Cards Drafts since 2003 among the leagues best?

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

1. The Cardinals had a GREAT draft. You could argue they hit a home run on 4 of their first five picks, and a grand slam on their #1 (Fitz.) Of course, they were picking high, and you would expect the #3 overall pick to be an impact player 5 years in. By all accounts, though, this would probably measure up quite well against ANY NFL team's draft over the last five years.
2. The Rams seem to have done themselves a disservice by trading their 2nd, 4th, and 6th round picks (Chillar and Smoker were both compensatory selections.) They made a great first-round pick (Jackson) but by trading away a couple of picks, their 5th selection (201 overall) was a whopping 66 picks lower than the Cardinals (135).

Taking these two things into consideration, I'm wondering if your readers think there's any correlation between the 2004 draft and the Cardinals Super Bowl appearance (as well as the Rams 2-14 record.) Some bonus tidbits from the 2004 draft: The 49'ers drafted the only 6th round player to make a Pro Bowl (Andy Lee, P, Pitt.) Also, Pro Bowlers Wes Welker, Willie Parker, Jason Peters, and Mat McBriar were all undrafted.


Mike Sando: Good work, Rick. I was playing around with some related information over the weekend. I went through the Pro Football Reference database and collected 2008 starting information for every player in the league. I then singled out draft choices still playing for their original teams, adding up how many starts they made for their teams in 2008. The totals would not reflect players released since last season, but I thought that was a minor issue and something I could work around with a little more time.

The findings backed up what you are saying. Members of the Cardinals' 2004 draft class still with the team combined for 68 regular-season starts last season. The rest of the league averaged 16 combined starts for members of their 2004 draft classes still with their original teams. San Diego ranked second with 45. The Rams had zero.

Members of the Cardinals' 2003 draft class still with the team combined for 69 regular-season starts last season, another league high. The rest of the league averaged 15 combined starts.

In fact, the Cardinals' 2003 through 2008 draft classes averaged a league-high 42 regular-season starts for their original teams last season (again, not counting any players released since last season). The rest of the league averaged a combined 25 starts last season.

This is something I'll break out in greater detail once I have time to do some more tinkering.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest

 

[82CardsGrad]

Very, very, very impressive... Gotta believe that with Whiz in town, these numbers are only going to get better - if possible!

Wow!

 

[bg7brd]

Maybe Rod Graves isn't the complete moron many on here claim him to be.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

More then anything 2004 paved the way for the Super Bowl run.

This is where Denny didn't get enough credit. Wiz has taken these young colts and molded them into thoroughbreds but Denny was the one who saw the early potential in alot of these guys.

Looks like Wiz has continued that trend and deserves a mulligan for 2007 - and that wasn't a bad draft at all.

If you can get 2-3 starters out of a draft for three or even two years in a row you are really setting yourself up to be consistently successful.

The next step I would like to see us take as an organization is get a little more creative with draft day trades like Philly and NE do.

But continuing to stand pat and draft studs works for me too.

 

[Cody]

Maybe Rod Graves isn't the complete moron many on here claim him to be.

LOL I still believe Graves is a few eggs short of a dozen

 

[Shzm13]

Maybe Rod Graves isn't the complete moron many on here claim him to be.

No, hes still an idiot.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Maybe Rod Graves isn't the complete moron many on here claim him to be.

Ahh how quick we are to place blame/pass out praise to good ol' Rod.

I wouldn't give him too much credit other then saying he knows when to let the football people make football decisions. And yes I say that knowing full well his title and outline of his role in the organization.

IMO Rod is what he is. The figurehead or "face" of the franchise. He is classy, has a nice smile, and has a firm handshake. Thats' about the extent of his virtues. And for that he is handsomely compensated. Plus he came from the other original franchise so that explains Bill Sr's hard-- for him.

But in terms of personnel or contract negotiations I haven't seen one thing chronicled or detailed on how he was the reasoning behind any success we have had in that space.

Didn't he want Ron Rivera for HC? Lets all just thank god that Mike and the rest of the FO value his input as much as I like Fresca.

Which is not at all

 

[TJ]

Denny was more responsible for that great 2004 draft class than Rod. 2003 and before, our drafts were laughable.

One things for sure was that even though Denny's coaching knack was long gone when he was here, he still had a great knack for talent. Fortunately, we have Whiz to take that talent somewhere.

 

[bg7brd]

Ahh how quick we are to place blame/pass out praise to good ol' Rod.

I wouldn't give him too much credit other then saying he knows when to let the football people make football decisions. And yes I say that knowing full well his title and outline of his role in the organization.

IMO Rod is what he is. The figurehead or "face" of the franchise. He is classy, has a nice smile, and has a firm handshake. Thats' about the extent of his virtues. And for that he is handsomely compensated. Plus he came from the other original franchise so that explains Bill Sr's hard-- for him.

But in terms of personnel or contract negotiations I haven't seen one thing chronicled or detailed on how he was the reasoning behind any success we have had in that space.

Didn't he want Ron Rivera for HC? Lets all just thank god that Mike and the rest of the FO value his input as much as I like Fresca.

Which is not at all

So what you're saying is that the success this franchise has had since his hiring has little or nothing to do with him? I don't think that's fair. I'm not a Graves lover but the reality is things started to turn around when he took over. I'm not saying it was all him but I do think he deserves some of the credit. He was smart enough to hire Green and Whiz and somehow we've ended up with a have a first rate scouting system.

 

[bg7brd]

Denny was more responsible for that great 2004 draft class than Rod. 2003 and before, our drafts were laughable.

One things for sure was that even though Denny's coaching knack was long gone when he was here, he still had a great knack for talent. Fortunately, we have Whiz to take that talent somewhere.

Weren't Q, Hayes, and Reggie Wells drafted in 2003?

