Changes for Next Season?

[AzStevenCal]

Well..... Think about what is out there for trade, and then think about all-nba level players who may be available.

I don't think it would happen, but Portland is the perfect kind of team to welcome CP3. And we would need a replacement of higher value.

Honestly, I don't think it happens UNLESS Lillard forces his way out. Which we all know CAN happen.

I don't see it happening even if Lillard does force his way out.

Chris Paul wants to be as close to his family in So Cal as possible so he would be against the deal - so moving him there would be a bad look for an organization finally turning the corner in public perception.

And Portland would be taking more than just a small step backward with CP and that's assuming decent health for Chris and only normal age decline. I don't follow them closely but I would think they'd be more likely to rebuild than try to reload with an inferior product than they've put out there the past few years.

 

[Finito]

You draw a line in the sand. Make a strong offer and he feels he wants the full max and deserves that tell him to earn it. The team is not obligated to lock him in now. To get that deal early he needs to negotiate for it. He can be a restricted free agent. Bottom line is we would be doing him a huge favor by offering a 5 year max money deal now when the most he can get elsewhere is a 4 deal for slightly less annually after next season from someone else.

Its like you think negotiations don't take place.

dude he’s getting the max and he’s getting it this offseason. If we try and negotiate or let him go into his final year without a contract do you have idea the message that’s going to send the league and potential free agents.

bottom line he’s getting the max you need to come to terms with that.

 

[Hoop Head]

dude he’s getting the max and he’s getting it this offseason. If we try and negotiate or let him go into his final year without a contract do you have idea the message that’s going to send the league and potential free agents.

bottom line he’s getting the max you need to come to terms with that.

What message does it send? Their agent has to actually do their job to negotiate for their deal with us before getting it because we're not going to hand over max money to someone who didn't play like they deserved until the playoffs started.

He might get the max, he might not. Its not a foregone conclusion like Luka in Dallas or Trae Young in Atlanta.

Nevermind. I forgot you're one of the people who would get bent out of shape whenever someone pointed out any of Ayton's shortcomings during or after a game. It makes sense now.

 

[DJ Tabooh]

What do you guys think about Siakam being a potential option? If we let Mikal go, Pascal can play the 3 or 4 and is really solid defensively. But I don’t think you can win with him as a number one. Book is definitely still the go to guy but that would be an interesting piece. Also allows us to get taller and longer. Things we struggled with in the Finals. Any thoughts? Not saying this will even happen but curious on anyone’s opinions.

 

[Hoop Head]

What do you guys think about Siakam being a potential option? If we let Mikal go, Pascal can play the 3 or 4 and is really solid defensively. But I don’t think you can win with him as a number one. Book is definitely still the go to guy but that would be an interesting piece. Also allows us to get taller and longer. Things we struggled with in the Finals. Any thoughts? Not saying this will even happen but curious on anyone’s opinions.

I'd love to add Siakam but the price to get him would be steep and if another team like the Warriors are also after him then its likely we couldn't match or beat their offer without giving up far too much.

It would take a minimum of Mikal, Crowder, and Saric just to make salaries work. Plus lots of picks and pick swaps. We can't trade our 1st round pick until 2025 because we owe OKC.

Rumor was Golden State was offering their 2 lotto picks, Wiggins and Wiseman. To match that, or come close, we'd need to part with Ayton, Mikal, and Cam J plus Crowder or Saric for salary purposes. So no, not happening.

I really like Siakam and wish we could add him somehow, it's just not happening.

 

[Finito]

What message does it send? Their agent has to actually do their job to negotiate for their deal with us before getting it because we're not going to hand over max money to someone who didn't play like they deserved until the playoffs started.

He might get the max, he might not. Its not a foregone conclusion like Luka in Dallas or Trae Young in Atlanta.

Nevermind. I forgot you're one of the people who would get bent out of shape whenever someone pointed out any of Ayton's shortcomings during or after a game. It makes sense now.

im very well aware of what he is, but keep thinking all these guys are gonna take less

 

[AzStevenCal]

im very well aware of what he is, but keep thinking all these guys are gonna take less

There are situations where a young up and coming star might take less with incentives that will get him to the max, but I don't think this is one of them. Despite the finals I think Ayton earned a max offer and we'd be foolish to not deliver. Pay him the max unless the coaching staff and front office have serious doubts about his emotional makeup, in which case, trade him. I see no middle ground.

 

[Hoop Head]

im very well aware of what he is, but keep thinking all these guys are gonna take less

Did I say I think he'll take less? No, I said ideally we could get him sign a deal with incentives.

I also presented an example of a more established player signing for less with incentives as an example but you ignored that completely and decided to say no one here would take less for their job.

Its cool though, you got to keep fluffing Ayton up. He deserves the max and any less is an insult!

 

[GatorAZ]

Nothing wrong with playing hardball. Just don’t halt negotiations over a $833,000/year difference…

 

[AzStevenCal]

Nothing wrong with playing hardball. Just don’t halt negotiations over a $833,000/year difference…

As long as you have a firm grasp of the player and the market, yeah. But it can backfire and has before - Gordon Hayward for example and you could probably put Joe Johnson in that group too. Personally though I think this is a no-brainer, unless they have concerns about his head and heart, he's getting a max deal as soon as it's doable.

 

[Mainstreet]

As long as you have a firm grasp of the player and the market, yeah. But it can backfire and has before - Gordon Hayward for example and you could probably put Joe Johnson in that group too. Personally though I think this is a no-brainer, unless they have concerns about his head and heart, he's getting a max deal as soon as it's doable.

I can see both sides of the argument. It's not like Ayton does not have some baggage with the 25 game suspension. It would be nice to wrap him up for five years though which I understand requires a max extension.

