Chad Tracy or Conor Jackson?

[Diamondback Jay]

The reason behind this thread/poll is purely for hypothetical purposes. However, there's a few reasons I ask this question.

I think it's a fair assessment to say that these two are almost mirror images of one another in terms of overall talent. Both are deemed "Mark Grace like" in terms of overall potential, regarding performance at the plate. Both are more likely to beat you with good batting averages than they are with the long ball. Subsequently, neither have particularly good glovework in the field.

I think in the next couple of years, there's going to be a situation that arises for the Diamondbacks where one or the other is going to be asked for in a trade. I think both are perhaps best suited for 1st anyhow, so with that said, which of these two do you think the Diamondbacks SHOULD/Will keep when the time and situation arises?

 

[Espo]

I voted for Conor. I think his ceiling is much higher then that of Tracy at this point. Also you can get away with having less of a power bat at first while you need more production from your third baseman. I'm sure a lot of people will site Conor's defense as a big issue but he is still learning the position and in the minors, specifically in Tucson, he was solid defensively. I think in the end he will turn out to be the better fit for this organization.

 

[Phxchris1989]

Conor, the sky is the limit with him. Like Quentin, he can only get better.

 

[HooverDam]

I chose Conor Jackson. He's younger and cheaper (for now anyway), and probably has a higher ceiling. As I've stated in other threads I wish the Dbacks would move Upton to 3B in the minors, because if the OF of Young, Quentin and Gonzalez works out, I'd hate to have to move one of the 4 talented young OFielders. Chances are that at least one of the four will be a bust (or not be as good as expected), and then that problem will work itself out.

It would be nice if the D'Backs could get a legitimate power hitting 3rd baseman at some point. It seems like year in and year out the D'backs are constantly stuck with a donut lineup.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I chose Conor Jackson. He's younger and cheaper (for now anyway), and probably has a higher ceiling. As I've stated in other threads I wish the Dbacks would move Upton to 3B in the minors, because if the OF of Young, Quentin and Gonzalez works out, I'd hate to have to move one of the 4 talented young OFielders. Chances are that at least one of the four will be a bust (or not be as good as expected), and then that problem will work itself out.

Well said. As you documented, there's a 20-20 chance that one of the four busts. Not that there are exceptions to this rule, and I sure as hell hope Arizona's that exception.

It would be nice if the D'Backs could get a legitimate power hitting 3rd baseman at some point. It seems like year in and year out the D'backs are constantly stuck with a donut lineup.

I think that was the main reason Arizona traded half their roster to Milwaukee to get Sexson, then when that didn't pan out, signed Glaus. I'd like if nothing more to see this team take a look at someone who's capable of hitting 40 homers. Thus, when the Tracy-to-Anaheim deal was being discussed back when, I mentioned that a package of Dallas McPherson and one of their young pitchers would have done wonders for this franchise.

 

[Brian]

I think we've seen the ceiling with Chad Tracy. I think he's as good as he's gonna get. That's not a bad thing, he isn't great but he is what he is: a very average third baseman.

Conor probably has the higher ceiling. Time will tell how good he becomes at first and if he has the mental capacity to stay focused for 9 innings. I'll wait another two years before I form an opinion on him. In carrer terms he is still very new to the position.

That said, we were all spoiled as D-Backs fans getting to watch Grace and Williams manning the corners. You will rarely see a better defensive 3B than Matty was, and Grace was a great first baseman. Matt's transition from the glove to the throwing hand was exceptionally smooth and his throwing mechanics were flawless. He made the long throw to first look so effortless and routine it was almost boring. The same can't be said for Tracy. Conor has gotten better at digging out the low throws, but again Grace made it look easy.

If any of Conor, Tracy, or Quentin's names were thrown around in trade talks I wouldn't bat an eye. I think at the major league level all three will be just average.....which again isn't necesarilly a bad thing. With Quentin it's more of his hitting I am the least enamored with. He made a name for himself and drew a following shortly after his call up last year because of some VERY timely hits early on, but unless he learns to stop all of that unecessary movement at the plate good pitching will eat him alive. He gets away with it somewhat because he arguably has the fastest bat speed of anyone on the roster....but as the season wore on it showed that even that bat speed didn't measure up to good pitching.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Quite a few valid points here Harley. Just to digress...

I think we've seen the ceiling with Chad Tracy. I think he's as good as he's gonna get. That's not a bad thing, he isn't great but he is what he is: a very average third baseman.

In terms of the overall picture, I'd say Tracy's above average, but facts are, he is what he is... He'll never be the guy you see hitting 35-40 homers, and quite honestly I'd be surprised if he ever hits 30. He's just not a pull power hitter, and is more adequately suited where he's allowed to spray the ball all over the field, and likely to be a guy who you see getting 3 hits in a game rather than a homer per. In terms of power, I think 2005 is going to be as good as it gets for him. He's just not that type of player.

Problem is, neither is Jackson. That is where the problem lies here.

