Card's Fitzgerald future

[Buckybird]

I chose not to respond to that post... clearly, the tool man has been spending too much time in the tool shed...

 

[desertdawg]

I chose not to respond to that post... clearly, the tool man has been spending too much time in the tool shed...

With out enough ventilation.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Fitz is still a top ten if not top 5 WR but he is no diva and took what this offense could muster behind our line and a new offense and QB... his style of receiving makes him good to go for another three years in my opinion

 

[Shane]

Fitz is still a top ten if not top 5 WR but he is no diva and took what this offense could muster behind our line and a new offense and QB... his style of receiving makes him good to go for another three years in my opinion

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[desertdawg]

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Are you saying jetstream is old? That's Ageist man!

 

[Totally_Red]

Fitz is still a top ten if not top 5 WR but he is no diva and took what this offense could muster behind our line and a new offense and QB... his style of receiving makes him good to go for another three years in my opinion

Yup! A big part of the reason his production has dropped in recent years besides the obvious falloff in quarterback play, has been the lack of complimentary receivers like Anquan Boldin and Steve Breaston IMO. That's what Kurt Warner has said, and I tend to agree. When opponents can scheme Larry away with blanket coverage, they do so.

The emergence of Michael Floyd, the addition of Ted Ginn Junior and upgrading the offensive line should make it more difficult to blanket Larry with 2-3 defenders going forward IMO, but time will tell.

 

[82CardsGrad]

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In 2014, if Fitz finishes in the Top 10 of NFL WR's in: Yards, or Receptions, Shane will agree to..... ?

 

[Shane]

In 2014, if Fitz finishes in the Top 10 of NFL WR's in: Yards, or Receptions, Shane will agree to..... ?

Fitz 2012

Rank in yards in 2012? 41st.

Rank in TDs? 57th

Rank in Receptions? 26th

Rank YPC? 187th


Fitz 2013

Rank in Yards? 19th

Rank in TDs? 10th

Rank in receptions? 19th

Rank YPC? 167th

If you guys want to hold onto the belief that Fitz is a bonafide top 10 WR and apparently to a few a top 5 WR? More power to you! I'll go with what my eyes and the actual performance on the field show me. Yet he finally had a decent QB and better more seasoned teammates catching the ball and still couldn't equal his 2011 numbers where his QBs were atrocious and he had no Michael Floyd or a speedster to relieve pressure? He's not getting any younger. I would say his ceiling is much like last year top 20 maybe. Much more? I doubt it.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Are you saying jetstream is old? That's Ageist man!

Nah, that is just Shane showing his compassion for me and my opinion since I suffer from asthma lol

 

[82CardsGrad]

Fitz 2012

Rank in yards in 2012? 41st.

Rank in TDs? 57th

Rank in Receptions? 26th

Rank YPC? 187th


Fitz 2013

Rank in Yards? 19th

Rank in TDs? 10th

Rank in receptions? 19th

Rank YPC? 167th

If you guys want to hold onto the belief that Fitz is a bonafide top 10 WR and apparently to a few a top 5 WR? More power to you! I'll go with what my eyes and the actual performance on the field show me. Yet he finally had a decent QB and better more seasoned teammates catching the ball and still couldn't equal his 2011 numbers where his QBs were atrocious and he had no Michael Floyd or a speedster to relieve pressure? He's not getting any younger. I would say his ceiling is much like last year top 20 maybe. Much more? I doubt it.

As I mentioned earlier, 2012 & 2013 were down years for Fitz (with very good reasons for being so)... So no, I am not at all saying that he's been a Top 10 WR over the past two seasons. I do believe he can be again and I really like his chances for getting there in 2014.

 

[desertdawg]

Fitz 2012

Rank in yards in 2012? 41st.

Rank in TDs? 57th

Rank in Receptions? 26th

Rank YPC? 187th


Fitz 2013

Rank in Yards? 19th

Rank in TDs? 10th

Rank in receptions? 19th

Rank YPC? 167th

If you guys want to hold onto the belief that Fitz is a bonafide top 10 WR and apparently to a few a top 5 WR? More power to you! I'll go with what my eyes and the actual performance on the field show me. Yet he finally had a decent QB and better more seasoned teammates catching the ball and still couldn't equal his 2011 numbers where his QBs were atrocious and he had no Michael Floyd or a speedster to relieve pressure? He's not getting any younger. I would say his ceiling is much like last year top 20 maybe. Much more? I doubt it.

I smell an avatar bet brewing.

