Cards rank LAST in rushing attempts

[Duckjake]

If everything you are saying is true, how did we get to the superbowl. If he is so lousy, how did he turn it around here? I am not going to pack it in with Whiz, you can type what ever you like but what were you typing when we were winning?

I wasn't around this forum then so I honestly don't know and am too lazy to look it up. If you were bashing Whiz while we were winning, I will listen to your views all day, if not, it sounds like the blame game. I still blame DA so I am guilty of the blame game as well.

Side note, if you design me a avatar with a cardinal on a dogs head in the desert, I will be for ever indebted to you.

He was. Thought CKW was nuts for benching Edge for Hightower.

 

[desertdawg]

He was. Thought CKW was nuts for benching Edge for Hightower.

Kudos and my apologies then. Insert foot to mouth. I woulda benched Edges old ass for Hightower too.

 

[Stout]

Just reviewed the first 2 games of the year...

Rams: 16 Pass Attempts, 16 Rush Attempts

Falcons: 11 Pass Attemtps, 10 Rush Attempts

I might have some time later this afternoon to review the rest of the season, however, these two games seem to suggest Wolf might have been onto something...

Do pass attempts count sacks? A lot of times those are shoved into rushing attempts, and that would skew the stats. A lot, with us.

 

[NJCardFan]

Do pass attempts count sacks? A lot of times those are shoved into rushing attempts, and that would skew the stats. A lot, with us.

Yes, sacks count as passing attempts. This is why QB rushing numbers tend to be skewed. If a QB scrambles and is tacked behind the LOS, it's a sack and the lost yardage goes against the passing numbers. If he crosses the LOS for even 1 yard, it's a rush.

As for how we got to a Super Bowl? You do remember we had an offensive coordinator named Todd Haley, right? Since Whiz took over the play calling, he has had some head scratchers. One game that comes to mind was last seasons Jacksonville game. We were up but JAX was starting to mount a little comback. At 7 minutes left, it was 31-17. Not a blowout by any stretch and as the Minnesota game this season taught us, anything can happen. So, we get the ball with 7 minutes left and this is the ensuing play calls with Leinart now in at QB, from our 20:

Leinart pass incomplete to Becht.
Leinart complete to LSH for no gain.
Leinart incomplete deep left for Butters...er...Urban.
Graham punts.

Not 1 run. 3 straight passes, only 1 keeping the clock going but he passes again and the clock stops. Total elapsed game time, 54 seconds. JAX gets the ball back and Gerrard hits a 34 yard pass into our territory, on the 28. Thankfully the defense made a stand. And we get the ball back then Whiz decided discretion is the better part of valor and runs the ball.

The thing is, Whiz's playcalling is to not win the game but not to lose. This is no way to coach. And if you're going to pass alot, why does he not believe in bubble screens, quick slants, or quick outs? 3rd and 1, he goes down field. Ugh, he drives me nuts.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Do pass attempts count sacks? A lot of times those are shoved into rushing attempts, and that would skew the stats. A lot, with us.

Yes, the passing attempts include sacks.. which further K-9's point about the predictability of the first-down play calling...

 

[Duckjake]

I wonder how many teams have ever finished 1st in passing attempts and yards and last in rushing attempts in yards in the same season (2005) and then finished 2nd in passing attempts and yards and last in rushing attempts and yards just 3 seasons later (2008).

Probably more common than I think but it is still yet another fun Cardinals statistic.

 

[D-Dogg]

Beanie Wells and his fragile self as well as his 3 YPC needs to just ****.

3.5 and climbing. 4.5 last season. 4.8 in the KC game. You can ease off the gas pedal on Beanie, bro.

Tim has been balling hard though - super impressive season for Tower. We have two good backs, but our QB can't keep drives alive.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Kudos and my apologies then. Insert foot to mouth. I woulda benched Edges old ass for Hightower too.

Would you have benched Hightower for Edge's old ass when the playoff's rolled around because you went through five weeks without a running game? We all know how that brilliant Whiz decision played out.

