Cards make offer to Green

[Billy Flynt]

According to ESPN radio report

 

[Billy Flynt]

Wednesday, January 7, 2004


By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

He may not have needed a second chance to make a good first impression but, in his encore interview with Arizona Cardinals high-ranking officials Tuesday, Dennis Green was convincing enough that the club has offered him its head coach position.


As reported by ESPN.com on Tuesday, team officials flew to San Diego for a follow-up interview with Green, who first met with the Cardinals last Wednesday at their complex. A few hours later, with team officials having returned to Phoenix to brief owner Bill Bidwill, the Cardinals made Green an offer.


Negotiations began Tuesday evening and, while indications are that Green will succeed the fired Dave McGinnis, there is work to be done. The offer, while better than Arizona has paid most of its head coaches in recent years, is not yet at the level where Green is willing to agree.


But discussions are scheduled to continue Wednesday and there is mutual interest in striking a deal that would end Green's two-year absence from the league (currently he is an ESPN studio analyst). Green has had the support, from the outset of the courtship, of vice president of football operations Rod Graves. He then gained favor with vice president Michael Bidwill, the owner's son.


If he accepts the Cardinals job, it is believed Green will have considerable control over football operations. Green also was interviewed by Washington and Oakland, but the Redskins and Joe Gibbs have an agreement and sources close to Green said Tuesday night he believes the Raiders situation could be "treacherous," even given the coach's long and close relationship with owner Al Davis.


Said one source: "Denny really believes he can get that thing [in Arizona] turned around. If he can get himself a quarterback, and they'll be in position to draft somebody like [Eli] Manning, they could win in a couple years."


The Cardinals, who will move into a new stadium in two years, need a head coach with a track record of success to energize their pitifully small fan base.


Other candidates for the Arizona job are former New York Giants coach Jim Fassel, a one-time Cardinals offensive coordinator, and current NFL defensive coordinators Jim Johnson of Philadelphia and Romeo Crennel of New England.


Sources said that, during Tuesday's interview with Green, the Cardinals asked him what they called "tough questions," including queries about past off-field incidents. Green is said to have been candid and, for the second time, very impressive in expressing to officials his on-field and personnel philosophies.


Green was 101-70 during 10 seasons with the Vikings and went to the playoffs eight times.


Len Pasquarelli is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

 

[NavyVet]

I'd like to see him bring in the newly fired Tim Lewis from the Steelers as DC. Number 1 defense last year, and number 9 this year with lousy corners. Install the 3-4 and let our linebackers go to town.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by NavyVet
I'd like to see him bring in the newly fired Tim Lewis from the Steelers as DC. Number 1 defense last year, and number 9 this year with lousy corners. Install the 3-4 and let our linebackers go to town.

Oh yes. Oh please God yes. This would be awesome. How bad of a fall guy was Lewis this year? No corners, hurt superstar (for a time), offense turning the ball over like crazy/getting stuffed. I'd love to go to the 3-4 and I'd love to have him as DC.

 

[Russ Smith]

I guess my only concern is he really going to be the coach or is this just some setup for an ESPN reality show (-:

Until the deal is signed I won't react one way or another, Green is certainly not perfect but you can't argue with his success in Minnesota and it certainly sounds like we've done our homework and are not just blindly grabbing the first guy who shows interest in the job.

The comment about finding a QB is telling, doesn't sound like Green or the Cards are convinced yet that Josh is the future starter.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by NavyVet
I'd like to see him bring in the newly fired Tim Lewis from the Steelers as DC. Number 1 defense last year, and number 9 this year with lousy corners. Install the 3-4 and let our linebackers go to town.

Really? I'd rather have them bring in the recently scapegoated NY Jets DC... forget his name right now... but I think that he'd be a good choice. I wonder if he's a Green disciple. I think he'd come from Dungy's staff...

If we switch to a 3-4, we're going to have to re-draft defensive linemen and at least one REAL MLB.

 

[NavyVet]

Getting rid of Tim Lewis is the beginning of the end for Cowher. The guy has lost his mind.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by kerouac9
If we switch to a 3-4, we're going to have to re-draft defensive linemen and at least one REAL MLB.

Actually...KVB, Pace, Wakefield, Bell...these guys would work well as 3-4 DEs. We'd need a nose tackle (who wishes we had Ted Washington now?). I'd love to have a stud MLB to go with it, but Hayes and McKinnon would certainly work. They don't have to be the big pluggers they are in the 4-3...they just have to hit holes...it's what makes Lewis so deadly (though he IS a stud MLB as well).

