Changes for Next Season?

[Mainstreet]

Beverley is a decent defender but much of what he does is dirty, Holiday just plays the game the way it used to be officiated not so many years ago. After last year's playoffs and this postseason, I'm guessing the pendulum is swinging back to a more physical game. So we need to adjust, with the players we have and with the players we try to bring in.

We do not disagree about Beverley. Holiday is like Beverley without the blatantly flagrant stuff.

Chris Paul is not going to change his game and I doubt the refereeing in the playoffs is going to change either.

If the Suns want to change they should be looking at players like Lonzo Ball as Finito suggested or better depth at point guard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We do not disagree about Beverley. Holiday is like Beverley without the blatantly flagrant stuff.

Chris Paul is not going to change his game and I doubt the refereeing in the playoffs is going to change either.

If the Suns want to change they should be looking at players like Lonzo Ball as Finito suggested.

I think that's the big difference but IMO Holiday is a legit defender under any style of officiating - PB is handcuffed by decent refereeing, something we saw little of when we played the Clippers.

Not that I'm in favor of this but if we part ways with Paul, I think we're more likely to see either Reggie Jackson or Dennis Schroder. I say that because Paul would prefer LA and I'm assuming a sign and trade could be worked out.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think that's the big difference but IMO Holiday is a legit defender under any style of officiating - PB is handcuffed by decent refereeing, something we saw little of when we played the Clippers.

Not that I'm in favor of this but if we part ways with Paul, I think we're more likely to see either Reggie Jackson or Dennis Schroder. I say that because Paul would prefer LA and I'm assuming a sign and trade could be worked out.

I'd seriously consider this but I think the ship has already sailed on Chris Paul and he will be back.

If the Suns keep Paul the only fix I can think of is to throw more depth and shot creators behind Paul.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'd seriously consider this but I think the ship has already sailed on Chris Paul and he will be back.

If the Suns keep Paul the only fix I can think of is to throw more depth and shot creators behind Paul.

I really thought we had some decent backup guards (not great, but decent), Monty put them on ice for the playoffs for some reason. I guess we need to find some backup guards that Monty believes in enough to use them regularly. But I believe if we move on from him Carter will find a home somewhere and make our lives miserable for a decade to come.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

I really thought we had some decent backup guards (not great, but decent), Monty put them on ice for the playoffs for some reason. I guess we need to find some backup guards that Monty believes in enough to use them regularly. But I believe if we move on from him Carter will find a home somewhere and make our lives miserable for a decade to come.

Carter's offensive game is so limited i highly doubt that happens. And who would he have guarded had he received playing time? Jrue wasn't much of a scoring threat, and he doesn't have the size to guard Middleton or Giannis.

 

[Mainstreet]

I really thought we had some decent backup guards (not great, but decent), Monty put them on ice for the playoffs for some reason. I guess we need to find some backup guards that Monty believes in enough to use them regularly. But I believe if we move on from him Carter will find a home somewhere and make our lives miserable for a decade to come.

This is puzzling why Carter didn't get more playing time in the playoffs but he is more of a defensive guard and scorer than a point guard. Anyway, at this point I think Carter has a neutral or negative trade value.

Suns need another shot creator like Cam Payne even if they keep Cam Payne. Also Payne is not afraid to play defense even though he is small.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Carter's offensive game is so limited i highly doubt that happens. And who would he have guarded had he received playing time? Jrue wasn't much of a scoring threat, and he doesn't have the size to guard Middleton or Giannis.

His offensive game is more inconsistent than limited IMO and he is not a distributor but he can still be a factor coming off the bench. Besides his pesky defense, when his shot is on he can easily justify 6th or 7th man minutes. Much like Beverley earlier in his career.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is puzzling why Carter didn't get more playing time in the playoffs but he is more of a defensive guard and scorer than a point guard. Anyway, at this point I think Carter has a neutral or negative trade value.

Suns need another shot creator like Cam Payne even if they keep Cam Payne. Also Payne is not afraid to play defense even though he is small.

Oh I don't think Carter has any more than throw-in value for a trade but IMO someone will pick him up quickly if/when he becomes available.

