Chad Tracy or Conor Jackson?

[Espo]

Hey, I'm not biased.. Not in the least

"We could have made it to the majors Coop".

I'm going to refer to you as Crash from now on .

 

[Brian]

First, I completely agree Jay about your breakdown of what goes into a catcher's abilities. So I was thinking of that in my ranking.

2. Hoover, I totally agree that pitching is defense. The 2001 W.S. is a great example of defense wins championships. Great pitching + the #1 ranked defense.

3. Jay, you have Right ranked higher than Left? Just wondering why.

4. Thank GOD we can finally talk baseball!!

Lastly, the Mrs. just informed me she has never seen Major League, The Natural, 61, or Bull Durham. WTF!!!!

 

[Espo]

4. Thank GOD we can finally talk baseball!!

Lastly, the Mrs. just informed me she has never seen Major League, The Natural, 61, or Bull Durham. WTF!!!!

YES! Thank god it's baseball time.

You and your wife need to get renting the dvd's then because those are all on my list of top movies and some of the greatest one liners.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

First, I completely agree Jay about your breakdown of what goes into a catcher's abilities. So I was thinking of that in my ranking.

2. Hoover, I totally agree that pitching is defense. The 2001 W.S. is a great example of defense wins championships. Great pitching + the #1 ranked defense.

See, I agree but at the same time tend to disagree.

Make no mistake about it, if pitching DIDN'T play a factor, the Rockies of the 90s would have won about 3 World Series rings.

However, I'm one who thinks you can get away with mid level pitchers and still win. Look at the Cardinals last year-- their main stallwarts down the stretch in the pitching department were Jeff Suppan and Jeff Weaver, two guys who had been cast off one too many times. You can get away without having a star studded cast if you've got a good defense to back it up.

3. Jay, you have Right ranked higher than Left? Just wondering why

.

I think both are interchangable, but I look at the dimensions of the fields, and Right is generally shorter than Left, which makes defense at the position slightly more important because more fly balls are generally going to be hit that direction than not.

Also, when you look at the fact that guys like Manny Ramirez and Luis Gonzalez, who act like they're playing with their bare hands, are stuck in LF.. Well, needless to say, you can get away with a subpar defensive LF moreso than in Right.

4. Thank GOD we can finally talk baseball!!

Amen to that.

Lastly, the Mrs. just informed me she has never seen Major League, The Natural, 61, or Bull Durham. WTF!!!!

Ok.. No cause for panic. I own 3 of the 4 and am getting the fourth soon. One of these days, we'll all get together, I'll get the collection ready and we'll indoctrinate Mrs. Harley in to baseball movie heaven. Has she seen Field of Dreams?

It's all good in general, because Amber hadn't seen Major League or Bull Durham before meeting me, and wouldn't have seen 61 if she wasn't married to me.

 

[Brian]

YES! Thank god it's baseball time.

You and your wife need to get renting the dvd's then because those are all on my list of top movies and some of the greatest one liners.

No kidding.

She has no idea who JoBoo is.

(Hell, I just had to teach her who Roger Maris was)

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Oh man.

We're going to have a LONGGGGGGGGG talk with her tommorrow..

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I'm going to refer to you as Crash from now on .

Crash.. Has a nice ring to it

 

[Espo]

Crash.. Has a nice ring to it

It's not short for Crash Davis like in the movie its short for Crash and Burn like you are gonna do in the fantasy league

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Sure sure sure.. Keep telling yourself that, so at the end of the year when I'm collecting the first place winnings, you'll all have hope for next year to build on.

 

[Brian]

Originally posted by SumDumGuy:

However, I'm one who thinks you can get away with mid level pitchers and still win. Look at the Cardinals last year-- their main stallwarts down the stretch in the pitching department were Jeff Suppan and Jeff Weaver, two guys who had been cast off one too many times. You can get away without having a star studded cast if you've got a good defense to back it up.

Agreed, that's why I was saying good pitching in addition to the #1 ranked defense.

Pitching can't do everything, (and I know you know this, I'm preaching to the choir.....humor me). The Rockies example you gave was good, also it's no wonder the Braves don't have 3 or 4 titles from the Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz years.

 

[Espo]

Originally posted by SumDumGuy:

However, I'm one who thinks you can get away with mid level pitchers and still win. Look at the Cardinals last year-- their main stallwarts down the stretch in the pitching department were Jeff Suppan and Jeff Weaver, two guys who had been cast off one too many times. You can get away without having a star studded cast if you've got a good defense to back it up.

Agreed, that's why I was saying good pitching in addition to the #1 ranked defense.

Pitching can't do everything, (and I know you know this, I'm preaching to the choir.....humor me). The Rockies example you gave was good, also it's no wonder the Braves don't have 3 or 4 titles from the Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz years.

