Crimson Warrior
Dangerous Murray Zealot
wallyburger said:P.S. Miami actually won that NC.
Until the phantom call was made.
thats so weak wally. blaming it on the refs.
Cards will pass on best player in draft
- Thread starter Southpaw
- Start date
thats so weak wally. blaming it on the refs.
Stag beer and baked beans. It'll get ya every time.
WildBB
Yogi n da Bear
vikesfan said:
It might be higher than that. But right away I think he will have more impact than either Fitz or Gallery. Long term Fitz and Gallery definitely won't get swollen heads.
I am hearing some bad stuff about Taylor. He made big plays but he also let the other team get big plays. He was not very coachable. Likes to freelance. His workout was an example of his attitude more then anything. The dude is scaring me more and more every day.WildBB said:
OP
OP
vikesfan said:
The stuff you are hearing is from those scary voices in your head.
OP
OP
BuckeyeCardinal said:I'll give you a Tango response.
I understand your gloating. Hell, when your favorite team gets 1 Nat. Champ every century, you'll take it anyway you can get it. Did that ref get his golden parachute installment check this month?
azdad1978
Championship!!!!
wallyburger said:The stuff you are hearing is from those scary voices in your head.
Its just DG talking to him again with the help of ESP.
wallyburger said:ESPN just had a pre draft show. They proclaimed Sean Taylor as the best player in the draft. Went so far as to say, he could be all pro in rookie year. They rated only Gallery and Taylor as instant impact players who can't miss. I sure as hell hope Cards have same feeling instead of a friendship factor. Everyone wants to trade up for Gallery, so that leaves Taylor to Cards. Do It. Do It. Do It.
the constant reminder that Fitz was Green's ball boy bothers the hell out of me. I hope hope hope that has absolutely nothing to do with his draft choice. If fitz is that good fine! Ball boy-good friend-who cares?
dopleganger
Veteran
wallyburger said:The stuff you are hearing is from those scary voices in your head.
OP
OP
john h said:
Almost as bad as " Barry Bond's GODFATHER, Willie Mays. It's like Willie wasn't worth a crap until he baecame Bary Bonds' GODFATHER.
Like FITZ wouldn't be worth a crap if he wasn't DG's ball boy.
I don't think a person left in the Western Hemisphere hasn't heard that Fitz was DGs ball boy. Fitz needs to tell his dad to butt out and sportswriters to forget the DG attachment.
Zeno
Ancient
Other Opinions oh who the best is...
I am not sold on taking a safety at #3 and while ESPN may believe Taylor and Gallery are the best players in the draft not everyone agrees...take these articles from MSNBC
SALARY GUY
By Bob McCullough
NBCSports.com contributor
Updated: 1:33 p.m. ET April 21, 2004
What the Market Says: Larry Fitzgerald is a consensus No. 1 overall pick who may end up sliding a slot or two depending on what happens during the final jockeying for position on draft day, although even that kind of slippage seems unlikely. Eli Manning, meanwhile, has been steadily moving up the draft board, his rise fueled by a hot rumor that the New York Giants are negotiating a trade with the San Diego Chargers to move up and take Peyton’s little brother.
Either way, both players will end up in the top five and be well-compensated as a result. Both could end up negotiating long-term deals that go far beyond the usual money numbers for a No. 1 pick, a la Carson Palmer last year with the Bengals, but at the very least they’ll end up with a three-year deal that will put them in the $10 million-$12 million range.
What Salary Guy Says: Fitzgerald was a man among boys playing for Pitt in the Big East last year, dominating defenses despite the absence of a top-flight quarterback. He’s big, fast, smart and has great hands, as well as breakaway ability after the catch in the open field. As good as Mike Williams was for USC, Fitzgerald still stood head and shoulders above all the other wideouts in one of the best classes at this position in years.
As for his ability to change the complexion of his first NFL club, think Randy Moss or Terrell Owens with character. Fitzgerald may not post the big numbers in his first year if he lands with a struggling transition team like the Raiders, but he definitely has the talent to rev up an offense the way Moss and TO did, and its only a matter of time before the numbers come. He also seems like a solid candidate to keep fame and fortune in perspective once he becomes a top-level wideout, a trait that makes him that much more attractive and valuable as a number one pick.