That said, we were all spoiled as D-Backs fans getting to watch Grace and Williams manning the corners. You will rarely see a better defensive 3B than Matty was, and Grace was a great first baseman. Matt's transition from the glove to the throwing hand was exceptionally smooth and his throwing mechanics were flawless. He made the long throw to first look so effortless and routine it was almost boring. The same can't be said for Tracy. Conor has gotten better at digging out the low throws, but again Grace made it look easy.

The thing about Matty that went along with his defensive prowess is the fact that the guy had a period where he was one of the best power hitters in baseball. He had 20 or more homers in 10 of his 17 seasons (sadly, he went downhill offensively after his 1999 campaign where he hit 37 homers and drove in 142 RBIs). To put this more on paper, every season the guy played over 110 games, he hit 20 or more. Point here is, you could plug Matty in the four slot with some amount of confidence. I don't think you can say the same for either Co-Jack or Tracy. As for the upside of the two, I do agree, if either are going to develop power, it's Co-Jack and his ceiling is a bit higher.

Really, if we're looking at pure power at one of the corners, ideally Chris Carter would be the guy to pencil in, however his defense is so atrocious, it's almost embarrassing. Put it to you this way, the guy defensively makes Jack Cust look like a Gold Glover. I saw a few Sidewinder games last year, and in each, defensively the guy looked like he just put on a baseball glove for the first time. If anyone's ever been suited for the DH, it's Chris Carter.

If any of Conor, Tracy, or Quentin's names were thrown around in trade talks I wouldn't bat an eye. I think at the major league level all three will be just average.....which again isn't necesarilly a bad thing. With Quentin it's more of his hitting I am the least enamored with. He made a name for himself and drew a following shortly after his call up last year because of some VERY timely hits early on, but unless he learns to stop all of that unecessary movement at the plate good pitching will eat him alive. He gets away with it somewhat because he arguably has the fastest bat speed of anyone on the roster....but as the season wore on it showed that even that bat speed didn't measure up to good pitching.

Hey, I agree. I don't have the attachment to Jackson, Quentin or Tracy that other fans might. To be honest with you, in terms of the farm system pecking order, I'd put Upton, Drew, Carlos Gonzalez (this guy reminds me so damn much of Pujols, I'd swear the two are related somehow) and Chris Young as "untouchables". Let's say, for arguements sake, if Houston calls tommorrow and offers Lance Berkman for Jackson or Tracy and Quentin (as a package, obviously, it'd take more than the two to get Berkman), I'm heading to downtown Phoenix and offering to pack their stuff and drive them to Sky Harbor.

 

[BC867]

I'm going with Conor Jackson, too.

But I do believe that Tracy, if he disciplines himself at bat, could win some batting titles.

He could be a good contributor offensively for a team which has power at the other corners -- 1B, LF and RF . . . which the D'backs do not.

 

[FArting]

I chose Chad Tracy.

 

[HooverDam]

I chose Chad Tracy.

Care to explain why?

Also, for now I'd keep Carlos Quentin on the untouchables list, just because like I said you don't know which of the young outfielders might not work out.

If I was the D'backs management though, Eric Byrnes, Orlando Hudson and Chad Tracy would all be for sale for sure.

 

[Brian]

Care to explain why?

Also, for now I'd keep Carlos Quentin on the untouchables list, just because like I said you don't know which of the young outfielders might not work out.

If I was the D'backs management though, Eric Byrnes, Orlando Hudson and Chad Tracy would all be for sale for sure.

I don't want to try and sound too harsh, but I don't understand this. Too me it is a given that for the time being O-Dog is untouchable. What two-time (and current) Gold Glove winner are you going to replace him with?

If you have the current GG winner for a position on your roster (who is relatively young - 29) and batted .287 with 15 HR and 67 RBI's and is also a switch-hitter.....you better get one hell of a return.

With Drew possibly having a shot at GG's in the future, that is a middle infield that you try and keep together for as long as possible IMHO.

 

[devilfan02]

Easy..... Conor

 

[HooverDam]

I don't want to try and sound too harsh, but I don't understand this. Too me it is a given that for the time being O-Dog is untouchable. What two-time (and current) Gold Glove winner are you going to replace him with?

If you have the current GG winner for a position on your roster (who is relatively young - 29) and batted .287 with 15 HR and 67 RBI's and is also a switch-hitter.....you better get one hell of a return.

With Drew possibly having a shot at GG's in the future, that is a middle infield that you try and keep together for as long as possible IMHO.

I'd GLADLY trade Hudson for pitching. No question about it. Callaspo will probably be fine (though maybe never as good as Hudson) and you can find plenty of serviceable 2nd baseman.