 

[TJ]

Wasn't Q drafted in 2003?

Touche on 03 cause we did get Wells, Q and Hayes, but the fact that we missed miserably in the first round by passing up Suggs to get two first round busts turns it from an "A" to a "C" in my book.

 

[bg7brd]

Touche on 03 cause we did get Wells, Q and Hayes, but the fact that we missed miserably in the first round by passing up Suggs to get two first round busts turns it from an "A" to a "C" in my book.

I would rather have Suggs over Johnson and Pace but they are still playing in the league so I wouldn't call them busts.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

So what you're saying is that the success this franchise has had since his hiring has little or nothing to do with him? I don't think that's fair. I'm not a Graves lover but the reality is things started to turn around when he took over. I'm not saying it was all him but I do think he deserves some of the credit. He was smart enough to hire Green and Whiz and somehow we've ended up with a have a first rate scouting system.

I think its hard to tell what role is any Graves played in our relative success but lets say this.

He hasn't really been all that great at extensions/negotiating. See Wilson, Dansby, Boldin, etc.

He wasn't really at the forefront of the UOP campaign.

I know he has a pro personnel background and understanding but I haven't seen it as anything more then a title. The Bears drafted terribly under him. IIRC he was the main voice one who pulled off the BJ/Pace tragedy. I guess he gets credit for Boldin there but he passed on him twice that same day so I cant give him too much credit.

IIRC he was here for all the lean years of Tobin and McGinnis. Those drafts were terrible. Then Denny came in and is reputed as a personnel guru. All of a sudden are drafts are better. Coincidence? If you ask me the drafting actually started doing well not just with Denny but with Kiem.

Now the coaching is better because of Wiz. And all indications are he and the scouts make up the drafting constituency. And he wanted a DIFFERENT coach.

So I am not sure what exactly you want to give him credit for? Some people like to bash him. I don't think he really has done anything TERRIBLY wrong. But I certainly am not giving him credit for the things that have gone right just to do it because he happened to be there smiling like a doofus in the photo ops.

Give me some kind of links or reports around Graves having the say in these type of things and you'll get me to agree he is anything more then a puppet.

That cuts both ways.

Its not that I think he is horrible or to blame for all our problems. To me he is just there. Like a wasted roster spot.

 

[TJ]

I would rather have Suggs over Johnson and Pace but they are still playing in the league so I wouldn't call them busts.

Certainly up for debate. Pace really played like ass until his last year with us, and BJ never manifested into the #1 receiver we needed.

Unequivocally, Suggs would have had a much better impact than both players combined.

 

[bg7brd]

I think its hard to tell what role is any Graves played in our relative success but lets say this.

He hasn't really been all that great at extensions/negotiating. See Wilson, Dansby, Boldin, etc.

He wasn't really at the forefront of the UOP campaign.

I know he has a pro personnel background and understanding but I haven't seen it as anything more then a title. The Bears drafted terribly under him. IIRC he was the main voice one who pulled off the BJ/Pace tragedy. I guess he gets credit for Boldin there but he passed on him twice that same day so I cant give him too much credit.

IIRC he was here for all the lean years of Tobin and McGinnis. Those drafts were terrible. Then Denny came in and is reputed as a personnel guru. All of a sudden are drafts are better. Coincidence? If you ask me the drafting actually started doing well not just with Denny but with Kiem.

Now the coaching is better because of Wiz. And all indications are he and the scouts make up the drafting constituency. And he wanted a DIFFERENT coach.

So I am not sure what exactly you want to give him credit for? Some people like to bash him. I don't think he really has done anything TERRIBLY wrong. But I certainly am not giving him credit for the things that have gone right just to do it because he happened to be there smiling like a doofus in the photo ops.

Give me some kind of links or reports around Graves having the say in these type of things and you'll get me to agree he is anything more then a puppet.

That cuts both ways.

Its not that I think he is horrible or to blame for all our problems. To me he is just there. Like a wasted roster spot.

Having the title GM should be an indication he had a hand in things? I just think it's a bit unfair that the majority blame Graves for everything bad and he gets no credit for anything good. It's even hard for you to give him credit for drafting Q

 

[bg7brd]

Certainly up for debate. Pace really played like ass until his last year with us, and BJ never manifested into the #1 receiver we needed.

Unequivocally, Suggs would have had a much better impact than both players combined.

I completely agree that Suggs was the better pick but I understand the thought process. The Cards had a pitiful team and needed lots of talent so trading back and getting more picks was understandable.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Having the title GM should be an indication he had a hand in things? I just think it's a bit unfair that the majority blame Graves for everything bad and he gets no credit for anything good. It's even hard for you to give him credit for drafting Q

Thats the thing. I don't blame him for all the problems with the team all these years. IMO that started at the top. So in that vain I don't really give him credit now that things are good either.

It's like BJ Armstrong on the Bulls in the 90's. Sure he was the starting PG - and in theory that should be a player of vital importance on a championship team- but I wouldn't even list him as one of the reasons the Bulls had a threepeat. Again he is just there and doing his best getting out of the way of the people who KNOW what they are doing.

I don't know if that analogy worked but I am going to force it dammit.

I did wish we had a stronger leader and personnel/negotiation guy in that role a couple years back.

But now I have so much confidence in Wiz and his ability to build the program that I am actually happier that we have the equivalent of a "yes" man in the GM role who blindly supports what the HC wants.

That is one of the underlying themes of why getting to the SB last year was so important. Wiz gained the iron fist after taking us to the Super Bowl. Thats why he could get rid of Clancy. Thats why he could take a harder line on certain players and have the ultimate say in who gets drafted.

Thing is I am perfectly happy with that.

 

[PDXChris]

LOL I still believe Graves is a few eggs short of a dozen

But do you know how much a dozen is?