Cards cuts

[Russ Smith]

That old football saying that you are your record is my belief.

The Cardinals DID have a positive point differential but that was all accrued during their 6-3 start. The collapse after that is why there is a general angst among a lot of the fan base. I think the team is somewhere in the middle....a .500 ball club that could go either way based on how the season plays out.

I'm a bigger fan of Kingsbury than most, but his game management is sub par, so you have to assume he makes a few mistakes in situational football quite often. IMO that's his biggest Achilles heel right now.

Of course what I'm saying is as bad we played against the Rams, if the refs get that call right we might have actually won the game with Streveler as the QB.

I from stats would surmise that Kliff didn't call a good game, I say that because Chris threw the ball 16 times and ran only 3. But if you look that's largely because once the Rams took the lead things changed, he couldn't just play keep away he had to try and open it up and that's where Strevelers shortcomings against an elite defense were obvious.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wesley play for KK at Texas Tech. Maybe that played into the decision to keep him over Dortch.

I know that, and I’m sure it did. Still a head scratcher.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep they literally won the title with him at QB.

He's not a great NFL QB but the idea that he sucked in Canada is just not true. The game is different there of course but he was a very good QB there.

I don't know what KK plans for him I actually think we should be using him like Taysom Hill he should be lining up at QB, RB, FB etc to keep teams guessing.

Honestly there were times last year where the RB's didn't get short yardage and I thought why in the heck don't we have Streveler in there. Go back to the SF game his first actual action he comes in cold, gets the ball on I think 4th down, the play is blown up because the C missed his block, and Streveler just lowered the boom and got the first down on a play he could have easily lost 2 yards.

he's clearly a guy that has a role in short yardage so if we're allowed to have both all 3 QB's active on game days I can see why they would.

I don’t know that I’d say he was “good.” He was a backup that seemed to perform when called upon. That said he had a game where he took 23 snaps without throwing a pass. That doesn’t sound like a lot of confidence in his passing.

... And added 726 yards and 12 TDs rushing. In 2018 as a CFL rookie he was ranked 5th in "Efficiency Rating" among CFL QBs who threw more than 100 passes with 11 passing and 10 rushing TDs vs. 5 INTs; in 2019 he threw a TD pass to help his team win the Grey Cup with a barely healed broken ankle & high ankle sprain.

So to say that "He wasn’t even good in the CFL" is not accurate.

I don't think anyone is expecting Streveler is to emerge as a starting caliber traditional NFL QB. I think everyone here agrees that if Murray is out for more than a game, McCoy will be the QB. But Streveler can play a role, make plays, and contribute from the QB position.

...dave

then you’re advocating dressing three QBs on gameday, right? Bc he’s not good enough to be backup so McCoy has to dress. But you want to use him for gadget plays so strev has to dress. But we really don’t use him for those so . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That old football saying that you are your record is my belief.

The Cardinals DID have a positive point differential but that was all accrued during their 6-3 start. The collapse after that is why there is a general angst among a lot of the fan base. I think the team is somewhere in the middle....a .500 ball club that could go either way based on how the season plays out.

I'm a bigger fan of Kingsbury than most, but his game management is sub par, so you have to assume he makes a few mistakes in situational football quite often. IMO that's his biggest Achilles heel right now.

And it’s an enormous flaw for a .500 team bc it’s the small things that keep average as average or below. Those small things go right and likely means playoffs. But it’s a weakness of kk’s.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Was he offsides or not?

I think that play has a lot to do with why the Cards haven't written Streveler off even if fans have. Because they know if called correctly that picksix doesn't count and the game might have ended differently. They COULD have won that game with Streveler as a QB, which is essentially what you ask of your backup QB in the NFL right now, can you win a game with him now and then if needed.

Man, your own admission you didn’t watch the game. While you’re right about that play, you have zero insight into how awful he looked otherwise. And it was awful. Like Stan gelbaugh awful.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course what I'm saying is as bad we played against the Rams, if the refs get that call right we might have actually won the game with Streveler as the QB.

I from stats would surmise that Kliff didn't call a good game, I say that because Chris threw the ball 16 times and ran only 3. But if you look that's largely because once the Rams took the lead things changed, he couldn't just play keep away he had to try and open it up and that's where Strevelers shortcomings against an elite defense were obvious.

