Cards say offers for trade down are picking up

[BACH]

Who plays LT in this scenario? Has the play OT and OG and then move to OT scenario ever worked? (real question)

Several times.

 

[Krangodnzr]

They said on Cards Underground that fans are calling the front desk at Cardinals HQ to weigh in. Probably a little extreme.

I still think that J.J. McCarthy is a false flag. I think Jayden Daniels might be, also. I think what likely happens is we trade back, miss out on the top 3 WRs, pick up a first in 2025, and take Quinton Mitchell (DB, Toledo), Troy Fautanu (OT, Washington), or Dallas Turner (Edge, Alabama).

DYK that Laiatu Latu (Edge, UCLA) is a rugby guy, and said he'd prefer rugby to gridiron football if the money were the same? I could see that rubbing this group the wrong way.

I read an article today that posits that most of the McCarthy hype is being generated by none other than Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh would absolutely love to trade down and fleece a QB desperate team while adding an OL.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Who ya taking at #11 if the top-10 goes as such:

(in no order)
Caleb Williams
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
JJ McCarthy
Marvin Harrison Jr
Malik Nabers
Rome Odunze
Dallas Turner
Quinyon Mitchell
Joe Alt

I'm probably going Jared Verse.

 

[GatorAZ]

I'm probably going Jared Verse.

Is Chop a top-10 pick in 2025 if he goes back to Penn St for another year? He’s 26 months younger than Verse…

 

[oaken1]

Is Chop a top-10 pick in 2025 if he goes back to Penn St for another year? He’s 26 months younger than Verse…

If he had a breakout season he would probably be pick of the litter next year.
But he has a first round grade now. It's risky to gamble a 14-15 sack season against an injury when he is nearly guaranteed top 40 right now

 

[Stout]

If he had a breakout season he would probably be pick of the litter next year.
But he has a first round grade now. It's risky to gamble a 14-15 sack season against an injury when he is nearly guaranteed top 40 right now

Especially given he couldn't sack the QB much in college lol He isn't on the hype train--he is the conductor.

 

[oaken1]

Especially given he couldn't sack the QB much in college lol He isn't on the hype train--he is the conductor.

Yeah but he's young. Another year in college and the sacks would have come.
Physical maturity shows out in college when you have a 23 year old going against a 20 year old... Just look at Verse

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah but he's young. Another year in college and the sacks would have come.
Physical maturity shows out in college when you have a 23 year old going against a 20 year old... Just look at Verse

I love his talent but going into the season with two raw and undersized edges in Chop/Ojulari is dangerous. If Latu’s neck doesn’t give him any issues he’ll be productive for a long time.

 

[oaken1]

I love his talent but going into the season with two raw and undersized edges in Chop/Ojulari is dangerous. If Latu’s neck doesn’t give him any issues he’ll be productive for a long time.

It's is. But you don't draft players for their rookie season. You draft them for what they will be in three years. Everything prior to that is gravy.

But it is also why an underclassman that consistently shows out is so valuable. A 20 year old that leads or is at the top of the nation for his position has a high probability of being an all pro by the time he hits 25 . I would use a first round pick on a 21 year old "third best" pass rusher way before I would a top two pass rusher that's 23.

 

[kerouac9]

I love his talent but going into the season with two raw and undersized edges in Chop/Ojulari is dangerous. If Latu’s neck doesn’t give him any issues he’ll be productive for a long time.

Dangerous for what? Our pursuit of finishing between 8 and 15 in the 2025 NFL draft?

We still have Collins and Gardeck; maybe Thomas shows something in camp?

 

[Phrazbit]

Who ya taking at #11 if the top-10 goes as such:

(in no order)
Caleb Williams
Drake Maye
Jayden Daniels
JJ McCarthy
Marvin Harrison Jr
Malik Nabers
Rome Odunze
Dallas Turner
Quinyon Mitchell
Joe Alt

Cyanide.

 

[Stout]

It's is. But you don't draft players for their rookie season. You draft them for what they will be in three years. Everything prior to that is gravy.

But it is also why an underclassman that consistently shows out is so valuable. A 20 year old that leads or is at the top of the nation for his position has a high probability of being an all pro by the time he hits 25 . I would use a first round pick on a 21 year old "third best" pass rusher way before I would a top two pass rusher that's 23.

Not in the modern NFL in the first round. Those guys have to start and be solid right away or you'll constantly be churning the roster and never winning anything. The days of drafting a guy in the 1st and sitting them a few seasons to develop are looooong gone. And Chop is going in the 1st round.

 

[oaken1]

Not in the modern NFL in the first round. Those guys have to start and be solid right away or you'll constantly be churning the roster and never winning anything. The days of drafting a guy in the 1st and sitting them a few seasons to develop are looooong gone. And Chop is going in the 1st round.

In the first you expect the players to produce sooner. But you still ain't drafting them for their rookie season.

 

[BACH]

Seeing a lot of Broncos trade rumors and mocks drafts Broncos trading up... I like it. Only drives up the price of #4

 

[Gambler]

Wow, there are so many trade possibilities it makes your head spin. And I am sure there will be many more including draft day. I am usually one for chucking the norm and going for it. But this year is different. There are 32 NFL teams and the Cardinals have 3 of the top 35 picks, including #4 which could giver us MHJ, possibly the best player in the draft. I don't have a clue what we will do, we shall see.

 

[Stout]

In the first you expect the players to produce sooner. But you still ain't drafting them for their rookie season.

El wrongo.

Wait, yeah, you're right, because the position that historically sat the most, quarterback, is certainly still a position that's allowed to sit and learn. Right? Right? ...right?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

These trade offers are all figments of some writer's imagination. Teams aren't talking anything close to specifics at this juncture. The most that has happened is Denver, Minnesota, Raiders, etc., may have called Monti and said we'd be interested in trading if the guy we want is available at 4.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

We still have Collins and Gardeck; maybe Thomas shows something in camp?

