Cards Post Super Bowl Direction

[Stout]

I won’t disagree with this. 2025 is a tell tale season for the Cardinals. I’m a lot more optimistic about 2025 than a lot of the whiners on this board are.

What a maroon

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Comparing 1-2 and 4-8 is borderline ignorant. But, you’re entitled to your opinion.

It is. But it’s why your binary argument is also borderline ignorant. But you’re also entitled to your opinion.

 

[Card'em]

Talk about black and white thinking. The kind of thinking that would be touting a victory if the team went from 1-16 to 2-15. Hey, that's also doubling your victories, which clearly means the world.

This is actually a fair point. It's not doubling the victories that is important, it's increasing the number of wins by 4 games that is significant. I think most people would say that increasing a team's win total by 4 games year-over-year is showing progress. Whether a team goes from 4 wins to 8 wins, or goes from 8 wins to 12 wins, both are showing progress by increasing the win total by 4.

Stout is right in saying that just doubling the win total isn't a sign of progress. PACardsFan rationale that "doubling" wins is always progress may be faulty logic, but I agree with him that increasing the win total from 4 to 8 is definitely progress, and shouldn't be discounted.

 

[kerouac9]

This is actually a fair point. It's not doubling the victories that is important, it's increasing the number of wins by 4 games that is significant. I think most people would say that increasing a team's win total by 4 games year-over-year is showing progress. Whether a team goes from 4 wins to 8 wins, or goes from 8 wins to 12 wins, both are showing progress by increasing the win total by 4.

Stout is right in saying that just doubling the win total isn't a sign of progress. PACardsFan rationale that "doubling" wins is always progress may be faulty logic, but I agree with him that increasing the win total from 4 to 8 is definitely progress, and shouldn't be discounted.

I don't think that's necessarily a big deal, either. Someone upthread said it, but the center of gravity pulls all teams toward 8-9 or 9-8. I'd expand that to 7-10 or 10-7. 12 of the 32 NFL teams fell within that band last season (including four playoff teams).

Winning four games in 2023 was a choice made by Monti and (probably to a lesser extent) Gannon. The Cards bubbled back up to (sub-)mediocrity basically by having Kyler Murray for 17 games. That doesn't show any major personnel acumen or innovation by the front office.

In fact, you can make the reasonable argument that we perhaps underperformed in 2024. According to PFF, our expected wins was 9.0. We had above-average units on offense and defense (excepting yards allowed).

Joeshmo used to say that it's harder to get from 8 wins to 10 wins than it is to get from 6 wins to 8 (this was back in the 16-game schedule days). I think that's correct. If the Cards managed to go from 8 to 12 wins this season, it would be a big accomplishment. I think it will take significantly more effort to get there than we put in to last offseason.

 

[Chopper0080]

I won’t disagree with this. 2025 is a tell tale season for the Cardinals. I’m a lot more optimistic about 2025 than a lot of the whiners on this board are.

Happier to be a board whiner who consistently complains about not being a relevant franchise than a board clown who shills hope and then laments ownership and history depending on which way the wind is blowing. Miss me with your holier than thou fan image of yourself.

 

[kerouac9]

Happier to be a board whiner who consistently complains about not being a relevant franchise than a board clown who shills hope and then laments ownership and history depending on which way the wind is blowing. Miss me with your holier than thou fan image of yourself.

I don't know if this is super-helpful for the tone of the board. We're two weeks into the offseason.

I've taken the tack of just reporting the ad hominem attacks and moving on.

 

[oaken1]

I don't know if this is super-helpful for the tone of the board. We're two weeks into the offseason.

I've taken the tack of just reporting the ad hominem attacks and moving on.

LOL, right? Because we all know its all downhill from now til august...with an occasional joyous blip for a coveted FA or draft pick.
This board is like a drug addict on a long detox

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is actually a fair point. It's not doubling the victories that is important, it's increasing the number of wins by 4 games that is significant. I think most people would say that increasing a team's win total by 4 games year-over-year is showing progress. Whether a team goes from 4 wins to 8 wins, or goes from 8 wins to 12 wins, both are showing progress by increasing the win total by 4.

Stout is right in saying that just doubling the win total isn't a sign of progress. PACardsFan rationale that "doubling" wins is always progress may be faulty logic, but I agree with him that increasing the win total from 4 to 8 is definitely progress, and shouldn't be discounted.

Only issue with this is it’s not just winning four more games after one season. It’s winning four more games after two seasons. And those were two seasons where there were very good FAs and we had a booty of draft picks to improve ourselves.

Use that reality as an indicator and you’re looking at a 10-7 borderline playoff also ran this season. That just isn’t impressive to me in the least.

 

[Stout]

This is actually a fair point. It's not doubling the victories that is important, it's increasing the number of wins by 4 games that is significant. I think most people would say that increasing a team's win total by 4 games year-over-year is showing progress. Whether a team goes from 4 wins to 8 wins, or goes from 8 wins to 12 wins, both are showing progress by increasing the win total by 4.

