualify widely accepted the parameters based on you not believing in it - without any explanation whatsoever. K9 knows better and do not have to explain or argue anything. Meanwhile the parameters are not that important. The important part is trend in the dataset. You are not even trying to explain why the metrics increase with experience. Just "I'm right". Briliant!

4d. Let's actually look at the data. If you correlate the performance vs. the experience you a medium correlation of 38,5 with a 97,5% conf. level. Given the dataset is based on only 12 players that is actually VERY VERY high, so a clear indication that years of NFL experience has a very big impact on performanace.

Just want to make a point. Teams do not use PFF's player grades. They use PFF's tracking data. Snap counts. Alignment. Raw data. They do so because is saves them money to pay someone to do it for them. The grades and evaluation pieces are not used by NFL teams. NFL teams are not trusting PFF to determine pass rush win% or how hey rank amongst other players at the same position.

I don't have a dog in this debate, but I do think this specifically needs to be pointed out.

 

[kerouac9]

Just want to make a point. Teams do not use PFF's player grades. They use PFF's tracking data. Snap counts. Alignment. Raw data. They do so because is saves them money to pay someone to do it for them. The grades and evaluation pieces are not used by NFL teams. NFL teams are not trusting PFF to determine pass rush win% or how hey rank amongst other players at the same position.

I don't have a dog in this debate, but I do think this specifically needs to be pointed out.

Yes. This is 100% accurate and the main point about why few ball knowers reference PFF grades. They're marketing.

 

[BACH]

Just want to make a point. Teams do not use PFF's player grades. They use PFF's tracking data. Snap counts. Alignment. Raw data. They do so because is saves them money to pay someone to do it for them. The grades and evaluation pieces are not used by NFL teams. NFL teams are not trusting PFF to determine pass rush win% or how hey rank amongst other players at the same position.

I don't have a dog in this debate, but I do think this specifically needs to be pointed out.

I state it's part of the toolbox for every NFL team.

This is the generic datamodel that is available for media and fans. Every team build their own model based on the same datasets. PFF act as consultants for NFL teams on building the data model.

Point is, this is by far the best metrics available for people like us .

 

[BACH]

Yes. This is 100% accurate and the main point about why few ball knowers reference PFF grades. They're marketing.

Well... I'm a SVP in IT and do not pretend to be working in a front office.

Question is, do you pretend to be that from your mom's basement? And what makes you think you have the knowledge to disqualify it without offering an alternative.

 

[Chopper0080]

I state it's part of the toolbox for every NFL team.

This is the generic datamodel that is available for media and fans. Every team build their own model based on the same datasets. PFF act as consultants for NFL teams on building the data model.

Point is, this is by far the best metrics available for people like us .

Data is the best metrics for fans.
Going off PFF grades as an accurate assessment is silly. They had Josh Jones as a 1st round graded player. I don’t discount everything PFF because it is PFF, but it should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[BACH]

Data is the best metrics for fans.
Going off PFF grades as an accurate assessment is silly. They had Josh Jones as a 1st round graded player. I don’t discount everything PFF because it is PFF, but it should be taken with a grain of salt.

I never said it was the 100% foolproof. Like all statistics it's like a bikini - usually showing most but often hiding the most important.

I'm saying it's the best metrics available for us fans. And it's even more silly to disregard it completely.

FYI. PFF NFL performance is not the same as draft analysis.