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Stout
Actually...KVB, Pace, Wakefield, Bell...these guys would work well as 3-4 DEs. We'd need a nose tackle (who wishes we had Ted Washington now?). I'd love to have a stud MLB to go with it, but Hayes and McKinnon would certainly work. They don't have to be the big pluggers they are in the 4-3...they just have to hit holes...it's what makes Lewis so deadly (though he IS a stud MLB as well).

Actually, the big problem with haveing McKinnon in as a 3-4 MLB is that those players have to drop into coverage, especially on zone blitzes. McKinnon can apparently only move in one direction, and that's forward.

You're deluding yourself if you think that KVB or Wakefield are going to be on this team next season. Wakefield can't play DE in a 4-3, I don't know why you think that he'd "work well" as one in a 3-4. I don't think we'd be able to run an "Atlanta-style" 3-4, just because we don't have the pass rushers or really the speed to do it, as well as the MLBs. Maybe we could have Pace and Bryant at DE, with Bell working in as well as Kenny King, but we'd still need at least 2 behemoth DTs. Ted Washington is apparently a free agent.

As for the linebackers: Maybe Fisher and Hayes could make the transition, but Raynoch Thompson would have to be traded, because he's straight-up too small to take on offensive linemen and fullbacks at the point of attack. He's almost too small to do what he does as a linebacker in a 4-3.

 

[JeffGollin]

Possible Return of Former Cardinal Coaches

I wouldn't be shocked if (a) Teddy Cottrell returned to the Cards as D-line coach, (b) Sully was rehired as WR coach and (c) Rich Rodriguez returned as special teams coach.

 

[kerouac9]

Re: Possible Return of Former Cardinal Coaches

Originally posted by JeffGollin
I wouldn't be shocked if (a) Teddy Cottrell returned to the Cards as D-line coach, (b) Sully was rehired as WR coach and (c) Rich Rodriguez returned as special teams coach.

Do you really think that Ted Cottrell would fall all the way to D-line coach? Wasn't he DC for the Jets this season? Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing him as D-Coordinator.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Actually, the big problem with haveing McKinnon in as a 3-4 MLB is that those players have to drop into coverage, especially on zone blitzes. McKinnon can apparently only move in one direction, and that's forward.

You're deluding yourself if you think that KVB or Wakefield are going to be on this team next season. Wakefield can't play DE in a 4-3, I don't know why you think that he'd "work well" as one in a 3-4. I don't think we'd be able to run an "Atlanta-style" 3-4, just because we don't have the pass rushers or really the speed to do it, as well as the MLBs. Maybe we could have Pace and Bryant at DE, with Bell working in as well as Kenny King, but we'd still need at least 2 behemoth DTs. Ted Washington is apparently a free agent.

As for the linebackers: Maybe Fisher and Hayes could make the transition, but Raynoch Thompson would have to be traded, because he's straight-up too small to take on offensive linemen and fullbacks at the point of attack. He's almost too small to do what he does as a linebacker in a 4-3.

Yeah, you make very good points too. I think it's do-able, but it'll be up to what the new coach wants, who he keeps, etc.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by NavyVet
I'd like to see him bring in the newly fired Tim Lewis from the Steelers as DC. Number 1 defense last year, and number 9 this year with lousy corners. Install the 3-4 and let our linebackers go to town.

We don't have the OLBs to run a Steelers 3-4. You need defensive end-style OLBs that are in the 250-260 range, not the 220 (Ray Thompson)-230 range (Levar Fisher).

No offense, but I always chuckle when I hear people say that we should run a 3-4. We also don't have a nose tackle to make it effective either...

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
We don't have the OLBs to run a Steelers 3-4. You need defensive end-style OLBs that are in the 250-260 range, not the 220 (Ray Thompson)-230 range (Levar Fisher).

No offense, but I always chuckle when I hear people say that we should run a 3-4. We also don't have a nose tackle to make it effective either...

These are all things that can change during the off season...you Noob!

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
We don't have the OLBs to run a Steelers 3-4. You need defensive end-style OLBs that are in the 250-260 range, not the 220 (Ray Thompson)-230 range (Levar Fisher).

No offense, but I always chuckle when I hear people say that we should run a 3-4. We also don't have a nose tackle to make it effective either...

We COULD run the Falcons/Wade Phillips 3-4, which is based on speed and not necessarily size, but I still don't think we have the players to do it. Ronnie Mac is not Keith Brooking, and couldn't be in 1000 years.

And we'd still need a nose tackle.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
you Noob!

Did you mean, "You knob", as in you knobbie?

I prefer to be called a blowhard....

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Did you mean, "You knob", as in you knobbie?