 

[GatorAZ]

As long as you have a firm grasp of the player and the market, yeah. But it can backfire and has before - Gordon Hayward for example and you could probably put Joe Johnson in that group too. Personally though I think this is a no-brainer, unless they have concerns about his head and heart, he's getting a max deal as soon as it's doable.

$170 mil isn’t a no brainer to me and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they want to see more. Granted it could backfire if he’s even better and makes all-nba or something but he’s the kind of player that I want to see as much evidence I can before making that decision.

 

[AzStevenCal]

$170 mil isn’t a no brainer to me and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they want to see more. Granted it could backfire if he’s even better and makes all-nba or something but he’s the kind of player that I want to see as much evidence I can before making that decision.

Few players truly earn their first max contract by the time it's signed. IMO Ayton has shown more value in his time here than Booker did prior to his max offer especially when you factor in his value on defense.

I can't think of too many examples where a highly drafted player (that the organization wanted to keep) wasn't given his max deal early, usually not making that offer is a sign that a breakup is imminent. And I'm okay with a breakup if management has real doubts about his drive, his will to win. But AFAIC, his postseason play showed his true value to this team and it's easily worth the max offer IMO.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Add size and more size lol uf suns return next yr they need capable big men off bench to deal with giannis ..

 

[1Sun]

Add size and more size lol uf suns return next yr they need capable big men off bench to deal with giannis ..

And Anthony Davis, and Zion Williamson, and Nikola Jokic, and Rudy Gobert, and Karl-Anthony Towns, and James Wiseman.

Size still matters in the NBA. I hope James Jones has learned his lesson there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And Anthony Davis, and Zion Williamson, and Nikola Jokic, and Rudy Gobert, and Karl-Anthony Towns, and James Wiseman.

Size still matters in the NBA. I hope James Jones has learned his lesson there.

I don't think he had a lesson to learn there. We had a lot of weaknesses, far too many to expect perfect fixes for all of them in one offseason but he at least tried to address all of them. To varying degrees he succeeded in most of them but Saric dropping back to pre-bubble Dario and then getting injured took one of our most glaring weaknesses and magnified it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think he had a lesson to learn there. We had a lot of weaknesses, far too many to expect perfect fixes for all of them in one offseason but he at least tried to address all of them. To varying degrees he succeeded in most of them but Saric dropping back to pre-bubble Dario and then getting injured took one of our most glaring weaknesses and magnified it.

While I agree with what you said, the Suns carried too many guards. They should have carried at least one more big man instead of Moore or Galloway especially with Carter on the roster.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This team is in almost the exact same position as the 2004-5 Nash Suns were. It needs to bring the top 7 back, add a Kurt Thomas and hope that Stix takes the leap Barbosa did in 2005-6, making him at least a rotation player.

other than that, if there’s a move to make for another wing who can actually create for themselves, that would be huge. As is, with Ayton so unreliable to establish his own offense, we are entirely dependent on just three players (Book, CP3 and Payne if he’s back) who can create offense on a regular basis.

 

[Mainstreet]

This team is in almost the exact same position as the 2004-5 Nash Suns were. It needs to bring the top 7 back, add a Kurt Thomas and hope that Stix takes the leap Barbosa did in 2005-6, making him at least a rotation player.

other than that, if there’s a move to make for another wing who can actually create for themselves, that would be huge. As is, with Ayton so unreliable to establish his own offense, we are entirely dependent on just three players (Book, CP3 and Payne if he’s back) who can create offense on a regular basis.

I'm glad you mentioned Stix. Unless he shows something before the start of next season, the Suns can't count on him for depth.

 

[JerkFace]

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[Mainstreet]

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Didn't see this coming. I wonder why.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is a statement about the departure.

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[AzStevenCal]

While I agree with what you said, the Suns carried too many guards. They should have carried at one more big man instead of Moore or Galloway especially with Carter on the roster.

I don't agree that they carried too many guards, at least not in the sense that we didn't have enough bigs because of the number of guards on the roster. We could have dumped one any time we needed to. But we didn't need a big man that wasn't worth his minutes and that was about all that was available to us.

At one time we had hope that Jalen would be playable as a rookie, Saric would come back at bubble strength and Damian Jones would finally live up to his size and physical gifts. If those things had happened we'd have had no need for another big man. But they didn't happen and lacking tradable assets or cap room made it tough to find an acquirable player that could have really helped at the 4 and the 5.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't agree that they carried too many guards, at least not in the sense that we didn't have enough bigs because of the number of guards on the roster. We could have dumped one any time we needed to. But we didn't need a big man that wasn't worth his minutes and that was about all that was available to us.

At one time we had hope that Jalen would be playable as a rookie, Saric would come back at bubble strength and Damian Jones would finally live up to his size and physical gifts. If those things had happened we'd have had no need for another big man. But they didn't happen and lacking tradable assets or cap room made it tough to find an acquirable player that could have really helped at the 4 and the 5.

When filling out the roster the Suns had too many guards. Who is to say they couldn't have found a better big man. Because they missed on Damian Jones does not necessarily mean there wasn't someone better available. We don't know who might have come here.

It became painfully obvious early Jalen Smith wasn't ready to play as a rookie.

When a team goes all in with a major signing like Chris Paul, they need to pull out all the stops. I'm not sure they did.

 

[Finito]

This team is in almost the exact same position as the 2004-5 Nash Suns were. It needs to bring the top 7 back, add a Kurt Thomas and hope that Stix takes the leap Barbosa did in 2005-6, making him at least a rotation player.

other than that, if there’s a move to make for another wing who can actually create for themselves, that would be huge. As is, with Ayton so unreliable to establish his own offense, we are entirely dependent on just three players (Book, CP3 and Payne if he’s back) who can create offense on a regular basis.

ok but who’s that guy and what are you giving up to get him?