 

[TJ]

Would you have benched Hightower for Edge's old ass when the playoff's rolled around because you went through five weeks without a running game? We all know how that brilliant Whiz decision played out.

James' attitude sucked that last year and his production was not worthy of praise. Although his YPA was higher than Timmy's, Timmy had more of a knack for the endzone and at least tried.

Additionally, we saw Kurt check off so many runs to pass plays. In summary, talking about our run game in 2008 is futile.

 

[earthsci]

Would you have benched Hightower for Edge's old ass when the playoff's rolled around because you went through five weeks without a running game? We all know how that brilliant Whiz decision played out.

Played out great. Our rushing improved for the playoffs. Better than when Edge was running the ball at the beginning of the season. Whiz did one of two things that you undoubtedly will deny even though there really is no denying it. He either put Edge on the bench to rest him for the playoff run, but that would require him planning that and only a good coach would do that. The other option is that he did make a mistake but came to recognize it so he adjusted. That would require him to not be as stubborn as many make him out to be.

 

[azsouthendzone]

James' attitude sucked that last year and his production was not worthy of praise. Although his YPA was higher than Timmy's, Timmy had more of a knack for the endzone and at least tried.

Additionally, we saw Kurt check off so many runs to pass plays. In summary, talking about our run game in 2008 is futile.

Whiz debate aside, don't try to make an argument that the offense was better with Hightower over Edge in 2008. It was not at any point. Edge was a threat to gain positive yards. Tim couldn't find a hole. Edge didn't see the field for one play during a stretch where the Cards were in shambles because they became absolutely one dimensional. The offense clicked before he was benched and the second Edge was reinserted they came back alive. You know it and I know it. The Hightower games were the most brutal of the whole season and no matter how bad it got, Whizzy had to be the big man on campus. That is a fact. Edge is winner and the only RB in AZ to get 1,000 yards back to back. Side note, his wife was dying of cancer the whole season. I'm not shocked that Edge didn't bend over with praise for Whisenhunt's childish mind games in that situation.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Played out great. Our rushing improved. Whiz did one of two things that you undoubtedly will deny even though there really is no denying it. He either put Edge on the bench to rest him for the playoff run, but that would require him planning that and only a good coach would do that. The other option is that he did make a mistake but came to recognize it so he adjusted. That would require him to not be as stubborn as many make him out to be.

That is a convenient, often used, pro-Whiz line. Resting him....come on.

He did realize he made a mistake. He knew the stakes and what the team was capable of in the playoffs with Edge and without and adjusted. You know damn well he knew they were one and done with the status quo. But he doesn't deserve praise for his antics and stubbornness that contributed to the whole mess.

He should have learned from that debacle with the QB situation this year but he just couldn't help himself.

I have a feeling 2011 Whiz will be a little different after this humbling experience. At least I hope.

 

[earthsci]

I have a feeling 2011 Whiz will be a little different after this humbling experience. At least I hope.

I do too. I like him. You don't but I know that you and I both want the same thing, for the Cardinals to succeed. He's made mistakes this year that he needs to fix and not make again.

 

[TJ]

Whiz debate aside, don't try to make an argument that the offense was better with Hightower over Edge in 2008. It was not at any point. Edge was a threat to gain positive yards. Tim couldn't find a hole. Edge didn't see the field for one play during a stretch where the Cards were in shambles because they became absolutely one dimensional. The offense clicked before he was benched and the second Edge was reinserted they came back alive. You know it and I know it. The Hightower games were the most brutal of the whole season and no matter how bad it got, Whizzy had to be the big man on campus. That is a fact. Edge is winner and the only RB in AZ to get 1,000 yards back to back. Side note, his wife was dying of cancer the whole season. I'm not shocked that Edge didn't bend over with praise for Whisenhunt's childish mind games in that situation.

