Cardinals sign CB Daryl Worley and OL Marcus Henry

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They think they do. I think they do.

Alford is better than Kirkpatrick if he's healthy. Butler has been better than P2 the last 2 years.

Fans have been falsely reassured by P2s past rep for years. He hasn't been good since 2018. Now he's gone some fans are stressing about losing him, but we lost him years ago.

I don’t know how anyone can honestly state anything about Alford, much less definitively, considering he hasn’t played a down in two years, is on the wrong side of 30, and had a poor season the year before we signed him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Alford was one of the worst CBs in the league the year we signed him. Then missed two entire seasons and is now 33 years old. At this point, counting on him to be as good (or bad) as Kirkpatrick is based on nothing.

none of that has anything to do with Peterson sucking rocks the last couple years. He’s been overrated on this board for three years and counting and I’m glad he’s gone.

Borg

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think Marco Wilson is going to surprise some people. Hopefully for the good.

I would be surprised if you didn’t.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it’s funny how people use PFF as the be all, end all when it comes to how they rate a players signing.

I think there are a lot of posters that either (a) don’t watch a lot of NFL games outside of the cardinals, (b) if they do, they do so for entertainment purposes which means they’re not typically watching critically, and (c) few posters are sophisticated enough viewers to recognize, much less understand the nuances of, defensive or offensive sets and responsibilities. As a result something PFF gives them at least some reference point upon which to rely.

 

[juza76]

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between Alford at CB2 and the long line of scrubs we have had at CB2 for the last several years? Bethel, Williams, Markus Cooper, Kirkpatrick etc

The only difference to me is that in the past some fans were comforted by the fact we had P2 on the other side. As if P2 was 1.5 players so it didn;t matter we had 0.5 across from him. Apart from the obvious flaw in that P2 has been 0.5 of himself since 2018.

While I don't think this is a great CB room (unless the rookies surprise) I also don't think it's any worse than Kirkpatrick and P2, and people keep telling me last years defense was decent.

Indeed there is not a plan
Basically we little improved the position
They just gamble on two rookies, whom statistically have little chances to have an impact

 

[BritCard]

I don't think we can really judge what this unit will be. There are a lot of variables.

For kicks I went and had a look at how PFF ranked every secondary going into the season and how they finished post season.

They ranked Washington 28th and they finished 7th.

Giants were 27th and finished 18th.

Colts were 26th and finished 4th.

Chiefs were 23rd but finished 10th.

Bucs were 16th and finished 6th.

Lions were 14th but came 32nd.

So on and so forth.

Often what looks good or bad on paper ends up very different in action.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between Alford at CB2 and the long line of scrubs we have had at CB2 for the last several years? Bethel, Williams, Markus Cooper, Kirkpatrick etc

The only difference to me is that in the past some fans were comforted by the fact we had P2 on the other side. As if P2 was 1.5 players so it didn;t matter we had 0.5 across from him. Apart from the obvious flaw in that P2 has been 0.5 of himself since 2018.

While I don't think this is a great CB room (unless the rookies surprise) I also don't think it's any worse than Kirkpatrick and P2, and people keep telling me last years defense was decent.

I think the CB room is about the same, though Butler might be an upgrade over Peterson.

The depth is better with Worley and Dennard. Plus the Cardinals added two prospects to groom who aren't castoffs or UDFAs. Marco Wilson legitimately is a pretty great athlete and Gowan has good tape and measureables.

 

[DVontel]

I think the CB room is about the same, though Butler might be an upgrade over Peterson.

The depth is better with Worley and Dennard. Plus the Cardinals added two prospects to groom who aren't castoffs or UDFAs. Marco Wilson legitimately is a pretty great athlete and Gowan has good tape and measureables.

I don’t think the depth is better at all(might be a downgrade if anything), but I do think Butler is a bit better than Peterson.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don’t think the depth is better at all(might be a downgrade if anything), but I do think Butler is a bit better than Peterson.

The fact that Kevin Peterson won't see the field is improved depth.

 

[DVontel]

The fact that Kevin Peterson won't see the field is improved depth.

Peterson is better than Worley & is a wash to Dennard lol.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Peterson is better than Worley & is a wash to Dennard lol.

Kirkpatrick is a All-Star compared to Worley... let's hope Worely never starts on the outside

 

[BritCard]

I think the CB room is about the same, though Butler might be an upgrade over Peterson.

