Cards meeting today (3/19) in OK with Murray

[Veer]

It all comes down to if we have rated Murray higher than Rosen. If so, we can already run to the podium. Given his great accuracy, effortless release and once in a generation athletic ability for the QB position along with the unteachable feel to use it, it's honestly hard to see Murray being ranked below Rosen. Rosen was a top 10 pick in his own right, but is a prototypical pocket passer - found each and every year in the draft (Haskins) - who surpassed 60% completion just once in college (62.5%), and looked nothing special in the NFL, even when you consider the bad circumstances. For every Peyton and Eli, who "sucked" as a rookie but turned out a franchise QB, there are at least 20 or 30 Gabbert/Bortles type QBs who never get it and set their franchises back for years because they stick with them for too long.

The Murray media hype is just a late reaction to him entering the NFL draft and committing to football. You couldn't realistically grade him or take him serious as a 1st round QB prospect when he was the 9th overall pick in the MLB draft and had no major success as a college QB up until just 6 months ago. I can only repeat myself, 6 months ago nobody - not even Kyler Murray - could have thought of being a 1st round QB selection, let alone a top 10 lock and favorite to go 1st overall!

Lawrence, Tua... We don't know if they will still be rated highly next year or in two years. And even if so, will we have a shot at them? Considering how long it took us to finally have the 1st overall pick, I don't think so. Murray will cost just one pick. 1 pick! If we had beaten the Raiders at home - who probably sucked even worse than we did last year - we'd be talking about the 3rd or 4th overall pick. It's just one pick. If we draft well with the next two picks, I'm willing to take the risk on the highest upside player in the draft, who happens to play the most important position.

I was pro Rosen at first. But the longer I think about it, Murray should be our pick. KK is the perfect guy to get the most out of his ability. If it was still McCoy running the offense, this would be another story. But KK has no ties to Rosen. SK will get the wild card by MB because nobody could expect Wilks turning out so bad and the Cards picking 1st overall.

 

[Zeno]

Dude is going to be primetime tv in the NFL....whether that's with the cards or another team.

I am not sold at all on Rosen. He's Jay Cutler all over again. He's not elite and won't win a championship. Not saying Murray will either...but his upside is far beyond Rosens.

In what way is he Jay Cutler? It isn’t attitude or leadership that’s for sure.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I dont hear anyone in the media or scouts saying Murray is going to fail. Its many Rosen fans on this board. That's about it.

People summed him up by his height. If he was 6'2, a lot more people would be jocking him.

Russell Wilson hasn't failed against NFL defenses, and I think Murray could actually be as good or better than Wilson.

I don't really give a poop about his lack of height or measurables...I do still care about his lack of personality, as seen in interviews, etc...and I won't be comfortable with the baseball option until he turns 30. And when Scott Boras is involved, trust nothing!

This article was written basically a few weeks before Murray said he was all in for football.

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/Kyler-Murray-s-agent-A-s-pick-will-fulfill-13447657.php

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Veer]

In what way is he Jay Cutler? It isn’t attitude or leadership that’s for sure.

I think it's more about comparing their arm talent and what Cutler made out of it. Cutler, probably even more so than Rosen, had a big arm and could make all the throws in the world. However, he made too many crucial mistakes, too many missed opportunities on easy throws. Ultimately, he still made some "wow" throws each and every game and had a nice NFL career. But when it counted most, he would kill you with untimely picks, fumbles and easy misses. If we stick with Rosen and he turns out to be similar to Cutler, we won't win if we make the playoffs once in a while, while still being too good to pick the next franchise QB. Stafford and Bradford or somewhat similar in that regard, even though both were much better prospects than Cutler/Rosen.

Settling for a Cutler or Dalton type QB is great if you are into 8-8 and some 10-6 seasons (only with a strong defense) with the odd playoff appearance and without much chance to win the Superbowl.

 

[slanidrac16]

I dont hear anyone in the media or scouts saying Murray is going to fail. Its many Rosen fans on this board. That's about it.

People summed him up by his height. If he was 6'2, a lot more people would be jocking him.

Russell Wilson hasn't failed against NFL defenses, and I think Murray could actually be as good or better than Wilson.

Bucky brooks said it yesterday. If the cards or raiders don’t take Murray he’ll probably drop out of the top 10. If That were to happen would that be proof that not everyone believes he is all that is being said. We don’t know. Maybe the phones are ringing off the wall to trade up.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

In what way is he Jay Cutler? It isn’t attitude or leadership that’s for sure.

This! If Rosen has proven one thing, its his dedication to football and the Cardinals. Some on here have called him a spoiled brat, based on his background, but that brat got the poo beat out of him last year...and got back up each and every time...never complained...became a leader (Fitz even said so). So why do people continue to question this about him?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Veer]

Bucky brooks said it yesterday. If the cards or raiders don’t take Murray he’ll probably drop out of the top 10. If That were to happen would that be proof that not everyone believes he is all that is being said. We don’t know. Maybe the phones are ringing off the wall to trade up.

Bucky Brooks has historically always undervalued the QB position. He is a good scout. But if Brooks would be a GM, his franchise would never draft a QB because some DB from a big college would be on the board who is running 4.4 and a solid tackler.