Thought you wanted to keep Whis out of it. "Big man on campus?" "Childish mind games?" Okie dokie. And no its not a fact. That is your biased, baseless opinion. I cannot believe you continue to throw the man under the bus, even during his 2008 season where he took the damn team to the Superbowl. This is called nit picking. Just stop. You are killing your cred.

At any rate. Edge was a no call/no show at one or more practices. Why reward that behavior? Additionally, he wasnt 100% devoted to the team. Why play someone who knew he was a lame duck? As for his wife. That was a tragic event. But if that was overwhelming, he should have a) tried to keep his focus on the field during practice and games (there are plenty of sports psychologist at the Cardinals' disposal who are trained to help in these situations) or b) withdrew himself from the team.

The Cards were one dimensional all season, so what's your point in arguing about RBs? Timmy did have 10 Tds that season. The most our running game produced was in goal line situations and 3rd and 4th and short. The offense might have been better w/ edge but his sub 4 ypc really isnt impressive. Timmy's numbers were skewed because of his short yardage runs. They could have been just as high as Edge's in different packages. Ask anyone on the team that season. They would agree. His TD #s are all you need.

Our run game was essentially useless and no defense respected it anyway. It was all passing. Three 1000 yard receivers proves my point. Take that away and our offense would have been completely inept.

 

[Stout]

Yes, sacks count as passing attempts. This is why QB rushing numbers tend to be skewed. If a QB scrambles and is tacked behind the LOS, it's a sack and the lost yardage goes against the passing numbers. If he crosses the LOS for even 1 yard, it's a rush.

They might have counted sacks as pass attempts for the purpose of this particular research project, but sacks are definitely not pass attempts. If a QB is sacked it is not counted as an incompletion, thus it was not a pass attempt. You are correct, though, in that sack yardage doesn't count against rushing yards for a QB.

 

[kerouac9]

They might have counted sacks as pass attempts for the purpose of this particular research project, but sacks are definitely not pass attempts. If a QB is sacked it is not counted as an incompletion, thus it was not a pass attempt. You are correct, though, in that sack yardage doesn't count against rushing yards for a QB.

But it's a passing play call. That's why it counted. I also counted negative (or positive) rushing yards by QBs.

 

[nashman]

Give it up azendzone some of these guys love whiz so damn much they make all the excuses in the world for him. Benching Edge was the wrong move I said so when he did it and stuck with that opinion until the moron finally had to swallow his pride and start him because Timmy was NOT getting the job done. And we all know how it turned out shocker we had a run game and rode it through the playoffs all the way to the SB. And knock Edge all you want he was a major factor of us even getting to the SB!

Whiz needs to man up and take some responsibility for this crap he has given us, the playcalling sucks, the QB sucks, the DC sucks, the OC sucks...oh wait thats Whiz ok yeah he sucks right now! Until he stops with the system is working crap and laying blame on the players and accepts that HE is to blame for this joke of a team we are fielding right now! Freakin clown even if Leinart was banging your daughter and you hated him you don't just cut the best QB on the team that has been here for years and I dont care what any of you say, has to without question have a better understanding of the offense and what we do than 2 rookies and DA whom seems to try and fire the first read everytime. Dude stares down receivers, doesn't look off anyone but I guess it doesn't matter when you can't throw it where it needs to be anyway!

I can't believe our coaching staff or GM for that matter did not do some homework on this wreck of a QB....geesus get angry just thinking about how stupid this whole situation is....THANKS WHIZ! YOU ROCK YOUR THE BEST COACH EVER!

 

[TJ]

Give it up azendzone some of these guys love whiz so damn much they make all the excuses in the world for him. Benching Edge was the wrong move I said so when he did it and stuck with that opinion until the moron finally had to swallow his pride and start him because Timmy was NOT getting the job done. And we all know how it turned out shocker we had a run game and rode it through the playoffs all the way to the SB. And knock Edge all you want he was a major factor of us even getting to the SB!