The depth is better with Worley and Dennard. Plus the Cardinals added two prospects to groom who aren't castoffs or UDFAs. Marco Wilson legitimately is a pretty great athlete and Gowan has good tape and measureables.

That's how I see it. It's not great, but it's not worse than it was last year, and from a depth perspective I think it's far better. Remember we were getting snaps from Bausby, Whittaker and Joseph last year.

 

[BritCard]

I don’t think the depth is better at all(might be a downgrade if anything), but I do think Butler is a bit better than Peterson.

Taking away the starters how is Dennard, Worley, Wilson and Gowan not better than Whittaker, Bausby, Joseph and Peterson? They are the 4 other CB's that took snaps for us last year.

The current group is hands down better. Worley has 66 games with 54 career starts. Dennard has 85 games and 30 starts. Wilson and Gowan have a tonne of potential.

Bausby has been a career PS scrub with 6 starts in 5 years. Kevin Peterson has 5 career starts. Jace Whittaker was a 25 year old rookie that barely made it off the PS for a total of 48 snaps. Johnathan Joseph played 48 snaps as a corpse before retiring.

The current group is hands down better depth. You don't get 85 games and 30 starts and 66 games with 54 starts without having far more talent than any of the scrubs we had last year.

 

[BritCard]

Peterson is better than Worley & is a wash to Dennard lol.

Come on mate you are better than this.

Tell me how a guy with 5 career starts since 2016 is better than 2 guys with nearly 100 career starts and nearly 150 games in the NFL.

No matter what you think of Dennard and Worley you don't get that many starts in the NFL without talent and the NFL don't let guys they think are talented sit on the sideline as CB #5 playing a handful of snaps.

Neither Dennard or Worley are top class, but they are leagues ahead of Kevin Peterson.

 

[DVontel]

Taking away the starters how is Dennard, Worley, Wilson and Gowan not better than Whittaker, Bausby, Joseph and Peterson? They are the 4 other CB's that took snaps for us last year.

The current group is hands down better. Worley has 66 games with 54 career starts. Dennard has 85 games and 30 starts. Wilson and Gowan have a tonne of potential.

Bausby has been a career PS scrub with 6 starts in 5 years. Kevin Peterson has 5 career starts. Jace Whittaker was a 25 year old rookie that barely made it off the PS for a total of 48 snaps. Johnathan Joseph played 48 snaps as a corpse before retiring.

The current group is hands down better depth. You don't get 85 games and 30 starts and 66 games with 54 starts without having far more talent than any of the scrubs we had last year.

Worley has been on 7 different stints in 5 seasons. He didn’t even last more than 2 seasons with the team that drafted him. Stop acting like he isn’t just getting by on draft status alone. I don’t give a single damn how many more starts he has had in career. He is known to cause his defense more harm than anything.
You would have a point if we drafted rookie CBs in the first two rounds, not one where he underachieved relative to his recruitment hype & the other going in the 6th round.

It’s funny though. We’re arguing about scrub/unproven CBs when this could’ve been avoided going Newsome in the 1st.

 

[BritCard]

Worley has been on 7 different stints in 5 seasons. He didn’t even last more than 2 seasons with the team that drafted him. Stop acting like he isn’t just getting by on draft status alone. I don’t give a single damn how many more starts he has had in career. He is known to cause his defense more harm than anything.
You would have a point if we drafted rookie CBs in the first two rounds, not one where he underachieved relative to his recruitment hype & the other going in the 6th round.

It’s funny though. We’re arguing about scrub/unproven CBs when this could’ve been avoided going Newsome in the 1st.

What Worley and Dennard are or aren't in the grand scheme of the NFL doesn't come into it.

What they 100% are is light years better than Peterson, Bausby, Whittaker and the rotting remains of Joseph. That's just a fact born out by any available metric.

Saying Peterson is better than Worley and a wash with Dennard is nuts. Peterson has 417 career snaps since 2016.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Peterson is better than Worley & is a wash to Dennard lol.

Thats just patently false. Worley has been bad but he has had stretches of ok play. And Dennard has been a steady vet for years.

Peterson has never been good.

 

[DVontel]

What Worley and Dennard are or aren't in the grand scheme of the NFL doesn't come into it.

What they 100% are is light years better than Peterson, Bausby, Whittaker and the rotting remains of Joseph. That's just a fact born out by any available metric.

Saying Peterson is better than Worley and a wash with Dennard is nuts. Peterson has 417 career snaps since 2016.