Thomas might not make the 53 this year (just ask Myjai Sanders how difficult is that).

 

[kerouac9]

These trade offers are all figments of some writer's imagination. Teams aren't talking anything close to specifics at this juncture. The most that has happened is Denver, Minnesota, Raiders, etc., may have called Monti and said we'd be interested in trading if the guy we want is available at 4.

100%. Also, just because a team is rumored to move doesn’t mean they’re moving to us.

 

[BACH]

These trade offers are all figments of some writer's imagination. Teams aren't talking anything close to specifics at this juncture. The most that has happened is Denver, Minnesota, Raiders, etc., may have called Monti and said we'd be interested in trading if the guy we want is available at 4.

Apart from the HC from both Minnesota and Denver have both confirmed that They have called Monti

 

[oaken1]

El wrongo.

Wait, yeah, you're right, because the position that historically sat the most, quarterback, is certainly still a position that's allowed to sit and learn. Right? Right? ...right?

I know you like to be a contrarian but lets slow it down.
when you draft a guy you expect him to improve,...yes??

now, as a GM...would you expect a guy to be exactly the same player in year three as he was in year one?? Or might you just maybe expect him to be better? Like maybe physical maturity, high paid nfl trainers, more experience, the coaching staff,...like all that paid off and the kid got better.
when you draft a guy you are drafting him for the right to have dibs on the player they will become, not the player they are...thats why they call them prospects... because the number of players who are full on nfl ready in their rookie season,...its not zero, but it is really close.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Apart from the HC from both Minnesota and Denver have both confirmed that They have called Monti

Isn't that what I said ? They haven't made any sort of deals or talked compensation. Just expressed interest in the pick if the player is available that they like.

 

[Stout]

I know you like to be a contrarian but lets slow it down.
when you draft a guy you expect him to improve,...yes??

now, as a GM...would you expect a guy to be exactly the same player in year three as he was in year one?? Or might you just maybe expect him to be better? Like maybe physical maturity, high paid nfl trainers, more experience, the coaching staff,...like all that paid off and the kid got better.
when you draft a guy you are drafting him for the right to have dibs on the player they will become, not the player they are...thats why they call them prospects... because the number of players who are full on nfl ready in their rookie season,...its not zero, but it is really close.

I agree with most of your post. I do not agree with "anything you get in the rookie year is gravy" for first-round picks. 2nd rounders either, really. Ojulari not being good really hurt us because we burned a top pick on him and our pass rush still sucked.

In the old days, the wisdom was 100 percent different. I used to rail against plugging holes with 1st rounders because expecting them to start day 1 was a recipe for disaster. The modern salary cap era and the way roster construction must be done these days, it's exactly the opposite. If you're getting little to nothing from a top pick--no gravy, if you will--you will struggle as a team, if not suck outright. Good teams or teams stacked with talent are much more likely to succeed in such a scenario, but especially if you take this mindset every year as a franchise, the team will just fall farther and farther behind.

 

[oaken1]

I agree with most of your post. I do not agree with "anything you get in the rookie year is gravy" for first-round picks. 2nd rounders either, really. Ojulari not being good really hurt us because we burned a top pick on him and our pass rush still sucked.

In the old days, the wisdom was 100 percent different. I used to rail against plugging holes with 1st rounders because expecting them to start day 1 was a recipe for disaster. The modern salary cap era and the way roster construction must be done these days, it's exactly the opposite. If you're getting little to nothing from a top pick--no gravy, if you will--you will struggle as a team, if not suck outright. Good teams or teams stacked with talent are much more likely to succeed in such a scenario, but especially if you take this mindset every year as a franchise, the team will just fall farther and farther behind.

But the cap is specifically designed to allow time for player development.
When the rookie cap was established the nflpa argued for a four year limit. The owners wanted a longer term of financial control. They based their argument on the demonstrated fact that it takes three full seasons for a player to develop...so the nflpa caved and gave the owners a fifth year option on first round picks so they could get two cost controlled years out of a premium pick. But since the owners argued so vehemently over three years to develop, the nflpa insisted the decision be made after the third year rather than after four like the owners wanted.
Time for player development is specifically built in to the contract for first round picks... That's why it's so damned frustrating when a guy doesn't show that he finally has it until his fourth year

 

[Stout]

But the cap is specifically designed to allow time for player development.
When the rookie cap was established the nflpa argued for a four year limit. The owners wanted a longer term of financial control. They based their argument on the demonstrated fact that it takes three full seasons for a player to develop...so the nflpa caved and gave the owners a fifth year option on first round picks so they could get two cost controlled years out of a premium pick. But since the owners argued so vehemently over three years to develop, the nflpa insisted the decision be made after the third year rather than after four like the owners wanted.
Time for player development is specifically built in to the contract for first round picks... That's why it's so damned frustrating when a guy doesn't show that he finally has it until his fourth year

It's less about the personal player development and more about roster building. There just isn't time to wait. Players will and should get better over the seasons, if they're good, but you can't draft a 1st rounder just to stash and develop now. They have to play, and if they're playing and you want to make the playoffs, they need to be playing relatively well. PJJ is a good example. He didn't blow anyone's doors off, but you're saying you would have been fine if he offered nothing last season and we gave him a few years to develop first. Well, I can pretty much guarantee we would've had the top pick in the draft if we got nothing out of PJJ last year. We HAD to have him play and do decent. Yeah, the rest of the roster sucked, so we still weren't good, but he's a part of the reason we won the games we did for sure.