Challenge to all ASU supporters

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Mandatory donations to the Sun Angels?

That's one, plus no consistent winning, plus a dearth of sports/entertainment options for the entertainment dollar...

NED

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Are you trying to tell me that the Cardinals are a winning organization?

Are you trying to tell me that ASU is?

Keep trying, Lucky.


Face reality. ASU Football is a monument to underachievement.
45K students
Recruiting available from TX, CA, AZ, OR, WA
What do you get in return? Fan apathy and crap teams.
A lot to work with and no results.

The Cardinals?
They are worth the least of any franchise. Profit the least of any franchise. Play in a crap stadium in the heat at 1:00. And have only been in the Valley for 15 years.
Nothing to work with and no results.

Who is a bigger embarrassment?
I say ASU.
How 'bout you?




Go Big Red
1970, 1971, 1994, 1995, 1997 National Champs

 

[JeffGollin]

Are you trying to tell me that the Cardinals are a winning organization?
So NEM...er Ned - Tell us the truth. Which NFL team do you root for. Isn't this really all about finding a way to hurt the Cardinals and very little to do with ASU?

If your "facts" are correct about the monies owed the Cardinals being "debatable", why not let the arbitrator do his/her job instead of resorting to rhetoric in order to cfoment greater division among the citizens of the Valley?

Unless of course (as I suspect) you're just out to bash the Cardinals and are exploiting the "gimme" the ASU issue has handed you.

The tipoff comes when you moved the debate away from the dollars and cents issues and let it descend into which teams are athletically more successful. (That has absolutely no relevance to the pros and cons of the ASU-Cardinals contractual disagreement).

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
plus a dearth of sports/entertainment options for the entertainment dollar...

NED

That's doesn't play in Ann Arbor, Columbus, Seattle, etc.

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Florida was clearly the best team in the country by the end of the season in '96. ASU choked on defense and couldn't get it done.
BTW, playing for the NC does not mean playing in the Rose Bowl when the Title game is happening in New Orleans.

1975, that was the last year the Cardinals won their division. Back to back I believe.

When there is no title game which covers all the major conferences, then playing for the NC means getting the poll votes. ASU would have been the only undefeated team in the nation had they won the RB, and they would have received 1/2 of the NC from the AP. The USA Today poll was contracturally obligated to vote for the winner of the previous NC game as the #1 team in the nation, but the consensus would have been an NC for ASU, had ASU won.

Do you have anything to offer besides slamming ASU's record? I would think that you would be more embarrassed about the Cards record than to highlight it. 1975 was a long time ago. ASU has won their conference 4 times since then (I believe that ASU won the WAC in 76 and 77, but could be wrong).

NED

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Are you trying to tell me that the Cardinals are a winning organization?
So NEM...er Ned - disagreement).

Hmmmmm - this NeD guy claims to be from Boston...........

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
That's doesn't play in Ann Arbor, Columbus, Seattle, etc.

Please... I gave you a bunch of reasons. Why are you wasting your (and my) time by singaling out small sections that you disagree with. All of the reasons are contributory. It does play a factor in San Francisco and Los Angeles and Boston (check out the fan attendance for PAC-10 teams in those cities).

NED

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Do you have anything to offer besides slamming ASU's record?

That's where you were taking the argument, so I thought I'd just tag along.


National Titles

ASU: Zero
Cardinals: One


They should sell beer at the games.
Might sell a couple out that way.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Please... I gave you a bunch of reasons.

NED

No you didn't, here is what you wrote:


There are a multitude of reasons why ASU's fan base has declined since the glory days

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
Are you trying to tell me that the Cardinals are a winning organization?
If your "facts" are correct about the monies owed the Cardinals being "debatable", why not let the arbitrator do his/her job instead of resorting to rhetoric in order to cfoment greater division among the citizens of the Valley?

Unless of course (as I suspect) you're just out to bash the Cardinals and are exploiting the "gimme" the ASU issue has handed you.

The tipoff comes when you moved the debate away from the dollars and cents issues and let it descend into which teams are athletically more successful. (That has absolutely no relevance to the pros and cons of the ASU-Cardinals contractual disagreement).

I didn't move the debate away from dollars and sense. That was done by others. Read the thread and don't attribute false motives to me. Thanks.

When I lived in AZ (I am an AZ native) I didn't particularly pull for the Cards, although I started to when they had Jake and Tillman, but their continued ineptness and disdain for trying to get things done the right way with the stadium issue pushed me away from them. It went over the top when they attacked ASU's Golf Course and SDS, and this suit is just a continuation of that.

NED

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
No you didn't, here is what you wrote:


There are a multitude of reasons why ASU's fan base has declined since the glory days

You're real good at picking and choosing - but anyone who can read can see through your BS.

I also wrote...

"Mandatory donations to the Sun Angels[from your quote], plus no consistent winning, plus a dearth of sports/entertainment options for the entertainment dollar..."

That's 3.

Please try to get your facts straight.

NED

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
I didn't move the debate away from dollars and sense. That was done by others. Read the thread and don't attribute false motives to me. Thanks.