Nader can create his own shot, in fact he's probably better at it than anyone else on the team other than maybe Payne. And if he ever learns to consistently finish those plays where he "creates his own offense", he'd be a great backup 2 guard. But he was out far too long this season to reasonably expect anything from him during the playoffs.

 

[AZman5103]

We are going to have to have some of our own bench guys step up, and earn minutes. We can't bring in 6 new players.

IMO the two guys that need to be given minutes all season long are Carter and Stix. Carter plays tough D, and can get hot shooting. If Payne can take a major leap, why can't Carter? Stix...IF he can play D and rebound might be the 4 we need.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh I don't think Carter has any more than throw-in value for a trade but IMO someone will pick him up quickly if/when he becomes available.

Nader can create his own shot, in fact he's probably better at it than anyone else on the team other than maybe Payne. And if he ever learns to consistently finish those plays where he "creates his own offense", he'd be a great backup 2 guard. But he was out far too long this season to reasonably expect anything from him during the playoffs.

I thought Abdel Nader was the poor man's Kelly Oubre. He can slash to the basket, hit the three and play defense but I never thought of him as a shot creator where he can take a defender off the dribble. I do like Nader and would be pleased if he comes back.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I dont get this bashing Paul or saying hes done because Holiday made him work hard while he was already dealing with an injury. Jrue Holiday has been 1st Team All Defense twice and 2nd Team once in the last 4 years. He's not some scrub. He's legitimately a top 5 defender in this league.

Where did I say he was "done?" And, as best as I can tell, he suffered his injuries prior to the Bucks series...prior to Holiday defending him.
As I clearly stated, the ONLY thing to do is to re-sign CP3.

 

[82CardsGrad]

all time greats don’t struggle with Jrue Holiday period. It’s not that he made him work it’s that he dominated him at points.

It's really both. Perhaps, if Paul faced off against Holiday earlier in the playoffs, he might not have been so adversely impacted by Holiday - though I have my doubts about that.
Nonetheless, Holiday's size and physicality wore CP3 down. Not sure if they're stats for this, but my recollection is that Paul was a rare option for bringing the ball up the court in Game 6. No doubt a nod to how effective Holiday had been on Paul.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My guess is that we bring back nearly the entire roster as is and hope to be on the buyout train for size. The only move I would make is to move Bridges while his value is at it's highest before we have to pay him his extension

 

[Hoop Head]

Where did I say he was "done?" And, as best as I can tell, his suffered his injuries prior to the Bucks series...prior to Holiday defending him.
As I clearly stated, the ONLY thing to do is to re-sign CP3.

You entirely dismissed Holidays credentials while saying he beat Paul into submission. I know that isn't saying he's done but I was being a bit general because you aren't the only person to point to how he played in the finals as a reason why we should explore other options.

And yes he suffered his injuries before the Bucks series. I don't get why that's so worth mentioning now. He was injured going against the best defensive PG in the entire league. Holiday can slow down anyone. Paul looked great until he went up against him while he was hurt. Harden went at Holiday in the playoffs injured also and didn't look great so should the Nets look at their options also?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Where did I say he was "done?" And, as best as I can tell, he suffered his injuries prior to the Bucks series...prior to Holiday defending him.
As I clearly stated, the ONLY thing to do is to re-sign CP3.

IIRC the dislocated finger happened early in game 3 of the Bucks series?

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns played 22 extra games in the playoffs. It can wear on a team. I now understand why stars try to preserve their body during the season.

If the Suns keep Paul they need to plan on giving him more rest even if he wants to play every game.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You entirely dismissed Holidays credentials while saying he beat Paul into submission. I know that isn't saying he's done but I was being a bit general because you aren't the only person to point to how he played in the finals as a reason why we should explore other options.

And yes he suffered his injuries before the Bucks series. I don't get why that's so worth mentioning now. He was injured going against the best defensive PG in the entire league. Holiday can slow down anyone. Paul looked great until he went up against him while he was hurt. Harden went at Holiday in the playoffs injured also and didn't look great so should the Nets look at their options also?