 

[kerouac9]

If you guys want to hold onto the belief that Fitz is a bonafide top 10 WR and apparently to a few a top 5 WR? More power to you! I'll go with what my eyes and the actual performance on the field show me. Yet he finally had a decent QB and better more seasoned teammates catching the ball and still couldn't equal his 2011 numbers where his QBs were atrocious and he had no Michael Floyd or a speedster to relieve pressure? He's not getting any younger. I would say his ceiling is much like last year top 20 maybe. Much more? I doubt it.

Here's the thing: Fitz doesn't just have to put up numbers to be a Top 10 WR (and I'd love to see the examples of guys not Randy Moss who disappeared for two years as a top WR in his late 20s and then came back for another dominant cycle); he also has to eclipse some really, really good top WRs, who may or may not show up on a stat ranking.

Just off the top of my head, these are #1 WRs whom I think are clearly better than Fitz the last two years:

Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Demaryius Thomas, Josh Gordon, Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson.

Those are six guys that I think are all significantly younger than Fitz, likely to get better, and sholudn't be quibbled with as being superior options to Fitzgerald.

After that you have a group of up-and-comers and warty veterans. Some of these guys are going to decline or have 2013 be their career years; others will continue to improve:

Antonio Brown, Alshon Jeffrey, Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, DeSean Jackson, Torrey Smith, T.Y. Hilton.

Those are 13 guys that were clearly better than Fitz in 2013 and many, if not most, of them will be better than him in 2014.

What's the argument that Fitz is somehow going to double his production in 2014 from the previous two years? Is comfort in the system really going to double his production? Carson Palmer was either a terrible QB in 2013 who depressed Fitz's potential, or the guy that's going to lead Fitz back to glory in 2014. He can't really be both.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Here's the thing: Fitz doesn't just have to put up numbers to be a Top 10 WR (and I'd love to see the examples of guys not Randy Moss who disappeared for two years as a top WR in his late 20s and then came back for another dominant cycle); he also has to eclipse some really, really good top WRs, who may or may not show up on a stat ranking.

Just off the top of my head, these are #1 WRs whom I think are clearly better than Fitz the last two years:

Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Demaryius Thomas, Josh Gordon, Dez Bryant, Vincent Jackson.

Those are six guys that I think are all significantly younger than Fitz, likely to get better, and sholudn't be quibbled with as being superior options to Fitzgerald.

After that you have a group of up-and-comers and warty veterans. Some of these guys are going to decline or have 2013 be their career years; others will continue to improve:

Antonio Brown, Alshon Jeffrey, Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, DeSean Jackson, Torrey Smith, T.Y. Hilton.

Those are 13 guys that were clearly better than Fitz in 2013 and many, if not most, of them will be better than him in 2014.

What's the argument that Fitz is somehow going to double his production in 2014 from the previous two years? Is comfort in the system really going to double his production? Carson Palmer was either a terrible QB in 2013 who depressed Fitz's potential, or the guy that's going to lead Fitz back to glory in 2014. He can't really be both.

Fitz won't have to "double" his production to be a Top 10 WR in 2014... Really dude??
In 2013, he went: 82 catches, 954 yards and 10 TD's. With an entire new coaching staff and system, and a new QB...and while playing most of 2013 hurt and less than 100%
In 2013, the #10 position in catches stood at 89. In yards it was 1,314 and amazingly, Fitz was at #10 in TD's...
Fitz will be 31 when the 2014 season begins... Is it really that much of a stretch to see Fitz get close to, if not above 100 receptions, 1,400 yards and more than 10 TD receptions?? C'mon man...

 

[Shane]

100 receptions, 1,400 yards and more than 10 TD receptions?? C'mon man...

Those numbers are very much a stretch. Your talking about 23-28 YOA Fitz with those numbers.

You will NEVER see him over 14 YPC again in his career I'm betting.

Its nice to wanna hang on but come on man? Heck it wouldn't shock me if Floyd is our #1 from this point on in production on the field and Fitz in name recognition only.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Those numbers are very much a stretch. Your talking about 23-28 YOA Fitz with those numbers.

You will NEVER see him over 14 YPC again in his career I'm betting.

Its nice to wanna hang on but come on man? Heck it wouldn't shock me if Floyd is our #1 from this point on in production on the field and Fitz in name recognition only.

I'm thinking you are seriously off-base... In 2011, Fitz averaged 17.6 YPC... That stat means squat to me as it is influenced by so many factors - NOT just the ability of the WR.
So yes, I can see - easily - Fitz averaging 14 YPC in 2014. And if he is somehow able to remain healthy throughout the year, I can see him doing it again in 2015. After that, I can see him on the slow decline and becoming a solid #2 for the balance of his career...