Manning’s stock has been rising for several reasons: his combination of size, arm strength and throwing versatility, the family pedigree and his remarkable statistical consistency during his career at Ole Miss. The numerical consistency is especially impressive; Manning played for a team with a suspect defense early on, but he managed to keep his interception numbers down despite playing in numerous wide-open games in which he was forced to get his club up and down the field to keep the Rebels in games.
Despite his brilliance, Manning didn’t make the jump to the top five in the draft projections until the Giants rumor got started, partially because some clubs have become gun-shy about drafting statuesque pocket passers after watching the Chargers go through the Ryan Leaf fiasco. Manning also suffered from trying to live up to the impossible standards set by Peyton, as well as the perception that this year’s QB crop is down a notch compared to the abundance of talent at wideout and several other positions.
Moreover, there are small differences of opinion among experts about just how good Manning will be. Giants G.M. Ernie Accorsi, an excellent judge of talent, obviously sees Eli as a QB whose talent and savvy rivals that of Peyton and is looking to build around Manning once Kerry Collins begins to decline. But there are others who see him as an excellent pro QB who doesn’t quite warrant a top-five pick, especially if he lands with a team that can’t protect him. In short, a very good QB, but not a transcendent All-Pro caliber player.
The Bottom Line: Normally, comparisons between great QBs and wideouts are a no-brainer: take the quarterback because of his greater impact on the game, and because the wideout needs at least a good QB to get him the ball.
But Fitzgerald is the exception to the rule, a receiver with Moss-level talent and a better character and work ethic — he’s one of those rare superstars who comes along once every 5-10 years whose talent transcends the limitations of his position. He’s so good that it’s hard to imagine him not playing in a half-dozen Pro Bowls if he stays healthy, and that makes him the better long-term value, especially with the new NFL crackdown on DBs and linebackers trying to hold up wide receivers at and beyond the line of scrimmage.
Manning could end up being that good if he lands with the Giants, learns the ropes behind Collins for a year or two and then steps into an offense that features the likes of Jeremy Shockey and Amani Toomer.
But he could also face the same kinds of issues that hindered the development of Leaf and Drew Brees if he steps into a muddled situation like the one in San Diego, or a similar franchise that lacks a clear sense of direction from upper management. He also should be an excellent value; he just comes up just short in this comparison with Fitzgerald.
AND....
By Mike Celizic
NBCSports.com contributor
Updated: 2:14 p.m. ET April 20, 2004
The quarterback – Eli, son of Archie, brother of Peyton, will probably go first, because quarterbacks always do. But he’s neither the best player nor the surest pick in the 2004 NFL draft.
If you want that man, the player who can’t miss, the one who you know, barring injury, will be a star year after year for a decade or more, you have to go to the other end of the passing combination, to the man catching the balls. You have to go to Larry Fitzgerald.
And there’s the dilemma in the NFL draft. If you’re the biggest loser during the regular season, it’s usually because you have no quarterback. As a reward for being really, really bad, you get to take the best quarterback out there.
He’ll almost invariably look like the stud of studs when you pick him, big and strong and holding a slew of passing records at whatever school you took him from. There will be great rejoicing among your fans and congratulations from the media.
And then the season starts and it turns out the guy who was going to make it all better is Drew Brees or Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith or Tim Couch or Jeff George, all either No. 1 picks or taken near the top of the draft.
So if you’re Oakland and you’re picking second in this year’s draft, don’t feel bad. Let San Diego or whoever the Chargers trade the pick to, take Eli Manning. You can even wish them luck – after Brees and Leaf, they could use a little. Then take Larry Fitzgerald and congratulate yourself on your great luck in not having to take a quarterback.
Of course, if you’re the Raiders, you can also take Miami of Ohio's Ben Roethlisberger, the other top quarterback available. In which case you may well look back some day at Fitzgerald and wonder why you didn’t grab him.
Fitzgerald will succeed because he has great hands and a thorough understanding of the game. Not blessed with blazing speed, he has to know what he’s doing; he can’t simply outrun everyone to the ball but had to learn how to run routes and get open. Fitzgerald is plenty big at 225 pounds and he has incredible control of his body and he’s got springs in his legs. He may not outrun a corner, but he’ll get position on him, out-leap him and make the play.
There is one other receiver who can play immediately in this draft: Kellen Winslow Jr. Winslow, who can play tight end and run like a wideout, is the better athlete, but there are questions about his mental makeup and, despite his talent, he doesn’t have the numbers Fitzgerald has.