Stout is right in saying that just doubling the win total isn't a sign of progress. PACardsFan rationale that "doubling" wins is always progress may be faulty logic, but I agree with him that increasing the win total from 4 to 8 is definitely progress, and shouldn't be discounted.

Sure, it's progress. That's undeniable. It isn't any great progress, though. It's a league where this is the norm. Sure, we added four wins, but melted down, had an awful roster, didn't make the playoffs, have huge question marks at QB, 3/5 of our OL gone, and barely anything in the cupboard on defense. So, I'm not taking a lot of comfort in progress where this is the state of the team heading into year 3 in a league built for swift returns to the playoffs.

 

[Stout]

I don't know if this is super-helpful for the tone of the board. We're two weeks into the offseason.

I've taken the tack of just reporting the ad hominem attacks and moving on.

It's not helpful for posters to be jackholes to other posters, and yet they are. No harm in pointing out the hypocrisy. Board tone can be helped by people not being jackholes in the first place.

 

[kerouac9]

It's not helpful for posters to be jackholes to other posters, and yet they are. No harm in pointing out the hypocrisy. Board tone can be helped by people not being jackholes in the first place.

Yeah but doubling the number of jackhole posts pollutes the board and not change how PACard posts. Maybe the mods finally doing something about him would.

Otherwise we’ll just continue to avoid the five-day breaks he gives himself after losses before coming in and urging everyone to trust the process.

 

[football karma]

I think there are legitimate reasons to be optimistic for the 2025 season for the Cards even before one offseason move.

while the sample size is small:

I think the coaching staff is competent, maybe upper half.

I think Monti is competent enough to build a roster that puts the Cards in the 10-win range that gets you in the playoffs, but probably doesnt threaten to get to a conference championship game.

so this offseason for me is seeing if Monti can create a roster that, with reasonable health, can make a conference champ game.

 

[BirdGangThing]

it's year 3 man - monti stripped the roster upon arrival - including zach allen - monti passed up on acquiring the best edges (including will anderson) available in not one but two drafts

if we don't get at least one premier edge rusher this year then monti's time is coming near - straight up

 

[Stout]

it's year 3 man - monti stripped the roster upon arrival - including zach allen - monti passed up on acquiring the best edges (including will anderson) available in not one but two drafts

if we don't get at least one premier edge rusher this year then monti's time is coming near - straight up

If we can't get that edge this year his ass needs to be canned. That would be a critical and unforgivable error. And that is a bare minimum requirement, and not the only one.

 

[Stout]

I think there are legitimate reasons to be optimistic for the 2025 season for the Cards even before one offseason move.

while the sample size is small:

I think the coaching staff is competent, maybe upper half.

I think Monti is competent enough to build a roster that puts the Cards in the 10-win range that gets you in the playoffs, but probably doesnt threaten to get to a conference championship game.

so this offseason for me is seeing if Monti can create a roster that, with reasonable health, can make a conference champ game.

Why?

 

[kerouac9]

Why?

I'd say because we won eight games with the fourth-youngest team in the NFL last season.

Ten wins in an eighteen-game season shouldn't be pie in the sky. It's a little bit of luck and a slightly easier schedule away.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I'd say because we won eight games with the fourth-youngest team in the NFL last season.

Ten wins in an eighteen-game season shouldn't be pie in the sky. It's a little bit of luck and a slightly easier schedule away.

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[football karma]

Why?

1. As k9 pointed out -- lots on players in their 1st and 2nd year in starting roles will get another year of experience. Going from year 1 to 3 is the greatest period of growth for a player.

2. The Cards were in the top third of the NFL in starter-games lost to injury. While there is no guarantee that things regress to a mean, an average experience with injuries will help.

3. Schedule. Far easier schedule, mostly from swapping the NFC South in 2025 vs the NFC North in 2024.

4. Continuity. Two years ago, Gannon was a first time HC, both coordinators were new to that role. They should be up the learning curve now. I also think another year of Qb / OC helps at the margin.

 

[DVontel]

If we can't get that edge this year his ass needs to be canned

Can you go more in-depth about this? How many sacks, pressures, TFLs, etc?

 

[Chopper0080]

Can you go more in-depth about this? How many sacks, pressures, TFLs, etc?

What is kinda funny is that neither Super Bowl team had a GREAT edge player/group. Same with the conference finals. Rousseau is good but not great. It is more about having a group of average to above average defensive front players and then one key dude like Chris Jones and Jalen Carter. It's why the idea of Nolen and Grant in round 1 is still VERY appealing to me despite the awfulness that is the AZ EDGE room. That group is actually kinda close. IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

I wish Nolen was 310 because there are a lot of similarities in his game to Jalen Carters.

 

[kerouac9]

What is kinda funny is that neither Super Bowl team had a GREAT edge player/group. Same with the conference finals.

Karlaftis in that second tier of edge players IMO