1.) One can point out that an all-time great point guard was beaten down, while also NOT disregarding the credentials of the player who dished out the beating.

2.) I never, ever connected Paul's play with anything close to not bringing him back.

3.) I don't care what the Nets do and again, I never, ever said the Suns should "look at their options."

You guys... geeeez.

 

[82CardsGrad]

IIRC the dislocated finger happened early in game 3 of the Bucks series?

How do you know?

 

[Mainstreet]

My guess is that we bring back nearly the entire roster as is and hope to be on the buyout train for size. The only move I would make is to move Bridges while his value is at it's highest before we have to pay him his extension

I don't think Moore and Galloway will be back and the Suns have to find a replacement for Saric.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I don't think Moore and Galloway will be back and the Suns have to find a replacement for Saric.

Yeah the back end of the bench will change

 

[Hoop Head]

1.) One can point out that an all-time great point guard was beaten down, while also NOT disregarding the credentials of the player who dished out the beating.

2.) I never, ever connected Paul's play with anything close to not bringing him back.

3.) I don't care what the Nets do and again, I never, ever said the Suns should "look at their options."

You guys... geeeez.

You did ignore Holidays credentials by talking about how Paul was beaten into submission by a player like Jrue. There aren't players like Jrue in the league, theirs him. He's an elite defender. The way you said it was like CP3 was abused by a lesser player who shouldn't have been an issue. Sorry but people don't usually talk that way when they're endorsing a signing.

You even mentioned how we need more depth, suggesting Paul can't handle but a backup could somehow? Now you're backpedaling and arguing semantics when your post clearly wasn't an endorsement for bringing Paul back. You did only seemed to agree to it since there isnt another clear option.


Edit - I mentioned Harden and the Nets to show that its not just Paul who struggled against Holiday. Holiday has a reputation as a great defender who can slow down even the best players in the league, especially when they're dealing with injuries.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

My guess is that we bring back nearly the entire roster as is and hope to be on the buyout train for size. The only move I would make is to move Bridges while his value is at it's highest before we have to pay him his extension

You had me until your Bridges slander! I really think he's a part of the next great Suns team. He definitely needs to get stronger and better at creating, but as long as he can make 3's and play solid D, he'll always be valuable.

 

[Hoop Head]

IIRC the dislocated finger happened early in game 3 of the Bucks series?

I thought it happened in game 2. If you're thinking of the same incident I am where Paul went to the bench, was getting his hand worked on by a trainer and they tried blocking cameras from catching it. A reporter asked Paul about it later, maybe halftime or postgame, but he no sold it, acting like nothing happened. That was odd to see all around.

 

[Mainstreet]

1.) One can point out that an all-time great point guard was beaten down, while also NOT disregarding the credentials of the player who dished out the beating.

2.) I never, ever connected Paul's play with anything close to not bringing him back.

3.) I don't care what the Nets do and again, I never, ever said the Suns should "look at their options."

You guys... geeeez.

The Suns should look at their options.

Most of us are not fans blind to the weaknesses of the team. The problem is, often times there are not better options.

 

[82CardsGrad]

You did ignore Holidays credentials by talking about how Paul was beaten into submission by a player like Jrue. There aren't players like Jrue in the league, theirs him. He's an elite defender. The way you said it was like CP3 was abused by a lesser player who shouldn't have been an issue. Sorry but people don't usually talk that way when they're endorsing a signing.

You even mentioned how we need more depth, suggesting Paul can't handle but a backup could somehow? Now you're backpedaling and arguing semantics when your post clearly wasn't an endorsement for bringing Paul back. You did only seemed to agree to it since there isnt another clear option.

Wow... beyond reaching dude. Not sure why... but if you're looking to engage is another stupid, endless debate, you picked the wrong guy.
Re-read my post. And when you're done, re-read it again. And if you come away with anything other than:

- I believe the Suns must bring Paul back.
- His age concerns me and that a viable back-up to take mins away from Paul during the regular season, would be helpful.
- And, Paul wore down in the post season.

See ya...