When I lived in AZ (I am an AZ native) I didn't particularly pull for the Cards, although I started to when they had Jake and Tillman, but their continued ineptness and disdain for trying to get things done the right way with the stadium issue pushed me away from them. It went over the top when they attacked ASU's Golf Course and SDS, and this suit is just a continuation of that.

NED

Wait a minute...perhaps I'm misreading your comments

Are you insinuating that the Cardinals, or the Bidwills if you prefer, are out to destroy Arizona State University?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
I didn't move the debate away from dollars and sense. That was done by others. Read the thread and don't attribute false motives to me. Thanks.

When I lived in AZ (I am an AZ native) I didn't particularly pull for the Cards, although I started to when they had Jake and Tillman, but their continued ineptness and disdain for trying to get things done the right way with the stadium issue pushed me away from them. It went over the top when they attacked ASU's Golf Course and SDS, and this suit is just a continuation of that.

NED

If you think SDS is a nice stadium...I won't even finish.

 

[WizardOfAz]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
You're real good at picking and choosing - but anyone who can read can see through your BS.

NED

Right back at ya snapper......

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by Cardinals.Ken
Wait a minute...perhaps I'm misreading your comments

Are you insinuating that the Cardinals, or the Bidwills if you prefer, are out to destroy Arizona State University?

No - I'm factually stating that they attacked ASU's golf course and stadium in an effort to get their own stadium in Tempe.

NED

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
If you think SDS is a nice stadium...I won't even finish.

Your post has nothing to do with the statements you replied to.

Learn to read.

NED

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by WizardOfAz
Right back at ya snapper......

That's all you've got to say when caught in a bald-faced lie?

Pathetic.

NED

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Jake and Tillman

That's funny, because at the time I felt sorry for Tilly and Jake at ASU for having to go to battle with an complete stiff like Snyder running the show.

What could've been...

 

[JasonKGME]

Re: Re: Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
1 - ASU was forced by the legislature/ABOR. Go read some of the articles on the subject.

2 - I have provided plenty of examples - you refuse (or are unable) to read them. The Cardinals do not bargain well with their first round picks. They back-door their stadium proposals, etc. ad nauseum

3 - The first arbiter was an employee of ABOR, not ASU. That is part of the state arbitration process which the Cardinals had to agree to in order to enter into the contract with ASU.

I've provided plenty of starting points for topics, but you simply ignore them and say - that's no proof.

Why don't you tell me another organization that consistently fails to sign first rounders on time. Or get them into camps (this year being the lone exception). Why were they run out of St. Louis? Or Chicago? Why were they run out of Tempe? Why did they try and force ASU to close down SDS and Karsten Golf Course? Don't you see the pattern?

NED

1- I have read the articles on it and in none have I found reference to ASU being forced into the new contract, thats why I asked you for one.

2- Once again I will say when asking for examples to provided some actual factual documentation to support your claims not just a "belief" of yours. You say you have provided all you id was make a generalized statemnet that the cards used heavy handed technics in Chicago and St. Louis, where is your proof of this, where is a magazine or newspaper article, where is a quote from someone directly involved saying this? anything at all????

3- Since sueing that ASU athletic department is the same as suing the ABOR I fail to see how this distinction makes a lick of difference

As for your final comment about the Cards way of signing first rounders, I fail to see the relevence on that. As for the "running out of Chicago & St. Louis" comment, and the comment that the Cards tried to "force ASU to close down SDS and Karsten golf course" Once again I will request you to provide any kind of proof to these statements.

 

[SECTION 11]

Don't bother, KGME.
It's pointless.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
Your post has nothing to do with the statements you replied to.

Learn to read.

NED

Uhmmm.....I guess that you must not be able to read.....Read the last sentence of the paragraph I quoted smart guy.

SDS is a below average stadium, quite possibly the worst by NFL standards. The Cards have merely pointed out fact, not disparaged what is considered the worst stadium in the NFL.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Don't bother, KGME.
It's pointless.

You can't teach the blind how to see!

 

[SECTION 11]

Re: Yes

Originally posted by sundevilfan99
1 - ASU did not enter the contract willingly. ASU was forced into the contract by the legislature/ABOR.

2 - the Cardinals are obstructionist and do not bargain in good faith. The Cardinals are exploiting an ambiguity in the language of the contract.

3 - Whether or not the Cardinals are owed money is still in dispute. The original arbitration sided with ASU. The Cardinals appealed and the new arbitrator sided with the Cards. A low damage result would probably mean that ASU would pay it. A high damage result would send it to court.

SDF99 (aka NED)

This is rediculous.
This is your original answer to Jason's question, yet you refuse to back it up with anything.

 

[sundevilfan99]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Uhmmm.....I guess that you must not be able to read.....Read the last sentence of the paragraph I quoted smart guy.

SDS is a below average stadium, quite possibly the worst by NFL standards. The Cards have merely pointed out fact, not disparaged what is considered the worst stadium in the NFL.

The Cardinals tried to get the state legislature to tear it down.

NED

 

[sundevilfan99]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yes

Here is the article where the Cards were trying to tear down SDS and rip up Karsten...

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special07/articles/0119stadium19.html

NED