Catch Rule Question

[Mitch]

I just spent several minutes studying the NFL rule book and still couldn't find an answer to the question of what a WR, TE or RB who catches a pass in the end zone needs to do to score a TD---I have always thought that they had to have full possession of the ball through the duration of the play and both feet down in the end zone.

However, it has always bugged me since the Cardinals' Super Bowl loss to the Steelers that Antonio Holmes made the catch in the corner of the end zone and got one foot down, but the second foot was pinned into the cleat of his first foot and thus touched in bounds.

In the recent game, it looked to me that Martavis Bryant caught the ball, got one foot down, was hit out of bounds by Tryann Mathieu and Bryant's hip hit the chalk (out of bounds) and his second foot never touches in bounds. Is that a legal TD catch? Do the feet actually have to touch in bounds or can they just be in bounds?

How about in this case---let's say the WR dives and catches the ball and lands out of bounds but his feet are still in bounds (even though they don't touch)---is it a TD as long as the feel are in bounds, even thought the WR's first contact with the ground is out of bounds?

I searched for these rules and couldn't find them specifically. Like I said I was always under the impression that it takes a clear catch (made all three way through the ground) and both feet touching in bounds.

I know they changed the rule that DBs can hit the WR out of bounds now, which I thought Mathieu successfully did---so why was Bryant's catch still a TD and there was no challenge or replay review?

 

[jbeecham]

There was no replay because it was in Pittsburgh.

Many on this board have pointed out that his left foot & left shin were down on the ground (before his butt came down out-of-bounds) so that's why it was a valid catch even though his right foot never comes down in-bounds & his butt lands half in-bounds & half out-of-bounds.

I guess a shin is equal to an elbow or knee or forearm? Is there nothing in the rule book clearly stating what body parts on the ground indicate that a player is down?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Mitch]

There was no replay because it was in Pittsburgh.

Many on this board have pointed out that his left foot & left shin were down on the ground (before his butt came down out-of-bounds) so that's why it was a valid catch even though his right foot never comes down in-bounds & his butt lands half in-bounds & half out-of-bounds.

I guess a shin is equal to an elbow or knee or forearm? Is there nothing in the rule book clearly stating what body parts on the ground indicate that a player is down?

I did see in the rules that if one knee is down in bounds on a clean catch, then it is a TD. But it sure didn't reference a shin. Why didn't BA challenge the ruling?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I did see in the rules that if one knee is down in bounds on a clean catch, then it is a TD. But it sure didn't reference a shin. Why didn't BA challenge the ruling?

He can't challenge because all scoring plays are already supposed to be getting reviewed. Thus it must have been reviewed, but wasn't deemed to need further review for some reason and that would be why there wasn't any major delay before the extra point.

 

[wa52lz]

I did see in the rules that if one knee is down in bounds on a clean catch, then it is a TD. But it sure didn't reference a shin. Why didn't BA challenge the ruling?

Cant challenge a scoring play. All scoring plays are "reviewed", remember

 

[Mitch]

He can't challenge because all scoring plays are already supposed to be getting reviewed. Thus it must have been reviewed, but wasn't deemed to need further review for some reason and that would be why there wasn't any major delay before the extra point.

Good point all TD are "supposed" to be reviewed---but I didn't even see BA complain or ask the officials for an explanation. Did anyone?

 

[Catfish]

Mitch and jbeecham------I have been contemplating that catch also, and it seems to me that if his shin was down, then the knee had to also be down, (unless there was some serious deformity as in a break of both the tibia and fibula). I have read that a knee down equals both feet down. That is the only reason that I can see that this pass was ruled completed. Since it was a scoring play, and there was serious concern over it, there seemingly should have been a review and an explanation given for the ruling.

 

[Mitch]

Cant challenge a scoring play. All scoring plays are "reviewed", remember

Yes, correct, but it still feels like it all happened so fast with the extra point coming so quickly---can anyone trust what is being reviewed? Look at the Lions/Seahawks debacle.

 

[Russ Smith]

I can't paste it as a pic it wants to be a whole webpage and ASFN won't post that.



https://twitter.com/NFL/status/655823618866188288?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Roll it all the way through so it stops at 53 seconds and you will see his left knee hits before he hits the backline with his butt.

Remarkable that he was able to do all that while getting hit and Floyd couldn't do it without being touched or having to jump up like that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Mitch and jbeecham------I have been contemplating that catch also, and it seems to me that if his shin was down, then the knee had to also be down, (unless there was some serious deformity as in a break of both the tibia and fibula). I have read that a knee down equals both feet down. That is the only reason that I can see that this pass was ruled completed. Since it was a scoring play, and there was serious concern over it, there seemingly should have been a review and an explanation given for the ruling.

The actual sequence was left foot(whole foot) right heel, then he falls with the left knee touching then the butt touches out of bounds.

If toes count as a foot in so does heel so he actually got 2 feet first then a knee.

 

[MadCardDisease]

From the rule book

Section 2 - Dead Ball

Article 1. Dead Ball Declared
An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:

1. when a runner is contacted by an opponent and touches the ground with any part of his body other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to advance; or
   
   Note: If, after contact by an opponent, any part of a runner’s leg above the ankle or any part of his arm above the wrist touches the ground, the runner is down.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch and jbeecham------I have been contemplating that catch also, and it seems to me that if his shin was down, then the knee had to also be down, (unless there was some serious deformity as in a break of both the tibia and fibula). I have read that a knee down equals both feet down. That is the only reason that I can see that this pass was ruled completed. Since it was a scoring play, and there was serious concern over it, there seemingly should have been a review and an explanation given for the ruling.

I just watched it again and what happens is that his foot touches and then his knee lands sideways in bounds---so you are absolutely correct.

Here are the highlights:

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[Mitch]

I can't paste it as a pic it wants to be a whole webpage and ASFN won't post that.



https://twitter.com/NFL/status/655823618866188288?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Roll it all the way through so it stops at 53 seconds and you will see his left knee hits before he hits the backline with his butt.

Remarkable that he was able to do all that while getting hit and Floyd couldn't do it without being touched or having to jump up like that.

You are absolutely correct---the knee does touch. Wow. Thank you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I did see in the rules that if one knee is down in bounds on a clean catch, then it is a TD. But it sure didn't reference a shin. Why didn't BA challenge the ruling?

his knee hit down before his butt hit the chalk.

 

[cardncubfan]

I can't paste it as a pic it wants to be a whole webpage and ASFN won't post that.



https://twitter.com/NFL/status/655823618866188288?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Roll it all the way through so it stops at 53 seconds and you will see his left knee hits before he hits the backline with his butt.

Remarkable that he was able to do all that while getting hit and Floyd couldn't do it without being touched or having to jump up like that.

Big difference in relationship to the white line.

 

[Russ Smith]

Big difference in relationship to the white line.

Yes one had the line on his left and his momentum going that way and stepped out. The other had the line in front of him with his momentum that way and then had to turn, jump and get the feet down and managed to do so.

Admittedly it's a different action Bryant was slowing because he was there and getting ready to jump, Floyd was running through to get the pass.

Still Floyd should have been able to get the foot down, NFL Wr's make catches MUCH tougher than that regularly, he himself has.