Thats just patently false. Worley has been bad but he has had stretches of ok play. And Dennard has been a steady vet for years.

Peterson has never been good.

Alright, I’m done wasting time how talking about how atrocious the CB depth is this year compared how atrocious the CB depth was last year. You guys can have it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Alright, I’m done wasting time how talking about how atrocious the CB depth is this year compared how atrocious the CB depth was last year. You guys can have it.

Heh ok brother.

My stance is that CB will be a problem, but at least it isn't filled with Jace Whitakers and Kevin Petersons. The fact that some are counting on ANYTHING from Alford is troubling. On defense, I expect CB will be a problem all year, but at least it's filled with NFL guys and not guys that should be working at insurance companies.

 

[Krangodnzr]

What Worley and Dennard are or aren't in the grand scheme of the NFL doesn't come into it.

What they 100% are is light years better than Peterson, Bausby, Whittaker and the rotting remains of Joseph. That's just a fact born out by any available metric.

Saying Peterson is better than Worley and a wash with Dennard is nuts. Peterson has 417 career snaps since 2016.

Dennard is undeniably better than Kevin Peterson. Now, from looking at counting stats, he isn't better than Kirkpatrick, but my eyeballs told me that Kirkpatrick wasn't very good last season.

I think at worse, the starters aren't quite as good overall, but the depth IS better. Over a 17 game season, sometimes depth wins out. Look at what happened with the safety position last year where depth was tested and the end of the roster guys were so bad, the Cardinals were hemorrhaging yards until better players got healthy.

 

[BritCard]

Dennard is undeniably better than Kevin Peterson. Now, from looking at counting stats, he isn't better than Kirkpatrick, but my eyeballs told me that Kirkpatrick wasn't very good last season.

I think at worse, the starters aren't quite as good overall, but the depth IS better. Over a 17 game season, sometimes depth wins out. Look at what happened with the safety position last year where depth was tested and the end of the roster guys were so bad, the Cardinals were hemorrhaging yards until better players got healthy.

I don't think there's any doubt depth is better. Both Worley and Dennard started last season as starting CB's for their respective teams.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Due to the rules which favor the offense and the WRs and QBs, I think the secondary's quality is less important than the pass rush element. I have no problem with the Cards investing heavy from this point on the front seven (unless there's a change on how this new style of Pro ball is played), and yeah I think we have a secondary now which is petering on the label of sufficient voiding any injuries... Alford says "hello" but I honestly believe if healthy he's our best CB and even more so than Butler and why the Cards have no issue at a minimal risk to their monies giving him a shot lol

 

[BritCard]

Due to the rules which favor the offense and the WRs and QBs, I think the secondary's quality is less important than the pass rush element. I have no problem with the Cards investing heavy from this point on the front seven (unless there's a change on how this new style of Pro ball is played), and yeah I think we have a secondary now which is petering on the label of sufficient voiding any injuries... Alford says "hello" but I honestly believe if healthy he's our best CB and even more so than Butler and why the Cards have no issue at a minimal risk to their monies giving him a shot lol

Absolutely. We had a top 10 air yards defense last year and #1 on the road. With Kirkpatrick, Murphy and the corpse of P2.

Frankly, if you can achieve that with that trio then you achieve it with anyone.

 

[DVontel]

Due to the rules which favor the offense and the WRs and QBs, I think the secondary's quality is less important than the pass rush element. I have no problem with the Cards investing heavy from this point on the front seven (unless there's a change on how this new style of Pro ball is played), and yeah I think we have a secondary now which is petering on the label of sufficient voiding any injuries... Alford says "hello" but I honestly believe if healthy he's our best CB and even more so than Butler and why the Cards have no issue at a minimal risk to their monies giving him a shot lol

This doesn’t mean just throw out garbage like we’re about to do in the 2nd year in a row, lol. A pass rush is not going to get home all the time, especially with the old ones with injury concerns that we have.

 

[BritCard]

This doesn’t mean just throw out garbage like we’re about to do in the 2nd year in a row, lol. A pass rush is not going to get home all the time, especially with the old ones with injury concerns that we have.

That garbage we threw out last year was 10th in passing yards allowed. 1st in passing yards allowed on the road.

13th in completion percentage allowed. 8th in passing yards allowed per attempt and per completion.

If we did that with garbage (we did) I'm not too concerned about if we can do the same with at least the same level of DB play and an improved pass rush.