Whiz needs to man up and take some responsibility for this crap he has given us, the playcalling sucks, the QB sucks, the DC sucks, the OC sucks...oh wait thats Whiz ok yeah he sucks right now! Until he stops with the system is working crap and laying blame on the players and accepts that HE is to blame for this joke of a team we are fielding right now! Freakin clown even if Leinart was banging your daughter and you hated him you don't just cut the best QB on the team that has been here for years and I dont care what any of you say, has to without question have a better understanding of the offense and what we do than 2 rookies and DA whom seems to try and fire the first read everytime. Dude stares down receivers, doesn't look off anyone but I guess it doesn't matter when you can't throw it where it needs to be anyway!

I can't believe our coaching staff or GM for that matter did not do some homework on this wreck of a QB....geesus get angry just thinking about how stupid this whole situation is....THANKS WHIZ! YOU ROCK YOUR THE BEST COACH EVER!

I said this earlier. You arent going to see many coaches publicly take responsibility for their transgressions. But don't think that Whis is oblivious to what's going on. Whis tried to address the QB situation midway through, but Hall couldnt answer the bell, so we're stuck with POS Anderson until the end of the season.

The changes that need to be made are too abundant to handle mid season. We need a new QB, continuity on the O-Line, and new coordinators. If we can hit those areas successfully, we are back to respectability.

To be honest, you have to give a coach an offseason or two to rectify the situation, especially a guy like Whisenhunt. His results are indisputable and is experiencing his first losing season of his HC career. Other big name coaches such as Cowher, Parcels and Fischer have had one or more disappointing seasons and needed an offseason to reassess the system and make adjustments. It'll happen. I still think Whis is good enough to get it done. And if he doesnt, then the only think that needs to be assessed is his future employment. But expect him to be on board for at least two more seasons after this.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I said this earlier. You arent going to see many coaches publicly take responsibility for their transgressions. But don't think that Whis is oblivious to what's going on. Whis tried to address the QB situation midway through, but Hall couldnt answer the bell, so we're stuck with POS Anderson until the end of the season.

The changes that need to be made are too abundant to handle mid season. We need a new QB, continuity on the O-Line, and new coordinators. If we can hit those areas successfully, we are back to respectability.

To be honest, you have to give a coach an offseason or two to rectify the situation, especially a guy like Whisenhunt. His results are indisputable and is experiencing his first losing season of his HC career. Other big name coaches such as Cowher, Parcels and Fischer have had one or more disappointing seasons and needed an offseason to reassess the system and make adjustments. It'll happen. I still think Whis is good enough to get it done. And if he doesnt, then the only think that needs to be assessed is his future employment. But expect him to be on board for at least two more seasons after this.

Agreed. I think most of the posters calling for Whis' head are either overrating his draft input or are overrating the talent on this team. We have gaping holes at key positions, and imo, won despite these gaping holes the past few years.

With the loss of Kurt Warner, a surefire Hall of Fame QB, we no longer had a dominate passing game that scared offensive coordinators. I do fault Whisenhunt with his handling of the Leinart situation, but the alternatives out there as far as a back up QB were Anderson and a bunch of other buffoons.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Agreed. I think most of the posters calling for Whis' head are either overrating his draft input or are overrating the talent on this team. We have gaping holes at key positions, and imo, won despite these gaping holes the past few years.

With the loss of Kurt Warner, a surefire Hall of Fame QB, we no longer had a dominate passing game that scared offensive coordinators. I do fault Whisenhunt with his handling of the Leinart situation, but the alternatives out there as far as a back up QB were Anderson and a bunch of other buffoons.

Why insert logic when you can bleat the same stupidity ad nauseum like the anti-Whiz crew?

 

[nashman]

First let me say I al not anti whiz, I would just like to hear him say or take some responsibility for his actions. He defers the blame onto the players which in the long run could really backfire. Just say it I made some mistakes and I will do everything in my power to fix the issues. I have a real problem with people who just constantly defer blame like it's not their fault. Just because I point out obvious bone head decisions he makes doesn't mean I don't realize he is tue best hc we have had for along time. He just needs to man up and fire his buddy at DC and also bring in a real OC and stop trying to do it himself. Hopefully he will make some better decisions and get back on track.