Fitzgerald had touchdown catches in 18 straight games. That’s nearly impossible to do in the pros, let alone college, especially when you’re not catching balls from one of the top quarterbacks in the country. That 18 straight tells it all. He just goes and gets the ball.
Fitzgerald is also a good citizen, despite the fact that his father is a sports editor. (In the business, we’d like to think because of that, but we know where we stand.) He’s not leaving college because he needs the money or thinks he’s too good for his team. He’s simply moving on to the next challenge because he’s ready for it.
So, yes, if you’ve got the No. 1 pick, you may feel obliged to take Manning or Roethlisberger. That’s understandable. Quarterbacks are the most valuable commodity in the game, and good ones are harder to find than even-tempered wolverines.
But quarterbacks are the biggest crapshoot in the game. Drafting one is like buying merchandise in unmarked cartons at a fire sale – all sales final. You’ve got no idea what’s inside the box. It could be something really great or it could be full of ashes.
There aren’t many sure shots in the NFL draft. What looked like great talent at every position has busted at one time or another – does anyone remember Ron Dayne?
But Fitzgerald isn’t going to be a bust. If ever there’s been a sure shot, this is the guy, the pick of the 2004 collegiate litter.
I am not sold on taking a safety at #3 and while ESPN may believe Taylor and Gallery are the best players in the draft not everyone agrees...take these articles from MSNBC
SALARY GUY
By Bob McCullough
NBCSports.com contributor
Updated: 1:33 p.m. ET April 21, 2004
What the Market Says: Larry Fitzgerald is a consensus No. 1 overall pick who may end up sliding a slot or two depending on what happens during the final jockeying for position on draft day, although even that kind of slippage seems unlikely. Eli Manning, meanwhile, has been steadily moving up the draft board, his rise fueled by a hot rumor that the New York Giants are negotiating a trade with the San Diego Chargers to move up and take Peyton’s little brother.
Either way, both players will end up in the top five and be well-compensated as a result. Both could end up negotiating long-term deals that go far beyond the usual money numbers for a No. 1 pick, a la Carson Palmer last year with the Bengals, but at the very least they’ll end up with a three-year deal that will put them in the $10 million-$12 million range.
What Salary Guy Says: Fitzgerald was a man among boys playing for Pitt in the Big East last year, dominating defenses despite the absence of a top-flight quarterback. He’s big, fast, smart and has great hands, as well as breakaway ability after the catch in the open field. As good as Mike Williams was for USC, Fitzgerald still stood head and shoulders above all the other wideouts in one of the best classes at this position in years.
As for his ability to change the complexion of his first NFL club, think Randy Moss or Terrell Owens with character. Fitzgerald may not post the big numbers in his first year if he lands with a struggling transition team like the Raiders, but he definitely has the talent to rev up an offense the way Moss and TO did, and its only a matter of time before the numbers come. He also seems like a solid candidate to keep fame and fortune in perspective once he becomes a top-level wideout, a trait that makes him that much more attractive and valuable as a number one pick.
Manning’s stock has been rising for several reasons: his combination of size, arm strength and throwing versatility, the family pedigree and his remarkable statistical consistency during his career at Ole Miss. The numerical consistency is especially impressive; Manning played for a team with a suspect defense early on, but he managed to keep his interception numbers down despite playing in numerous wide-open games in which he was forced to get his club up and down the field to keep the Rebels in games.
Despite his brilliance, Manning didn’t make the jump to the top five in the draft projections until the Giants rumor got started, partially because some clubs have become gun-shy about drafting statuesque pocket passers after watching the Chargers go through the Ryan Leaf fiasco. Manning also suffered from trying to live up to the impossible standards set by Peyton, as well as the perception that this year’s QB crop is down a notch compared to the abundance of talent at wideout and several other positions.
Moreover, there are small differences of opinion among experts about just how good Manning will be. Giants G.M. Ernie Accorsi, an excellent judge of talent, obviously sees Eli as a QB whose talent and savvy rivals that of Peyton and is looking to build around Manning once Kerry Collins begins to decline. But there are others who see him as an excellent pro QB who doesn’t quite warrant a top-five pick, especially if he lands with a team that can’t protect him. In short, a very good QB, but not a transcendent All-Pro caliber player.
The Bottom Line: Normally, comparisons between great QBs and wideouts are a no-brainer: take the quarterback because of his greater impact on the game, and because the wideout needs at least a good QB to get him the ball.
