CBS player rankings

[sunsfn]

Here is the current player rankings by CBS sports.

s. f. #1 Shawn Marion #1 ******
s. g. # 10 Joe Johnson
c. # 24 Jake Voskuhl
p. g. #36 Howard Eisley, #49 Leandro Barbosa
p. f. #29 Amare Stoudemire

Overall rankings 1- 409
#4 Shawn Marion, #43 Joe Johnson, #155 Jake Voskuhl, #156 Amare SToudemire, #160 Howard Eisley, #174 Casey Jacobson, #222 Jahidi White, #229 Leandro Barbosa.

Rookies rankings 1-50
#19 Leandro Barbosa, #28 Zarko Cabarkapa, #48 Marciei Lampe.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/OVERALL

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by sunsfn
Here is the current player rankings by CBS sports.

s. f. #1 Shawn Marion #1 ******
s. g. # 10 Joe Johnson
c. # 24 Jake Voskuhl
p. g. #36 Howard Eisley, #49 Leandro Barbosa
p. f. #29 Amare Stoudemire

Overall rankings 1- 409
#4 Shawn Marion, #43 Joe Johnson, #155 Jake Voskuhl, #156 Amare SToudemire, #160 Howard Eisley, #174 Casey Jacobson, #222 Jahidi White, #229 Leandro Barbosa.

Rookies rankings 1-50
#19 Leandro Barbosa, #28 Zarko Cabarkapa, #48 Marciei Lampe.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/OVERALL

Shhh..Shawn Marion sucks

 

[scotsman13]

dang you mean someone who cant creat his own shot is ranked ahead of peja. no way just because he rebounds, get blocks, steals, and plays great defense isnt any reason that he show be ranked above a player who can shoot the lights out when he is force feed from his team.

 

[cardsunsfan]

sorry he shouldn't be ranked that high...who would you rather have? Dirk or maybe Jermaine O'Neal?

 

[sunsfn]

Here is the top 15 overall.
-------------------------------------------
1. Kevin Garnett, MIN
2. Tracy McGrady, ORL
3. Tim Duncan, SA
4. Shawn Marion, PHO
5. Peja Stojakovic, SAC
6. Paul Pierce, BOS
7. Stephon Marbury, NY
8. Jermaine O'Neal, IND
9. Zach Randolph, POR
10. Baron Davis, NO
11. Sam Cassell, MIN
12. Dirk Nowitzki, DAL
13. Michael Redd, MIL
14. Jason Kidd, NJ
15. Brad Miller, SAC

 

[Joe Mama]

I think it's great that Shawn Marion is #1 on that list. That doesn't mean that he is the best small forward in the game though. It means he puts a good all-around numbers.

BTW Shawn Marion is at best a "good" defender. He isn't "great".

I guess I just don't understand why everybody has to either love or hate Shawn Marion. I kinda figured by now most of us could agree that he's at least slightly overpaid (a few million dollars per season), but he's still a good player. He's also very likely to be part of this team for quite awhile.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Exactly Joe. He isn't vastly overpaid by any means. Sometimes you have to pay a premium to keep your players. There was a chance he could have walked, which would have been devestating.

Those 2-3 million a year won't affect this team THAT much in the long run. That is my point.

 

[sunsfn]

I also do not understand why some think Marion is just a good defender?

The other night they put him on Kevin Garnett and he did an excellent job. In the past coaches have put him on the other teams best offensive player and he did an excellent job.........

Overall Shawn Marion is an excellent player, and those that can not see this apparently do not watch enough basketball, or can not recognize good or bad without some sports writer or one bad game by a player saying he must not be a good player.

Yearly he ranks with the top player overall, and right now he is ranked the top s. f. in the game. I know those stats can change day to day, but we have an excellent player and people need to realize that.

 

[slinslin]

Shawn isn't a great defender. He is going for fakes way too easily.

Shawn has to play smarter and he has to finally improve in some areas like slashing, ball handling, going right...

When Marion has a defender infront of him he often blows it, wether it is on fastbreaks or in the halfcourt. Shawn is just not a smooth player he looks a little clumsy at some points.

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by Joe Mama


BTW Shawn Marion is at best a "good" defender. He isn't "great".

I think Marion's man D is above average but not great, and his help D is extremly good. Much the same can be said for Ben Wallace who is conisdered a great defender. How many SF do you consider better than Marion on D? Artest and Bowen are only 2 I can think of.

Also i agree that Marion is overpaid, but I don't think it's all that big a deal. The Collangelo's are willing to spend as long as its for a winner. Plus with a new CBA or changes to the current one forthcoming the penalty for being over the cap won't be as bad as it currently is. The only way I see Marion being shipped would be in a deal similar to Marbry's where we rid ourselves of other bad contracts and get picks and/or young prospects.

 

[scotsman13]

the thing that i think is even more shocking is that jj has moved into the 10th spot at shooting guard
1. Tracy McGrady, ORL
2. Paul Pierce, BOS
3. Michael Redd, MIL
4. Michael Finley, DAL
5. Vince Carter, TOR
6. Allen Iverson, PHI
7. Eddie Jones, MIA
8. Cuttino Mobley, HOU
9. Kobe Bryant, LAL
10. Joe Johnson, PHO

and this is counts jj whole year and not just since the trade. i would like to see what he has done sine the trade. but as it stands right now i would take jj over carter, jones and mobley. and place him about equal with michael redd.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm shocked about the ranking of Amare. Granted his stats are down this year, but he is a much better player than that listing.