If you got to choose between a stud pitcher or a 2nd baseman, you are telling me you'd choose the 2nd baseman? If the D'backs could move Hudson to a contender midseason for a few solid young pitchers/pitching prospects, I'd be fine with that.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

You can never fully underestimate the importance of defense in the middle infield. To me, if Webb got a bonus for winning the Cy Young, he should have given a portion of it to O-Dogg, who's Gold Glove defense in the middle infield saved many of grounders that would have dribbled through for extra base hits in most other seasons. As long as Co Jack and Tracy are the CI of this team, keeping someone like Orlando Hudson is widely essential.

Right now, I'd trade Callaspo before Hudson.

 

[Espo]

Right now, I'd trade Callaspo before Hudson.

No way in the world would I trade Callaspo. His ceiling is as high if not higher than that of CoJack and maybe even Quentin. The guy is amazing defensively at 3B, 2B and SS plus his bat is great. He could easily hit .320 on a consistent basis while providing solid defense. O-Dog's defense is great and should be here the next few years but I wouldn't do it at the expense of trading Callaspo.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

No way in the world would I trade Callaspo. His ceiling is as high if not higher than that of CoJack and maybe even Quentin. The guy is amazing defensively at 3B, 2B and SS plus his bat is great. He could easily hit .320 on a consistent basis while providing solid defense. O-Dog's defense is great and should be here the next few years but I wouldn't do it at the expense of trading Callaspo.

I truthfully wouldn't lose any sleep if Arizona kept hold of both. I'm really sold on Hudson's defense, and think it's fair to say he's one of the top defensive 2B in the game. Think there's a chance Arizona moves Drew to 3B and keeps both?

Callaspo, I've seen his defense at 2B and SS, and to be honest I'm sold on him overall, I see him being on the same level as Freddie Sanchez with the bat, but I don't think he's quite on Hudson's level defensively at 2B. That's no knock on Callaspo either.

 

[Espo]

I would agree that right now Hudson's defense is vastly superior and for the next three or four years it probably will be better than Callaspo's but I think Callaspo will also prove to be a valuable piece to this team. I think both can co-exist in the right situation. I like the problem of too much young talent at a position like this rather than the problem of the past and not having enough.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I would agree that right now Hudson's defense is vastly superior and for the next three or four years it probably will be better than Callaspo's but I think Callaspo will also prove to be a valuable piece to this team. I think both can co-exist in the right situation. I like the problem of too much young talent at a position like this rather than the problem of the past and not having enough.

Depth is crucial. If you look at most of the successful teams of the last five years, most of them were built off strong rosters, top to bottom.

I'm definitely happy with having the circumstance of a possible position battle in the forseeable future, rather than in the past when they were trotting guys like Matt Kata out there simply because he was the best of a poor situation.

 

[Espo]

Plus if the Dbacks identify a definite need in the future they have the necessary pieces to pull of a big trade to bring that piece in and still have enough talent in the farm system. Case and point the Randy Johnson deal on a small scale.

 

[Brian]

I'd GLADLY trade Hudson for pitching. No question about it. Callaspo will probably be fine (though maybe never as good as Hudson) and you can find plenty of serviceable 2nd baseman.

If you got to choose between a stud pitcher or a 2nd baseman, you are telling me you'd choose the 2nd baseman? If the D'backs could move Hudson to a contender midseason for a few solid young pitchers/pitching prospects, I'd be fine with that.

Nope. I'm saying I'd trade Tracy or Quentin. Or Both.

Middle infield defense is the most important on a team. We have THE current and possibly a future (Drew) Gold Glover at those positions. Keep them together.

Honest question (and keep in mind there is no answer, purely opinion):

Rank your top four positions that you regard as the most important defensively. Mine would be:

1) Shortstop

2) Center

3) Second

4) Catcher/Third (That's cheating I know)

(The rest would be Left, Right, First, Pitcher)

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Honest question (and keep in mind there is no answer, purely opinion):

Rank your top four positions that you regard as the most important defensively. Mine would be:

You're talking to an old catcher here, so don't mind my personal bias in this. Mind you, when I say "defense" for a catcher, I'm also referring for their ability to throw out attempted base runners and I also equate calling of games as a defensive category.

With that said, here's my list.

1) Catcher

2) Shortstop/Second (You can get away with having a mediocre shortstop/second baseman if you have one at the other position who has the glove skills. Just my opinion anyhow..

3) Centerfield

4) Third

5) Right Field

6) Left Field

7) Pitcher

8) First Base

 

[Espo]

You're talking to an old catcher here,

You could have stopped right there. Everything you said after it is discredited... jk. I agree that Catchers are just as important as 2B but not more so then SS.

 

[HooverDam]

Well since pitching in itself is a huge part of the defense, I'd say I'd rank pitcher 1-10, then maybe Catcher or SS after that. I'm obsessed with pitching, the Dbacks don't have any future star pitchers in the pipeline- or at least it seems that way. So if they can trade someone like Tracy or Hudson and get pitching, I'd be fine with that.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Who would you ideally like to see them go after Hoover?

 

[Diamondback Jay]

You could have stopped right there. Everything you said after it is discredited... jk.

Hey, I'm not biased.. Not in the least

"We could have made it to the majors Coop".