I prefer to be called a blowhard....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
We COULD run the Falcons/Wade Phillips 3-4, which is based on speed and not necessarily size, but I still don't think we have the players to do it. Ronnie Mac is not Keith Brooking, and couldn't be in 1000 years.

And we'd still need a nose tackle.

But if we were bringing in Tim Lewis, we would be running a Steelers-style 3-4. He has Jason Gildon and Joey Porter, who are basically 4-3 left defensive ends.

I love Levar (like you do) and I still like Ray, but I don't think they would be a good fit for a 3-4. I would rather us run a conventional 4-3.

Right end- Pass rusher to be named or drafted (Kearse would be great)
Right tackle- Kenny King
Left tackle- Wendell Bryant
Left defensive end- Calvin Pace (to use his speed against typically slower right tackles)

ROLB- Levar Fisher (use him more in pass rush situations, but also in coverage as well).
MLB- Gerald Hayes (Probably the best instincts of any of our linebackers, and would be an athletic MLB who could be more effective in coverage than Ronnie Mac)
LOLB- Ray Thompson (He should be used more in pass rush situations, and cover less. I would love to replace him with Julian Peterson, but that isn't going to happen).

 

[Tangodnzr]

My prognostication is that the coming trend will continue to be a "hybrid" defense, involving lots of player "situational" substitutions and a mixture of "4-3" and '3-4" alignments.

I think those who propound strictly one or the other are clinging to relics of the past.

The Cards seemed to be making a an effort in that direction, they just weren't able to pull if off yet with the combination of coaches and players they had.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Right end- Pass rusher to be named or drafted (Kearse would be great)
Right tackle- Kenny King
Left tackle- Wendell Bryant
Left defensive end- Calvin Pace (to use his speed against typically slower right tackles)

ROLB- Levar Fisher (use him more in pass rush situations, but also in coverage as well).
MLB- Gerald Hayes (Probably the best instincts of any of our linebackers, and would be an athletic MLB who could be more effective in coverage than Ronnie Mac)
LOLB- Ray Thompson (He should be used more in pass rush situations, and cover less. I would love to replace him with Julian Peterson, but that isn't going to happen).

But what about KVB and Fred Wakefield, the cornerstones of our defense?

Seriously, though, I like it. I DO think that we should work James Darling more at the "Mike" position early in the season. For the first six or nine games, Darling would get the start with Hayes working in some as he learns the Pro game from that position and bulks up (a little). At the same time, Hayes would see a lot of work at the "Will" position, working run downs and such for Ray Thompson. Levar Fisher sees a lot of action at the "Sam" spot. As the season grinds on, Hayes will take the "Mike" slot, giving a lot of two-way protection in the LB corps, which is really what we need.

What about Ronnie Mac, you might ask? Well, I've seen his future, and it is as a goal line linebacker. Welcome to Rod Fredrickson's word, "Mac Dog".

I'm not sure that you can have King and Bryant playing next to each other every down. They're just too small. I hope we keep EITHER Barron Tanner OR Russel Davis, but NOT BOTH. Ideally, we'd get a 2-gap DT either somewhat cheaply in free agency or on the second day of the draft. Someone like Chester McGlockton, Grady Jackson, or Gilbert Brown. That would give us a roster of DTs of W. Bryant (1G), K. King (1G), M. Bell (1G), Tanner/Davis (2G), and 2-Gap DT (I love 2-Gap DTs). Two of Bryant/King/Bell would come in on passing downs, and you should only need to use the 2-gappers on 35-40% of the total plays in the game. That would be a pretty good, above-average DT group that's pretty deep, too.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9


But what about KVB and Fred Wakefield, the cornerstones of our defense?

Seriously, though, I like it. I DO think that we should work James Darling more at the "Mike" position early in the season. For the first six or nine games, Darling would get the start with Hayes working in some as he learns the Pro game from that position and bulks up (a little). At the same time, Hayes would see a lot of work at the "Will" position, working run downs and such for Ray Thompson. Levar Fisher sees a lot of action at the "Sam" spot. As the season grinds on, Hayes will take the "Mike" slot, giving a lot of two-way protection in the LB corps, which is really what we need.

What about Ronnie Mac, you might ask? Well, I've seen his future, and it is as a goal line linebacker. Welcome to Rod Fredrickson's word, "Mac Dog".

I'm not sure that you can have King and Bryant playing next to each other every down. They're just too small. I hope we keep EITHER Barron Tanner OR Russel Davis, but NOT BOTH. Ideally, we'd get a 2-gap DT either somewhat cheaply in free agency or on the second day of the draft. Someone like Chester McGlockton, Grady Jackson, or Gilbert Brown. That would give us a roster of DTs of W. Bryant (1G), K. King (1G), M. Bell (1G), Tanner/Davis (2G), and 2-Gap DT (I love 2-Gap DTs). Two of Bryant/King/Bell would come in on passing downs, and you should only need to use the 2-gappers on 35-40% of the total plays in the game. That would be a pretty good, above-average DT group that's pretty deep, too.