 

[Totally_Red]

slowed by hamstring injury

Part of the reason for Larry's mediocre 2013 season was the hamstring injury suffered early on.

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and...ons-Game/cf2e7edb-2512-477c-a19b-8c7ad4767202

Larry Fitzgerald was playing and there wasn’t any doubt of that. How much he had to give was the question.

A national report before the game said the Cardinals wide receiver was “80 percent” after hurting his left hamstring, but when that was brought up to Fitzgerald after Sunday’s 25-21 win over Detroit, he smiled and said “I would’ve been good if I was 80 percent.”

Fitzgerald wasn’t providing any of his own percentage analysis, but after making just two catches for 33 yards and drawing a pass interference penalty, he came out of the game for good early in the fourth quarter knowing he had nothing left.

“It’s tough to play my position and not be able to run and separate,” Fitzgerald said. “But I knew I needed to go out there and fight with my guys.”



He didn't seem right until after the bye week.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/20131106arizona-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-benefits-from-time-off.html.

By Bob McManamanazcentral sportsWed Nov 6, 2013 8:07 PM

A week off appears to have done just what Larry Fitzgerald hoped it would – given his ailing left hamstring some quality time to heal.

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians said his star receiver is coming along well and that the hamstring is only getting better. They won’t push him too hard in practice this week, but Fitzgerald should be fully ready to go Sunday against the visiting Houston Texans.

“It was fine on Monday,” Arians said Wednesday. “I still don’t know if it’s 100 percent, but I’m looking forward to seeing him today after another day’s rest.”

Quarterback Carson Palmer said the 10-day layoff for Fitzgerald should rejuvenate him and have him ready for the second half of the season.

“Just talking to him, he said he’s back and he’s feeling great,” Palmer said.


The point is the Cardinal offense was much more prolific in the second half of the season though Fitzgerald wasn't always its focal point. Would it have been as productive without him?

 

[kerouac9]

Fitz won't have to "double" his production to be a Top 10 WR in 2014... Really dude??
In 2013, he went: 82 catches, 954 yards and 10 TD's. With an entire new coaching staff and system, and a new QB...and while playing most of 2013 hurt and less than 100%
In 2013, the #10 position in catches stood at 89. In yards it was 1,314 and amazingly, Fitz was at #10 in TD's...
Fitz will be 31 when the 2014 season begins... Is it really that much of a stretch to see Fitz get close to, if not above 100 receptions, 1,400 yards and more than 10 TD receptions?? C'mon man...

I see you making a lot of excuses for why Fitz has been playing poorly, but not making much of a case for why Fitz will be good in the future.

Just to give you an idea of how far Fitz has fallen, in the FootballOutsiders advanced metrics, Fitz ranked 37th in season-long production and 53rd in per-play metrics. Including all those TDs, Fitz was actually a below-average wide receiver last year.

You can "c'mon man" and "really bro" me all you want, but Fitz had a higher-quality passer feeding him the ball in 2013 than he had in 2011, and he wasn't very good.

If you think he can nibble around the bottom of the Top 10 in yardage and get 1300+ yards, I guess you can make a case that he can put together a season similar to Pierre Garcon--but is that really the argument that you're making here?

Why did it only take a single offseason for Reggie Wayne to adapt to the Fitz role in the same offense and excel--with a rookie QB, no less? Is Wayne a far superior player to Fitz at this point in their careers?

I think that Fitz can rebound and be a Top 15 WR fairly easily. He has to maintain his red zone production (where we fed him the ball--maybe force-fed him) and do more with the opportunities he had on the outside.

There's no guarantee that Fitz is going to be able to get and stay healthy at this point in his career, either.

Fitz is a quality, quality skill-position player. The problem is that--at least when ranking him among the league's elite players at the position--Fitz's natural abilities have declined, and he doesn't have that much more progress to make in the finer points of the game to make up for it. I gave you a list of like 15 players--which of those guys is Fitz better than right now, outside of the excuses that you're making for his poor play the last two years?

 

[Covert Rain]

I voted he will be cut but I think that is partly based on how he performs this season. If he has a big season, he won't take a pay cut and the Cards will cut him as a result. Enjoy Fitz while you can. He will be another in a long line of favorite Cards moving on to other teams.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I see you making a lot of excuses for why Fitz has been playing poorly, but not making much of a case for why Fitz will be good in the future.

Just to give you an idea of how far Fitz has fallen, in the FootballOutsiders advanced metrics, Fitz ranked 37th in season-long production and 53rd in per-play metrics. Including all those TDs, Fitz was actually a below-average wide receiver last year.

