Chances of getting Kobe better than we thought?

[fordronken]

Once Shaq demanded a trade, we all basically assumed Kobe would say "hi" to a few other teams, then sign with the Lakers. Now, however, with the difficulty of trading Shaq becoming ever more apparent(and even if they do get Nowitzki, there are reports that Kobe wouldn't want to play with him) unless they trade Shaq in a panic for way below his worth, it looks like Kobe may not want to play in purple and gold. He doesn't want to play with Shaq, but he also doesn't want to play with a bunch of over priced swing men. It sounds like the Kings and Mavs can't offer a good package(Nash wants to stay with Dirk and Chris Webber is on his way to becoming Penny 2.0), the Nets would be hard pressed to do it(and don't have the requisite Shaq weather), Kupchak doesn't want to deal with West or Poppovich, and the Diesel ain't going to Phoenix.

So, you've got either a bad Shaq trade, or a team with Shaq. Both sound bad to Kobe. Then, you have the Clippers(bleh) who are an option, but I can't see Kobe just switching locker rooms and still having to pass Shaq in the hallways. Atlanta, Denver and Utah aren't happening. That leaves the Suns and the Spurs. The Spurs are more ready and battle tested, but Kobe would prefer to be the undisputed Man with a young big stud in the wings to mentor as his number 2(in his eyes, regardless).

Nonetheless, the odds of Kobe signing in Phoenix have gone, in my eyes, from zero to something more than that...whatever it may be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

eh, i don't think the odds have really changed. i've been shouting about this very fact (the inability to trade shaq or the inability to gain anything in return that would excite kobe) for a month now.

 

[playstation]

i think there is a chance, so i'll agree with you there.

what i really need to occur is for what is going to happen, to happen quickly. i can't be sitting on this board at work all day for the next 4 months!

 

[Joe Mama]

I may catch a lot of flak for this, but I am not 100% sure that the Phoenix Suns will go full bore after Kobe Bryant. Skkorpion brought this up the other day and was blasted for it. I know, I know. If he is convicted of rape his contract won't count. But will they really want to get a $100 million contract knowing that he could come out of a trial not guilty in court but guilty in the public eye.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

I may catch a lot of flak for this, but I am not 100% sure that the Phoenix Suns will go full bore after Kobe Bryant. Skkorpion brought this up the other day and was blasted for it. I know, I know. If he is convicted of rape his contract won't count. But will they really want to get a $100 million contract knowing that he could come out of a trial not guilty in court but guilty in the public eye.

Joe Mama

Guilty in the public eye? He isn't guilty in the public eye NOW, and the trial hasn't even started.

 

[Joe Mama]

Guilty in the public eye? He isn't guilty in the public eye NOW, and the trial hasn't even started.

you must have missed my point. There is always the possibility that during the trial evidence is presented and makes Kobe Bryant looked pretty guilty, yet he is found not guilty by a jury. Think O.J. Simpson here. It doesn't even have to be that blatant. What if it looks like he probably did do it, but the jury can't find him guilty of "beyond a reasonable doubt"? Now you have just signed a player to a long-term deal for over $100 million that most people feel probably raped somebody. That's not a good thing, and it would be easy to understand why an NBA team might want to avoid that situation.

By no means am I saying this is the position the Phoenix Suns have taken. I'm just saying it's a distinct possibility.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

There is always the possibility that during the trial evidence is presented and makes Kobe Bryant looked pretty guilty, yet he is found not guilty by a jury.

I disagree. See my post in the "Ben Maller" thread.

 

[Chaplin]

There is always the possibility that during the trial evidence is presented and makes Kobe Bryant looked pretty guilty, yet he is found not guilty by a jury.

I disagree. See my post in the "Ben Maller" thread.

I was going to say the same thing.

 

[Yuma]

The Kobe leaving because they can't trade Shaq point is valid. Shaq seems unwilling to back off the 29 million and over 30 million dollar contracts he has left. I doubt many teams want to absorb that kind of a hit on a guy that everyone thinks is in decline. If Shaq won't budge, the Lakers will be left with a disgruntled guy on their squad. Kobe won't want that! Either Shaq caves on that contract, or he stays a Laker. Orlando's GM already has publicly opted out of the Shaq market, and former Laker GM Jerry West has made public comments about not being able to do a Shaq trade also. It will be interesting to see if Shaq end sup in LA anyway.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Kobe leaving because they can't trade Shaq point is valid. Shaq seems unwilling to back off the 29 million and over 30 million dollar contracts he has left. I doubt many teams want to absorb that kind of a hit on a guy that everyone thinks is in decline. If Shaq won't budge, the Lakers will be left with a disgruntled guy on their squad. Kobe won't want that! Either Shaq caves on that contract, or he stays a Laker. Orlando's GM already has publicly opted out of the Shaq market, and former Laker GM Jerry West has made public comments about not being able to do a Shaq trade also. It will be interesting to see if Shaq end sup in LA anyway.

It's not the money, it's what they would have to take back. It is very hard to get value without overpaying.

Portland could offer SAR, Dale Davis, and Rubin Patterson - but they are three backups.

 

[mribnik]

The Ravens, all their fans and the media still love Ray Lewis!

 

[Joe Mama]

The Ravens, all their fans and the media still love Ray Lewis!

Ray Lewis was hanging out with people who stabbed a few guys. He lied about it to the police. That's definitely not good, but it's not even in the same category as raping someone.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Ray Lewis was hanging out with people who stabbed a few guys. He lied about it to the police. That's definitely not good, but it's not even in the same category as raping someone.