 

[slinslin]

He missed like half of the games.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Exactly Joe. He isn't vastly overpaid by any means. Sometimes you have to pay a premium to keep your players. There was a chance he could have walked, which would have been devestating.

Those 2-3 million a year won't affect this team THAT much in the long run. That is my point.

I figure Shawn Marion is probably overpaid by about $3 million. Some people will say it is more because of Corey Magette's contract, but he is playing much better this season than he was before the contract. He's a bargain. Besides, for all the things he does well I think I would prefer to have Shawn Marion.

That's $3 million that could have been spent on a free agent. My bigger fear is that it will make it more difficult to re-sign the Suns other free agents for less than the overgenerous rates.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama


That's $3 million that could have been spent on a free agent. My bigger fear is that it will make it more difficult to re-sign the Suns other free agents for less than the overgenerous rates.

Joe Mama

A $3 million dollar free agent frankly isn't that good of a player these days. Heck, that's barely a quarter of what we should offer Okur!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I figure Shawn Marion is probably overpaid by about $3 million. Some people will say it is more because of Corey Magette's contract, but he is playing much better this season than he was before the contract. He's a bargain. Besides, for all the things he does well I think I would prefer to have Shawn Marion.

That's $3 million that could have been spent on a free agent. My bigger fear is that it will make it more difficult to re-sign the Suns other free agents for less than the overgenerous rates.

Joe Mama

I would not sign anyone to a max contract until after the new CBA is in place. If guarenteed contracts were reduced to 4 years, it would be much easier to hold the line on the size of the contracts.

One of the problems the Suns had when they re-signed Marion was that they were so far over the cap they could not replace him if he walked. No one knew at the time that it would be possible to move Penny. One of the big advantages to being under the cap is that not only there more money to re-sign players, but also to replace them.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
A $3 million dollar free agent frankly isn't that good of a player these days. Heck, that's barely a quarter of what we should offer Okur!

You are right. $3 million isn't a whole lot on a single free agent, but it could make the difference between getting a great free-agent and an average one.

Also, there was not more than a few times in 19 against Minnesota where Shawn Marion was guarding Kevin Garnett by himself. He had double team and often triple team help the entire game. Against Kevin Garnett I have no problem with that although it would be nice to have somebody who could play him straight up. I don't like it when they have to automatically double team guys like Rashard Lewis.

Joe Mama

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by Joe Mama


Also, there was not more than a few times in 19 against Minnesota where Shawn Marion was guarding Kevin Garnett by himself. He had double team and often triple team help the entire game. Against Kevin Garnett I have no problem with that although it would be nice to have somebody who could play him straight up. I don't like it when they have to automatically double team guys like Rashard Lewis.

Joe Mama

True Marion had a lot of help with KG. Against the Hawks he was manned up with Shareef on numerous occasions though and did a good job. I was actually suprised because Marion's biggest problem is with guys that can post him up, but he did a very good job last night IMO.

 

[George O'Brien]

At some point I think Zarko will learn to be a decent defender. Casey has proven that it is mostly about effort and concentration, and having an SF with the wing span of a guy 7'1" would be very nice. Right now Zarko looks clueless on defense.

One of the advantages of depth is the ability to work matchups. Marion is very good a playing the passing lanes and getting steals, doing putback's on rebounds, and catching alley-oop passes. Carbakap looks like he will be a very good spot up shooter, a great passer, very good at driving the basket, and eventually at matching up defensively on really tall SF's.

They are going to cause opponents some real problems.

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
One of the big advantages to being under the cap is that not only there more money to re-sign players, but also to replace them.

George,

this exactly answers the question of opportunity cost we had in another thread.

Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton on the same team can't have the same indiv. stats they used to have on separate teams. With Kobe/Amare/JJ/Marion, the same thing would happen. Whose production would go down most? Not sure. But the 4th option's production here, stats-wise, should be easily and more cost-efficiently replaced!

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by sunsfn
Here is the current player rankings by CBS sports.

sOverall rankings 1- 409
#4 Shawn Marion, #43 Joe Johnson, #155 Jake Voskuhl, #156 Amare SToudemire, #160 Howard Eisley, #174 Casey Jacobson, #222 Jahidi White, #229 Leandro Barbosa.

A healthy #4 all-NBA talent not even selected to the allstars game, NBA coaches must really suck. And fans who think this talent is by 3mil per overpaid belong in the same category.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by cly2tw
George,

this exactly answers the question of opportunity cost we had in another thread.

Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton on the same team can't have the same indiv. stats they used to have on separate teams. With Kobe/Amare/JJ/Marion, the same thing would happen. Whose production would go down most? Not sure. But the 4th option's production here, stats-wise, should be easily and more cost-efficiently replaced!

I will be the first person to say that stats can be deceiving. Look at the stats for Zydrunas Ilgauskas and you'd think he is a great player. Watch him play defense and you understand why the Cavs keep trying to trade him.

As a general rule I don't pay as much attention to ppg as I do to shooting percentage. Almost any NBA player can score points if he shoots enough, but scoring points with a higher percentage is not so easy. (It does depend on the position played, many centers have high percentages because they only shoot layups).

As a rule, I'd rather have a team with 6 or 7 guys average in double fitures and good percentages than two hitting 25 and everyone else under 10.