He was terrible from the beginning of the game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

And it’s an enormous flaw for a .500 team bc it’s the small things that keep average as average or below. Those small things go right and likely means playoffs. But it’s a weakness of kk’s.

What I see when I see the Cardinals, is that I generally like Kingsbury's offensive scheme when thing are going well. But the way he calls plays at times is frustrating and the game management situations have be abysmal at times.

That's why I still have some hope for Kingsbury. He isn't Wilks. He isn't Dave Mac. He has had some games where he really called great overall games and his system did work.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He was terrible from the beginning of the game.

He was bad, but the Cardinals were "winning" until that pick six. After that, the momentum went all Rams.

Kingsbury obviously sees something he likes in Streveler. It might be a combination of personality and potential, but every team has a few players that are headscratchers to the fans and media because we don't see the total picture.

 

[Russ Smith]

Man, your own admission you didn’t watch the game. While you’re right about that play, you have zero insight into how awful he looked otherwise. And it was awful. Like Stan gelbaugh awful.

I get that but still take that play away and we could have won that game. Again very few NFL teams have more than one truly good QB. For an NFL team now the goal is can we win a game or two with our backup if we have to. This year I feel better than last year but we could have won that game with Streveler.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was terrible from the beginning of the game.

not disputing that but we were ahead in the game until that missed call. They had their backup QB too but they had the best defense in the NFL and until that play we were winning.

If we won that game and everything else was the same with Streveler I strongly suspect people would be less critical of him

 

[BritCard]

He was terrible from the beginning of the game.

What gets me is the Strev fans says what a good athlete and great runner he is and in the one game he played significant time he had only 4 rushes for 15 yards...

 

[kerouac9]

We lost that game 18-7, take that play away it's 11-7. We're in FG range at the time we probably go in at halftime up 10-5. Once they made those 2 FG's in the 2nd half the whole game changes because we can't be conservative and try to run the ball with Streveler because we're down 2 scores.

We also had a FG blocked in there a very short one that had nothing to do with Streveler. He played poorly from the stats but we still could very easily have put up 13 points in that game and won if they don't miss that call.

2nd half likely plays out differently if the first half ends differently. The Cards after Murray went out went:

TD (started on STL 14 yard line)
3 and out
3 and out
Safety
3 and out (with a recovered fumble)

Really a ton of momentum there.

Your assertion that the Rams went suddenly super-conservative is also extremely wrong. John Wolford threw 38 times in that game. He was 9 for 15 for and passed for 5 first downs in the 2nd half.

Was he offsides or not?

I think that play has a lot to do with why the Cards haven't written Streveler off even if fans have. Because they know if called correctly that picksix doesn't count and the game might have ended differently. They COULD have won that game with Streveler as a QB, which is essentially what you ask of your backup QB in the NFL right now, can you win a game with him now and then if needed.

See above. Streveler was playing like Tim Tebow and the Cards had no chance. The Cards had one possession in the second half. They let Streveler air it out and passed on all 5 plays. It netted 27 yards.

We were playing a backup QB. You want your backup QB to potentially keep you in a game against real players. We lost by double-digits to John Wofford. C'mon, man.

 

[Krangodnzr]

2nd half likely plays out differently if the first half ends differently. The Cards after Murray went out went:

TD (started on STL 14 yard line)
3 and out
3 and out
Safety
3 and out (with a recovered fumble)

Really a ton of momentum there.

Your assertion that the Rams went suddenly super-conservative is also extremely wrong. John Wolford threw 38 times in that game. He was 9 for 15 for and passed for 5 first downs in the 2nd half.


See above. Streveler was playing like Tim Tebow and the Cards had no chance. The Cards had one possession in the second half. They let Streveler air it out and passed on all 5 plays. It netted 27 yards.

We were playing a backup QB. You want your backup QB to potentially keep you in a game against real players. We lost by double-digits to John Wofford. C'mon, man.

The Rams did play noticeably better after the pick six though. I do agree with the overall assertion that it wasn't a given that the Rams lose if the call goes differently.

Nothing I saw in that game makes me think Streveler should play another game and I'm thankful that the Cardinals signed McCoy. McCoy as uneven to bad as he has been is significantly better than Streveler.