This is 100% true and while the dbacks don't have fantastic pitching prospects right now I think there are a few solid ones and the rotation over the next two years will be surprisingly good. If this offense can provide anything this team could have something with that defense up the middle.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Originally posted by SumDumGuy:

Hoo ha.. Everyone's a critic...

Agreed, that's why I was saying good pitching in addition to the #1 ranked defense.

Pitching can't do everything, (and I know you know this, I'm preaching to the choir.....humor me). The Rockies example you gave was good, also it's no wonder the Braves don't have 3 or 4 titles from the Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz years.

Good example. The Braves had pitching to kill for, but not enough defense, moderate spunk with their offense and a shaky bullpen, which cost them more times than not.

 

[Brian]

This is 100% true and while the dbacks don't have fantastic pitching prospects right now I think there are a few solid ones and the rotation over the next two years will be surprisingly good. If this offense can provide anything this team could have something with that defense up the middle.

I know Webb and Davis are groundball pitchers, so the middle defense is going to be crucial (and played a big part in Webb winning the Cy Young as Jay said). My question is: Are the prospects like Owings and Nippert more groundball or flyball?

I don't catch the AAA games like I should.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I don't know about Owings, but Nippert gives up a hell of a lot of fly balls.. In fact, too many for my liking.

Owings seems to be more of a ground ball guy, but Espo might be better suited to answer that question.

 

[Espo]

I don't know about Owings, but Nippert gives up a hell of a lot of fly balls.. In fact, too many for my liking.

Owings seems to be more of a ground ball guy, but Espo might be better suited to answer that question.

You are dead on about Nippert. The guy gave up a lot of flyballs. Owings is a 50 /50 guy if that makes any sense. He gets as many outs by fly ball as by ground ball. He had 102 ground ball outs and 92 fly ball outs in Tucson last year. Overall though he only gave up .41 homeruns per nine innings. In comparison NIppert gave up .71 homeruns per nine innings.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

You are dead on about Nippert. The guy gave up a lot of flyballs. Owings is a 50 /50 guy if that makes any sense.

Makes perfect sense.

He gets as many outs by fly ball as by ground ball. He had 102 ground ball outs and 92 fly ball outs in Tucson last year. Overall though he only gave up .41 homeruns per nine innings. In comparison NIppert gave up .71 homeruns per nine innings.

That .41 stat is telling. He's a guy who may not be overpowering, but he won't surrender a lot of homers either. Pitching at Chase Field, that can only be decreed a good thing.

Nippert on the other hand, he's more likely to blow you away with his stuff, but if someone gets ahold of it, he's more likely to see his hits sent in to the bleachers, which in itself is cause for concern.

 

[Brian]

You are dead on about Nippert. The guy gave up a lot of flyballs. Owings is a 50 /50 guy if that makes any sense. He gets as many outs by fly ball as by ground ball. He had 102 ground ball outs and 92 fly ball outs in Tucson last year. Overall though he only gave up .41 homeruns per nine innings. In comparison NIppert gave up .71 homeruns per nine innings.

We could probably include him in a package deal to bring back Albie or Ortiz.

 

[Espo]

Another way to put it is Owings pitches smart while Nippert is still just "throwing". Owings bat comes up big too. He was a two way star at Tulane and continued to rake in Tucson. He was so good they wanted to pinch hit him but the organization disallowed it. He hit .405 with an OBP of .421 and an OPS of .935 and 4 of his 15 hits were doubles.

 

[Brian]

Another way to put it is Owings pitches smart while Nippert is still just "throwing". Owings bat comes up big too. He was a two way star at Tulane and continued to rake in Tucson. He was so good they wanted to pinch hit him but the organization disallowed it. He hit .405 with an OBP of .421 and an OPS of .935 and 4 of his 15 hits were doubles.

Yeah, but let's see if he can catch up to my 54 m.p.h. smoke!

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Yeah, but let's see if he can catch up to my 54 m.p.h. smoke!

 

[HooverDam]

Who would you ideally like to see them go after Hoover?

I don't know. I don't follow the other teams close enough to really know who their prospects are, unless they are the super big name prospects that everyone has heard of. In my fantasy land scenario, we'd be able to move someone like Tracy or Byrnes mid way through the year for a (or a couple) young pitcher(s). Though I think Byrnes wouldn't bring in much from other teams, he's probably not the guy you bring in to put your team over the top.

EDIT: Just came across this hilarious caption from the Dbacks site: "Knee pain played a role in Chad Tracy's 26 errors at third base last season." I think it was more being a lousy defensive third baseman- hmm.

 

[Nasser22]

I chose Tracy. Sure you need more of a power bat at 3rd so I would move Tracy to first then...I think he can be a very good hitter, much better than last season and I just like him a little more over Jackson. Tracy could have more trade value though if he has a good season so I don't mind adding him in a trade.