 

[Krangodnzr]

First let me say I al not anti whiz, I would just like to hear him say or take some responsibility for his actions. He defers the blame onto the players which in the long run could really backfire. Just say it I made some mistakes and I will do everything in my power to fix the issues. I have a real problem with people who just constantly defer blame like it's not their fault. Just because I point out obvious bone head decisions he makes doesn't mean I don't realize he is tue best hc we have had for along time. He just needs to man up and fire his buddy at DC and also bring in a real OC and stop trying to do it himself. Hopefully he will make some better decisions and get back on track.

People aren't executing. Just like Adrian Wilson stated, that is painfully obvious.

It's the same schemes that took us to the Super Bowl, 1 NFC Championship, and 2 NFC West Championships. This isn't a case of all of a sudden Whis is an idiot; this is a case of players NOT executing the scheme successfully.

Whis has made some mistakes, yes, but he's also playing with a half full deck so those mistakes are magnified substantially.

Our talent on defense is subpar, some of the worst in the league IMO, it's hard to judge how good or how bad Davis is.

 

[Evil Ash]

People aren't executing. Just like Adrian Wilson stated, that is painfully obvious.

It's the same schemes that took us to the Super Bowl, 1 NFC Championship, and 2 NFC West Championships. This isn't a case of all of a sudden Whis is an idiot; this is a case of players NOT executing the scheme successfully.

Whis has made some mistakes, yes, but he's also playing with a half full deck so those mistakes are magnified substantially.

Our talent on defense is subpar, some of the worst in the league IMO, it's hard to judge how good or how bad Davis is.

I agree to a certain extent. Talent is an issue especially at certain key positions namely Qb and OLB.

However scheme has also become a problem.

On offense, Whiz hasn't adjusted to the players around him. We were built to be a more run based attack. Meaning we should be running more than we are passing. However we still pass just as often as we did last year even though QB is a major issue. We just give up on the run game way too quickly.

On defense, we haven't adjusted at all. Our scheme was exposed toward the end of last season when we gave up 90 points in the playoffs and that was with more talent. The same holes (and some newer holes due to lack of talent) in his scheme are being exposed again

Football is a game of adjustments and quite frankly our coaching staff just isn't doing it. Talent is a problem but its not even close to being the only one

 

[Pariah]

Our talent on defense is subpar, some of the worst in the league IMO, it's hard to judge how good or how bad Davis is.

I'm not sure I agree with this as a blanket statement. I think we're extremely deficient at LB, and that's a recipe for disaster in a 3-4 scheme. But along the line we have some very, very good talent; we're also not too shabby at the starting positions in the secondary--Wilson is a liability in coverage, but you have to know that and account for it.

Penderghast, for all his faults, knew how to play to the personnel strengths. Personally, I wish he was still here instead of Davis.

But you may be right in not knowing what we have in Davis. A 3-4 defense without LBs is like drinking non-alcoholic beer. Looks good on the shelf, but doesn't do the job.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm not sure I agree with this as a blanket statement. I think we're extremely deficient at LB, and that's a recipe for disaster in a 3-4 scheme. But along the line we have some very, very good talent; we're also not too shabby at the starting positions in the secondary--Wilson is a liability in coverage, but you have to know that and account for it.

Penderghast, for all his faults, knew how to play to the personnel strengths. Personally, I wish he was still here instead of Davis.

But you may be right in not knowing what we have in Davis. A 3-4 defense without LBs is like drinking non-alcoholic beer. Looks good on the shelf, but doesn't do the job.

LOL, I forgot how anal this board can be at times!

When 1 of your 3 major personnel groups of your defense is terrible, your defensive talent is going to be subpar. Especially when it's the d-line in a 4-3 and the LBs in a 3-4. Additionally, our secondary isn't even good; We have 1 good corner (DRC), one adequate one (Toler), a pretty good FS, and an extremely flawed SS.