 

[kerouac9]

The Rams did play noticeably better after the pick six though. I do agree with the overall assertion that it wasn't a given that the Rams lose if the call goes differently.

Nothing I saw in that game makes me think Streveler should play another game and I'm thankful that the Cardinals signed McCoy. McCoy as uneven to bad as he has been is significantly better than Streveler.

I guess. The Cards were up by 2 points before the INT because they had to get 14 yards to score a TD. The fake timeline game can go both ways: the Rams had first and goal on the Cards 1 at the end of the 1st quarter that ended with a field goal because the Rams had consecutive false starts on second down. If that doesn't happen the game's tied 7-7 before the fateful turnover.

This is why sorting through the multiverse is a dumb exercise that doesn't tell you anything.

There's no question that McCoy is better than Streveler, but that just tells you that Streveler is probably closer to Max Hall and Ryan Lindley levels of bad instead. Streveler is the ceiling of Logan Thomas as QB.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What I see when I see the Cardinals, is that I generally like Kingsbury's offensive scheme when thing are going well. But the way he calls plays at times is frustrating and the game management situations have be abysmal at times.

That's why I still have some hope for Kingsbury. He isn't Wilks. He isn't Dave Mac. He has had some games where he really called great overall games and his system did work.

Man... that collapse at the end of the year was so putrid. It’s the biggest reason I have so many reservations about this team. I just don’t believe in the head coach and fear the first half of the season was pretty much a special player just going nuts before either injury or schemes caught up to him.

that and I just saw Kliff making the same little mistakes that he did the previous season.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Man... that collapse at the end of the year was so putrid. It’s the biggest reason I have so many reservations about this team. I just don’t believe in the head coach and fear the first half of the season was pretty much a special player just going nuts before either injury or schemes caught up to him.

that and I just saw Kliff making the same little mistakes that he did the previous season.

When people criticize the scheme and say receivers aren't open, I call BS on that. I saw tons of open receivers that Murray didn't hit. I think Murray hamstrings the offense a bit. Sure his running is great, but he gives at one end and takes at another. I'd rather have him be better at throwing over the middle.

 

[daves]

come on, Dave this statement has no evidence what’s to make this claim as far as the NFL is concerned. There’s literally zero evidence to back it up and in his only major time on the field he didn’t look like he belong in the league, much less the team.

And his rushing stats in Canada say nothing about him having the skills most important to the position he plays... passing the ball. That’s his primary job as Quarterback Dave and his passing stats are horrific. He was an on again off again backup in a B Football League. When you’re not even a bonafide starter in the CFL, its safe to say you suck as a QB.

also, the talent level and speed in the CFL is nowhere near what it is in the NFL which massively calls into question whether his rushing ability would transfer to the NFL. And as of yet, we’ve still yet to see any evidence there as well.

You've moved the goal posts. My first post was in response to your statement that, "He wasn't even good in the CFL." Yet, he had good passing and running stats in his rookie year, and while playing on a broken ankle, helped his team win the Grey Cup in his 2nd year. It's just not true to say he "wasn't even good."

A followup post also minimized his play in the CFL, so I responded to that.

I also added that while literally no one expects him to have starting-level traditional QB ability in the NFL, I believe he can make plays from the QB position in the NFL. We shall see!

...dave

 

[daves]

then you’re advocating dressing three QBs on gameday, right? Bc he’s not good enough to be backup so McCoy has to dress. But you want to use him for gadget plays so strev has to dress. But we really don’t use him for those so . . .

Not really advocating it, but I think they could dress three, or perhaps they think Streveler has progressed enough to be able to handle closing out a game if necessary. In the event of an extended absence of Murray, I think McCoy would be tabbed to start the following game.

I don't really know what Streveler's capable of, but the potential is there for him to contribute from the QB position in short-yardage situations and perhaps others. I'd like to see more of it. If they're not ever going to use him that way, then I'm as surprised as anyone else that he's listed as the #2 QB.

...dave

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Man... that collapse at the end of the year was so putrid. It’s the biggest reason I have so many reservations about this team. I just don’t believe in the head coach and fear the first half of the season was pretty much a special player just going nuts before either injury or schemes caught up to him.

that and I just saw Kliff making the same little mistakes that he did the previous season.