Wakefield actually played decently as a rotational player, especially on 3rd down pass rush. KVB is completely out of "my" plans. I would make him earn his spot.

I like your ideas; Darling didn't play half bad as a sub "mike". He should get the start in the beginning, while Hayes is groomed to take over in the middle. I wouldn't cut Ronnie Mac like some suggest; he has done enough for this franchise and is a valuable lockerroom leader. Linebacker is a position of strength for us, but as I stated, I would like to see Hayes get some time at the mike.

You are definitely correct about a Bryant/King combo against the run. I would like to keep Barron Tanner around. I honestly believe that Tanner is underrated; he is hard to move in the run game, and occasionally gets a nice push in pass rush situations. Davis isn't as valuable. He doesn't make enough plays at the point of attack, and he doesn't get much push in the pass rush.

All of this discussion makes me even more of a pro-4-3 guy. We really don't have the right players to make that system work, and we really only need 2-3 players to make a 4-3 pretty good.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
All of this discussion makes me even more of a pro-4-3 guy. We really don't have the right players to make that system work, and we really only need 2-3 players to make a 4-3 pretty good.

People like the 3-4 because it's a "novelty" set that was unusual four years ago. Unfortunatly, it caught on, and with maybe 15% of the league running it (ATL, PIT, HOU, BAL, NE) and other teams giving 3-4 "looks", it isn't as unusual.

The Cards just don't have the personnel to use it, and it could take 3-4 years to build it up. They don't have that kind of time. The way that they used it this season (with King playing MLB) had a tactical advantage (he could choose his rushing lane), but not a lot of strategic advantages (no one was going to have him zoning over the middle while, say, Raynoch was the 4th rusher). Part of the advantage of the Pittsburgh/Baltimore/Houston 3-4 is that ANYONE could be rushing, ANYONE could be dropping into coverage, and that coverage could be man or zone. Heck, New England isn't even afraid to drop ends into coverage REGULARLY.

With the 4-3, the offense knows what you're going to do much of the time, but you also have good options with zone blitzes (which we did use in one game, but it was on the goal line and Calvin Pace was in coverage against a wideout or tight end) to help stop the slant (which we never did effectively). Tampa uses the 4-3 and it's not uncommon to see their DEs get 2-3 picks A SEASON off zone blitzes. The Rams are often victims of this because they throw 3-step drops to WR screens all the time.

As for the Cards DEs, I sure hope that KVB's gone. Him or Wakefield, and I think that Wakefield, believe it or not, has more upside. He kind of has a knack for just trudging up the field and getting 2-3 coverage sacks per season because O-linemen are worried about the good players. If we keep 5 DTs, we can only have four DEs, so I'd think that we could have a DE group of C. Pace, J. Kearse (or whomever [Ogubougulye from Miami springs to mind as an alternate candidate]), D. Johnson, and Wakefield/KVB. Because Bryant and King are "tweeners," one should be cross-trained (I'm betting King, I think we've seen that Bryant isn't very effective unless he's focusing his energies). We could also release Wakefield or KVB to pick up someone like Ahanotu or even this season's Chike Okeafor. It might hurt the run defense a little, but it would help the pass rush. A "dime" defense of Kearse-Bryant-Bell-King would be pretty interesting, since you have some flexibilty defending the draw.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain

I like your ideas; Darling didn't play half bad as a sub "mike". He should get the start in the beginning, while Hayes is groomed to take over in the middle. I wouldn't cut Ronnie Mac like some suggest; he has done enough for this franchise and is a valuable lockerroom leader. Linebacker is a position of strength for us, but as I stated, I would like to see Hayes get some time at the mike.

You are definitely correct about a Bryant/King combo against the run. I would like to keep Barron Tanner around. I honestly believe that Tanner is underrated; he is hard to move in the run game, and occasionally gets a nice push in pass rush situations. Davis isn't as valuable. He doesn't make enough plays at the point of attack, and he doesn't get much push in the pass rush.

Sign Al Wilson and both Darling and McKinnon become superfluous. Small group of LB's but with Fisher, Wilson, Thompson , Hayes and Woods and company we could sure run things down fast.

If we don't end up with Ben or Eli and we take Sean Taylor and add a guy like Wilson or Kearse or Ellis we could REALLY improve on defense quickly.