You can "c'mon man" and "really bro" me all you want, but Fitz had a higher-quality passer feeding him the ball in 2013 than he had in 2011, and he wasn't very good.

If you think he can nibble around the bottom of the Top 10 in yardage and get 1300+ yards, I guess you can make a case that he can put together a season similar to Pierre Garcon--but is that really the argument that you're making here?

Why did it only take a single offseason for Reggie Wayne to adapt to the Fitz role in the same offense and excel--with a rookie QB, no less? Is Wayne a far superior player to Fitz at this point in their careers?

I think that Fitz can rebound and be a Top 15 WR fairly easily. He has to maintain his red zone production (where we fed him the ball--maybe force-fed him) and do more with the opportunities he had on the outside.

There's no guarantee that Fitz is going to be able to get and stay healthy at this point in his career, either.

Fitz is a quality, quality skill-position player. The problem is that--at least when ranking him among the league's elite players at the position--Fitz's natural abilities have declined, and he doesn't have that much more progress to make in the finer points of the game to make up for it. I gave you a list of like 15 players--which of those guys is Fitz better than right now, outside of the excuses that you're making for his poor play the last two years?

My arguments for why Fitz will have a better 2014 have been clearly pointed out...
And rather than get caught up in where he ranks at the end of the season, I would simply say that I like his chances for reaching 95 or more receptions, 1,400 yards and 10 or more TD's... I think that would place him in the Top 10 in all 3 categories, but regardless, that would be a very nice season for Fitz and should hopefully translate to good things for the team.
As for who Fitz is better than regarding the names you tossed out:

- Antonio Brown: after 3 sub-par seasons, he finally busted out in 2013. One season doesn't make him better than Fitz in my book.

- Alshon Jeffrey: Has only had 2 NFL seasons with 2013 matching Fitz's career average season.

- Desean Jackson: After 6 average at best seasons, he finally gets to 82 catches in 2013 and 1,300 yards. Again, one season doesn't make him better than Fitz...

- TY Hilton: 2013 = 82 catches, 50 more yards than Fitz and 5 less TD's makes him better than Fitz???

- Torrey Smith: 2013 was his career year, where he produced 65 catches, 1,100 yards and 4 TD's... again - so not better than Fitz.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I support the notion that Fitz is still an elite WR, but the hamstring injury actually does not benefit as an excuse but a reason why he might not be an elite WR. Hamstring injuries are often a sign of age because the older one gets, the less flexibility they have and a decrease in speed. Sort of like Boldin when he was running for that TD in the playoffs against the Falcons and his hamstring went funky

 

[Jim Otis]

I read somewhere recently , that Calvin Johnson is the highest paid WR and Fitz is number 2 . Do the Cardinals continue to pay that amount if he grades out at the end of the 2014 season as the #7 rec. I would bet that Peppers could have taken a paycut ,and stayed in Chicago , and Revis could have done the same in Tampa . I have to beleive that if Fitz doesn't grade out in the top 5 Wr's in 2014 , the contract will be an issue , and I don't mean a restructure , they did that this year .

 

[Duckjake]

I still hold out hope that Fitz can have a big year like he did in 2011 with 1411 yards, 8TDs, and 17.6ypc with Skelton and Kolb.

Why, just being a Fitz homer and hoping that Floyd and Ginn and Ellington can take off some of the double and triple coverage. However, Fitz has never been quick off the los and if he's lost a step the last couple of years my hope may just be a pipe dream.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Then what is all this about Duck at 1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVCWddQHN8

 

[Duckjake]

Then what is all this about Duck at 1:48
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVCWddQHN8

It was a trick.

However, the coaches film doesn't lie and it shows both Fitz and Floyd are slow coming off the los.

 

[juza76]

I read somewhere recently , that Calvin Johnson is the highest paid WR and Fitz is number 2 . Do the Cardinals continue to pay that amount if he grades out at the end of the 2014 season as the #7 rec. I would bet that Peppers could have taken a paycut ,and stayed in Chicago , and Revis could have done the same in Tampa . I have to beleive that if Fitz doesn't grade out in the top 5 Wr's in 2014 , the contract will be an issue , and I don't mean a restructure , they did that this year .

calvin johnson salary is well deserved ,,he makes incredible numbers every seasons.
fitz has got ton of money already,he should be less greedy and take a well deserved pay cut considering his last seasons;
or at least he should give the extra money is getting now to help some poor families in the state,but not raising fund but giving money to them directly