+1

 

[Russ Smith]

2nd half likely plays out differently if the first half ends differently. The Cards after Murray went out went:

TD (started on STL 14 yard line)
3 and out
3 and out
Safety
3 and out (with a recovered fumble)

Really a ton of momentum there.

Your assertion that the Rams went suddenly super-conservative is also extremely wrong. John Wolford threw 38 times in that game. He was 9 for 15 for and passed for 5 first downs in the 2nd half.


See above. Streveler was playing like Tim Tebow and the Cards had no chance. The Cards had one possession in the second half. They let Streveler air it out and passed on all 5 plays. It netted 27 yards.

We were playing a backup QB. You want your backup QB to potentially keep you in a game against real players. We lost by double-digits to John Wofford. C'mon, man.

Huh? Where did I say the Rams went conservative? I said the ability for the Cardinals to be conservative with Streveler changed when the Rams made 2 FG's to go up 2 scores. Never even discussed the Rams offense.

Never said we had momentum but again take that play again at worst we go in at the half leading 7-5, make a FG it's 10-5 I think we all agree that's better than being down 12-7 on a picksix with them getting the ball to start the 2nd half?

We lost by double digits because of that one play, you can keep ignoring that and not answer the question but were the Rams offsides on that play or not? YOu know the answer is yes and the only reason that TD counted is the refs missed it.

 

[Russ Smith]

The Rams did play noticeably better after the pick six though. I do agree with the overall assertion that it wasn't a given that the Rams lose if the call goes differently.

Nothing I saw in that game makes me think Streveler should play another game and I'm thankful that the Cardinals signed McCoy. McCoy as uneven to bad as he has been is significantly better than Streveler.

Just to be clear I'm not saying we win the game if not for that call I'm saying we COULD HAVE won the game. That call effectively changed the game.

I have no idea why KK didn't run the ball more with Streveler in that game but my guess is if we had gone in at the half up 7-5 or 10-5 we would have run the ball more when Streveler was in.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess. The Cards were up by 2 points before the INT because they had to get 14 yards to score a TD. The fake timeline game can go both ways: the Rams had first and goal on the Cards 1 at the end of the 1st quarter that ended with a field goal because the Rams had consecutive false starts on second down. If that doesn't happen the game's tied 7-7 before the fateful turnover.

This is why sorting through the multiverse is a dumb exercise that doesn't tell you anything.

There's no question that McCoy is better than Streveler, but that just tells you that Streveler is probably closer to Max Hall and Ryan Lindley levels of bad instead. Streveler is the ceiling of Logan Thomas as QB.

Oh come on absolutely clear as day offsides call that causes the play to a freebie is missed, it becomes a picksix and you want to say ok if they didn't have 2 false starts things go different? I am talking about one play where everyone who saw that game can see the guy was offsides but the refs missed it.

Nobody is saying Streveler is Roger Staubach I'm saying we might easily have won that game if they don't blow that call and the perception of Streveler would IMO be entirely different if we won that game.

 

[kerouac9]

Oh come on absolutely clear as day offsides call that causes the play to a freebie is missed, it becomes a picksix and you want to say ok if they didn't have 2 false starts things go different? I am talking about one play where everyone who saw that game can see the guy was offsides but the refs missed it.

Nobody is saying Streveler is Roger Staubach I'm saying we might easily have won that game if they don't blow that call and the perception of Streveler would IMO be entirely different if we won that game.

LOL. Taking a two point lead into halftime on the road is a pretty far cry from “we might easily have won that game.” Get a grip.

 

[Russ Smith]

LOL. Taking a two point lead into halftime on the road is a pretty far cry from “we might easily have won that game.” Get a grip.

2 point lead or 5 point lead vs being down is a huge difference playing a backup QB. The rams scored 6 points in the entire 2nd half, it's not like they blew the game wide open or something.

We could easily have won that game if not for that call. We would have lost the next week anyways but the perception of him is largely based on losing that game, and that play, which shouldn't have counted.

IMO.

 

[CardNots]

Nobody is saying Streveler is Roger Staubach

uh, why beat up on Roger?