I don't see any way we can sign Wilson AND Kearse, and Kearse is clearly a bigger need, but I'm a big Wilson fan if you made a list of the top 10 "big hits" this year he'd probably have 5 of them. He's not as big as Lewis and Urlacher and won't make the INT's and stuff Lewis does but he's not that far below those guys.

There's a guy on the Bronco Board who goes by Rolling Thunder who seems to have real insight into how they operate and really understands their cap and he doesn't think they'll try to keep Wilson. he thinks they'll probably franchise him with the intent of trading him, I'm kind of hoping the league cracks down on that this year and Wilson winds up a full fledged UFA.

FYI Kearse and Taylor are the 2 most popular players we should get on the Bronco board too. The more I think about it the more I want Taylor if we cant' get Ben or Eli.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by kerouac9
People like the 3-4 because it's a "novelty" set that was unusual four years ago. Unfortunatly, it caught on, and with maybe 15% of the league running it (ATL, PIT, HOU, BAL, NE) and other teams giving 3-4 "looks", it isn't as unusual.

Oh, I totally understand the fascination....but it really isn't a realistic change for this team.

Originally posted by kerouac9
The Cards just don't have the personnel to use it, and it could take 3-4 years to build it up. They don't have that kind of time. The way that they used it this season (with King playing MLB) had a tactical advantage (he could choose his rushing lane), but not a lot of strategic advantages (no one was going to have him zoning over the middle while, say, Raynoch was the 4th rusher). Part of the advantage of the Pittsburgh/Baltimore/Houston 3-4 is that ANYONE could be rushing, ANYONE could be dropping into coverage, and that coverage could be man or zone. Heck, New England isn't even afraid to drop ends into coverage REGULARLY.

With the 4-3, the offense knows what you're going to do much of the time, but you also have good options with zone blitzes (which we did use in one game, but it was on the goal line and Calvin Pace was in coverage against a wideout or tight end) to help stop the slant (which we never did effectively). Tampa uses the 4-3 and it's not uncommon to see their DEs get 2-3 picks A SEASON off zone blitzes. The Rams are often victims of this because they throw 3-step drops to WR screens all the time.

Very true, but a properly run 4-3 with good talent, you don't have to worry about gimmicks. Physical domination is better than gimmicks IMO. This defense needs a change in philosophy; no more read & react. Quit playing the linebackers/dbs so far off the line, it gives the offense a chance to cross the line of scrimmage quicker.

Originally posted by kerouac9
As for the Cards DEs, I sure hope that KVB's gone. Him or Wakefield, and I think that Wakefield, believe it or not, has more upside. He kind of has a knack for just trudging up the field and getting 2-3 coverage sacks per season because O-linemen are worried about the good players. If we keep 5 DTs, we can only have four DEs, so I'd think that we could have a DE group of C. Pace, J. Kearse (or whomever [Ogubougulye from Miami springs to mind as an alternate candidate]), D. Johnson, and Wakefield/KVB. Because Bryant and King are "tweeners," one should be cross-trained (I'm betting King, I think we've seen that Bryant isn't very effective unless he's focusing his energies). We could also release Wakefield or KVB to pick up someone like Ahanotu or even this season's Chike Okeafor. It might hurt the run defense a little, but it would help the pass rush. A "dime" defense of Kearse-Bryant-Bell-King would be pretty interesting, since you have some flexibilty defending the draw.

Agunleye (Miami) would be a nice pickup. He is a free agent, I would assume since he was a restricted free agent last year. He is what I call "liquid pass rush", a guy that will always be effective just rushing the passer.

Good eye, Kerouac! I constantly look at "second tier" players. "Second tier" players can quickly become "first tier" players in this league, and Agunleye is one of those guys. He's had, what, 10 sacks the past two years??

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Sign Al Wilson and both Darling and McKinnon become superfluous. Small group of LB's but with Fisher, Wilson, Thompson , Hayes and Woods and company we could sure run things down fast.

Meh. Al Wilson kind of leaves me cold. If we're going to get a new "Mike" LB, then I prefer we draft one. Al Wilson was also the one who failed to tap down Marvin Harrison last week.

Frankly put, we don't have the defensive line to protect Wilson the way that the Broncos do. Just like Urlacher suffered without the strong DTs this season, so will Wilson outside a system like the Broncs. I think he'd do great at a place like Jacksonville, maybe Tennesee, the Jets might like him (they're looking to add youth and speed to their LBs), but not here.

I think that we'd have been better off to have some vision and drafe Nick Barnett instead of Calvin Pace, but that didn't happen. I think that you can still get very, very good talent at the MLB position in the second and third rounds, and that, even if Hayes doen't work out, you can get someone in the next two or three years.