The hardcore scout Brooks is, he would never believe in a midget QB lol, despite worldclass athleticism and great accuracy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I don't really give a poop about his lack of height or measurables...I do still care about his lack of personality, as seen in interviews, etc...and I won't be comfortable with the baseball option until he turns 30. And when Scott Boras is involved, trust nothing!

This article was written basically a few weeks before Murray said he was all in for football.

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/Kyler-Murray-s-agent-A-s-pick-will-fulfill-13447657.php

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

So you are going to use the Rosen (character) argument? Murray is an introvert according to literally everyone I've heard talk about him. He's not a rah-rah Russell Wilson type. He's a silent killer who leads by example.

Baseball...we've already been over this. Hell get more guaranteed money right off the bat from football.

Did you know that the A's gave Murray a major league roster guarantee late last fall? Unprecedented for a Major League draft pick. He turned it down. It's really a cultural shift, most kids would rather be in the NFL than MLB.

If Murray is jumping to baseball, he's going because he failed in the NFL. At that point, who cares.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One of the reasons I flipped.

I just can't ignore how good most of his tape is.

His release is elite right now. His touch is very good. He can make every throw, and make every throw without a ridiculous wind up. I like Rosen's arm talent last year coming out, but Murray's arm is even better.

I havent even mentioned his running ability. Murray is the best player in the open field in this draft. Easily. It's not even close.

His intangibles are what sold me on him. The kid is a winner, an achiever. He was built for this. His father was a college QB, and he taught him how to throw. Every coach I've heard talk about him has said he's an amazing young man. His competitive edge and will to be great are next level.

Whew. I thought i was crazy reading your kyler support posts. You did flip. I’m not losing my mind.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But still there’s the questions by many. I don’t remember the controversy’s when Manning or Luck we’re being drafted. There are people who say Murray is sliced bread and more yet there are some that are saying he will fail against nfl defenses. It’s probably the reason we are so divided on this.

I think he’s the most polarizing player this board has ever seen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Dude is going to be primetime tv in the NFL....whether that's with the cards or another team.

I am not sold at all on Rosen. He's Jay Cutler all over again. He's not elite and won't win a championship. Not saying Murray will either...but his upside is far beyond Rosens.

Comparing Rosen to cutler is lazy. They aren’t the same. Not in physical ability, not in work ethic. Not in intelligence. Lazy.

 

[juza76]

Comparing Rosen to cutler is lazy. They aren’t the same. Not in physical ability, not in work ethic. Not in intelligence. Lazy.

Maybe is not really comparing but thinking about Rosen high ceiling= Cutler

 

[Dr. Jones]

I think he’s the most polarizing player this board has ever seen.

I still go back to the "Boldin vs. Larry: Who's Better" debate. Still gives me some slight PTSD.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Some interesting tid bits in the linked article.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles...om&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

 

[Krangodnzr]

Whew. I thought i was crazy reading your kyler support posts. You did flip. I’m not losing my mind.

Yes. Fully. I just couldn't get past what I was seeing. My initial bias was that he was shrimp who ran all of the time. Then I listened to what the arguments for Murray. Watched a lot of tape on him.

Came to the conclusion that he not only was better in college, but he'll likely be better than Rosen will be in the NFL. If that is my conclusion, then I have to support drafting him. As has been pointed out by others on this board, Aaron Donald is only worth 2 wins above replacement. Is Nick Bosa, Aaron Donald? Would the impact of hitting on Murray really be less than Rosen and Bosa? If Murray works out and Rosen becomes average, Murray will be worth probably 3-4 extra wins per year over Rosen. In that case, Rosen and Bosa do not have a greater impact.

I legitimately think that Murray is a better Quarterback than Rosen, and that's not accounting for his ability to run. Just look at how effortlessly he throws the ball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I still go back to the "Boldin vs. Larry: Who's Better" debate. Still gives me some slight PTSD.

That was just silly in my mind. Both were fantastic and both were in the cards. I couldn’t believe people argued about that.

This is a whole lotta love verse hate in one guy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes. Fully. I just couldn't get past what I was seeing. My initial bias was that he was shrimp who ran all of the time. Then I listened to what the arguments for Murray. Watched a lot of tape on him.

Came to the conclusion that he not only was better in college, but he'll likely be better than Rosen will be in the NFL. If that is my conclusion, then I have to support drafting him. As has been pointed out by others on this board, Aaron Donald is only worth 2 wins above replacement. Is Nick Bosa, Aaron Donald? Would the impact of hitting on Murray really be less than Rosen and Bosa? If Murray works out and Rosen becomes average, Murray will be worth probably 3-4 extra wins per year over Rosen. In that case, Rosen and Bosa do not have a greater impact.

I legitimately think that Murray is a better Quarterback than Rosen, and that's not accounting for his ability to run. Just look at how effortlessly he throws the ball.

This is where I came out too. Still have concerns about Murray but the potential upside is just so great.

 

[Dr. Jones]

That was just silly in my mind. Both were fantastic and both were in the cards. I couldn’t believe people argued about that.

This is a whole lotta love verse hate in one guy.

I remember some pretty crazy arguments being made about Larry. Fitz took a lot of crap from many of us from 04 to 06 IIRC.

My Boldin man crush got me carried away back then.

 

[Jetstream Green]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[WildBB]

Pretty sure Murray's the pick. Rosen to NE, Wash. or maybe NY or Mia. Cards chips are all in.