But Fitzgerald is the exception to the rule, a receiver with Moss-level talent and a better character and work ethic — he’s one of those rare superstars who comes along once every 5-10 years whose talent transcends the limitations of his position. He’s so good that it’s hard to imagine him not playing in a half-dozen Pro Bowls if he stays healthy, and that makes him the better long-term value, especially with the new NFL crackdown on DBs and linebackers trying to hold up wide receivers at and beyond the line of scrimmage.
Manning could end up being that good if he lands with the Giants, learns the ropes behind Collins for a year or two and then steps into an offense that features the likes of Jeremy Shockey and Amani Toomer.
But he could also face the same kinds of issues that hindered the development of Leaf and Drew Brees if he steps into a muddled situation like the one in San Diego, or a similar franchise that lacks a clear sense of direction from upper management. He also should be an excellent value; he just comes up just short in this comparison with Fitzgerald.
AND....
By Mike Celizic
NBCSports.com contributor
Updated: 2:14 p.m. ET April 20, 2004
The quarterback – Eli, son of Archie, brother of Peyton, will probably go first, because quarterbacks always do. But he’s neither the best player nor the surest pick in the 2004 NFL draft.
If you want that man, the player who can’t miss, the one who you know, barring injury, will be a star year after year for a decade or more, you have to go to the other end of the passing combination, to the man catching the balls. You have to go to Larry Fitzgerald.
And there’s the dilemma in the NFL draft. If you’re the biggest loser during the regular season, it’s usually because you have no quarterback. As a reward for being really, really bad, you get to take the best quarterback out there.
He’ll almost invariably look like the stud of studs when you pick him, big and strong and holding a slew of passing records at whatever school you took him from. There will be great rejoicing among your fans and congratulations from the media.
And then the season starts and it turns out the guy who was going to make it all better is Drew Brees or Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith or Tim Couch or Jeff George, all either No. 1 picks or taken near the top of the draft.
So if you’re Oakland and you’re picking second in this year’s draft, don’t feel bad. Let San Diego or whoever the Chargers trade the pick to, take Eli Manning. You can even wish them luck – after Brees and Leaf, they could use a little. Then take Larry Fitzgerald and congratulate yourself on your great luck in not having to take a quarterback.
Of course, if you’re the Raiders, you can also take Miami of Ohio's Ben Roethlisberger, the other top quarterback available. In which case you may well look back some day at Fitzgerald and wonder why you didn’t grab him.
Fitzgerald will succeed because he has great hands and a thorough understanding of the game. Not blessed with blazing speed, he has to know what he’s doing; he can’t simply outrun everyone to the ball but had to learn how to run routes and get open. Fitzgerald is plenty big at 225 pounds and he has incredible control of his body and he’s got springs in his legs. He may not outrun a corner, but he’ll get position on him, out-leap him and make the play.
There is one other receiver who can play immediately in this draft: Kellen Winslow Jr. Winslow, who can play tight end and run like a wideout, is the better athlete, but there are questions about his mental makeup and, despite his talent, he doesn’t have the numbers Fitzgerald has.
Fitzgerald had touchdown catches in 18 straight games. That’s nearly impossible to do in the pros, let alone college, especially when you’re not catching balls from one of the top quarterbacks in the country. That 18 straight tells it all. He just goes and gets the ball.
Fitzgerald is also a good citizen, despite the fact that his father is a sports editor. (In the business, we’d like to think because of that, but we know where we stand.) He’s not leaving college because he needs the money or thinks he’s too good for his team. He’s simply moving on to the next challenge because he’s ready for it.
So, yes, if you’ve got the No. 1 pick, you may feel obliged to take Manning or Roethlisberger. That’s understandable. Quarterbacks are the most valuable commodity in the game, and good ones are harder to find than even-tempered wolverines.
But quarterbacks are the biggest crapshoot in the game. Drafting one is like buying merchandise in unmarked cartons at a fire sale – all sales final. You’ve got no idea what’s inside the box. It could be something really great or it could be full of ashes.
There aren’t many sure shots in the NFL draft. What looked like great talent at every position has busted at one time or another – does anyone remember Ron Dayne?
But Fitzgerald isn’t going to be a bust. If ever there’s been a sure shot, this is the guy, the pick of the 2004 collegiate litter.