It's also not in the same category as a one-night stand -- in the other direction.

 

[scotsman13]

elindholm, i dont know how many one night stands you have had but with every encounter i have had i have never left bruses of my hands around someone neck.

there is something to be scored of in this case. i believe that kobe stands about a 30% chance of being conviced. the national average of rape conviction is about 9% (going off memory, it maybe lower).

 

[Joe Mama]

Ray Lewis was hanging out with people who stabbed a few guys. He lied about it to the police. That's definitely not good, but it's not even in the same category as raping someone.

It's also not in the same category as a one-night stand -- in the other direction.

Everybody knows Kobe Bryant committed adultery and slept with the woman. You are right. That probably would not be looked down upon like Ray Lewis' situation. However only Bryant is being accused that much worse than that.

I also disagree that if he's found not guilty it's likely he will look innocent in the public eye. I just don't think that's true. It's possible, but he said/she said cases have ended in a "not guilty" verdict before the left the general public questioning whether the accused was really guilty. Remember the case of the Kennedy nephew.

Joe

 

[Chaplin]

Everybody knows Kobe Bryant committed adultery and slept with the woman. You are right. That probably would not be looked down upon like Ray Lewis' situation. However only Bryant is being accused that much worse than that.

I also disagree that if he's found not guilty it's likely he will look innocent in the public eye. I just don't think that's true. It's possible, but he said/she said cases have ended in a "not guilty" verdict before the left the general public questioning whether the accused was really guilty. Remember the case of the Kennedy nephew.

Joe

Kobe Bryant is not the Kennedy nephew. Of course, this looks like it's based on your distrust for the justice system, and while that is ok, it's kinda sad.

 

[Joe Mama]

Kobe Bryant is not the Kennedy nephew. Of course, this looks like it's based on your distrust for the justice system, and while that is ok, it's kinda sad.

you must not have been following my posts. I do distrust the justice system somewhat because I would not want 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty deciding my fate, but I don't think that's sad at all. Frankly if I walked around and just picked out 12 random people in my community I could guarantee that four or five of them are idiots.

Nevertheless, I was talking about the risk that someone signs Kobe Bryant to a huge contract, he is found "not guilty", but he looks like he probably did do it to the general public. I've brought up O.J. Simpson as an example. However it doesn't even need to be that clear-cut. It could just be where even the jury would figure that it's more likely than not that he committed the crime, but they don't think that the prosecution made a case that he is guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". Now you are stuck with a player with a seven-year $100 million contract with the general public feels is probably guilty of rape.

I do believe teams like the Phoenix Suns will be worried about that possibility when they are considering whether they will go all out to recruit Kobe Bryant.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I only vaguely remember the Kennedy case. Didn't he put up an argument about having sex with the alleged victim at all? So then the "doubt" was about whether he had participated in the act. That's just my memory, so it could be wrong, but if it's correct then it puts Bryant in a different category.

 

[Joe Mama]

I only vaguely remember the Kennedy case. Didn't he put up an argument about having sex with the alleged victim at all? So then the "doubt" was about whether he had participated in the act. That's just my memory, so it could be wrong, but if it's correct then it puts Bryant in a different category.

it's been a long time, but I'm almost certain that he argued the sex was consensual.

Regardless, I don't think it's far-fetched at all to think that there is a real possibility that he will be found "not guilty" by a jury while the general public or at least a good part of it feels he probably did rape her.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

it's been a long time, but I'm almost certain that he argued the sex was consensual.

Regardless, I don't think it's far-fetched at all to think that there is a real possibility that he will be found "not guilty" by a jury while the general public or at least a good part of it feels he probably did rape her.

Joe Mama

You mean like you've already done?

 

[slinslin]

Before Kobe was accused he was regarded as a model citizen and was the poster child of the NBA.
I don't think the same could be said about OJ Simpson.

And murder is probably not on the same stage as rape when both are not found guilty.
For all we know it was the girls decision to go to a private room with Kobe.

 

[Joe Mama]

You mean like you've already done?

Can you read? I don't know if you have trouble with your reading comprehension, or if you're just trying to start an argument with me. Nowhere in my posts here have I said that I think Kobe Bryant is guilty of rape. I'm just saying there is more to consider than just whether a jury will find him guilty or not guilty. It's not as simple as that.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Can you read? I don't know if you have trouble with your reading comprehension, or if you're just trying to start an argument with me. Nowhere in my posts here have I said that I think Kobe Bryant is guilty of rape. I'm just saying there is more to consider than just whether a jury will find him guilty or not guilty. It's not as simple as that.

Joe Mama

That is the ONLY thing you ever bring up! Ever! You have already convicted him, no matter what the verdict will be!

 

[slinslin]

Can you read? I don't know if you have trouble with your reading comprehension, or if you're just trying to start an argument with me. Nowhere in my posts here have I said that I think Kobe Bryant is guilty of rape. I'm just saying there is more to consider than just whether a jury will find him guilty or not guilty. It's not as simple as that.

Joe Mama

If the Suns thought it would be a problem if Kobe Bryant was looked at as guilty in the public eye I am sure they could find a taker who doesn't think so and wants top5 player on his team.

 

[Joe Mama]

That is the ONLY thing you ever bring up! Ever! You have already convicted him, no matter what the verdict will be!

LOL!

I don't even know how to respond to this, so I won't anymore. I'll just say this. I'll wait until the trial to see whether I think he did it or not. Right now I have no idea. My posts have nothing to do with whether he is actually guilty or not but how he looks in the public eye. Apparently you have trouble differentiating the two.

Joe Mama