Charmin Marvin Harrison Jr Thread

[Chopper0080]

Nabers is really good. A bit of a diva though.

But, I'd rather have him than Marv I think.

They are different types of players. Kyler would have to be better leading his WR with Nabers because Nabers isn't winning a lot of jump balls either.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Yes and no. He will likely improve a bit in contested catches and likely ends up drawing more PI calls. I think he will have a tough time eclipsing 1000 yards with Petzing and Kyler. And TBF, I think a lot of WRs would struggle and most would pout more.

Good analysis

 

[HairZach]

Marv took his first crosser for 23 yards. Was not targeted on that route again the entire game. That is a scheme and QB failure.

He ran several more crossers this game, Kyler didn't throw to him because he was locked up by Gonzales, Marv just couldn't separate. You are severely overestimating how much OCs are doing to get guys like BTJ, Mike Evans, Lamb and Nabers catches. Look at MHJ's routes, they're doing a variety of concepts with him, he doesn't get open. Kyler still throws Marv the ball even when he's not open because Kyler likes to trust his guy to win 50/50s, but Marv doesn't win 50/50s.

Unless Marv gains an unnatural amount of muscle and speed in the off season, I think Marv is going to be the pick to get this staff fired. Even if evidence continues to mount, a ton of people will never accept that Marv is a below average WR based on his name. That will get Petzing fired and Petzing's replacement/Gannon fired; unless Monti is able to sign a real #1 WR.

The reason Kyler throws to Trey more than Marv is because Trey can actually separate and find holes in zone. Whenever Marv gets more than a couple targets it ruins the offense. The only CB matchups Marv has been able to win this season are washed Ramsey, Stephon Gilmore's BACKUP (barely), and Darrell Henderson Jr.

He has 45 catches on 86 targets this year, that is atrocious and it is mainly because we force the ball to him more than he deserves. Kyler needs to stop throwing to Marv in 1 on 1 coverage unless he manages to get wide open, Marv does not make difficult catches.

All the arguments about Marv's failures being on Petzing and Kyler just feel like coping mechanisms, they don't actually make sense.

 

[Chopper0080]

He ran several more crossers this game, Kyler didn't throw to him because he was locked up by Gonzales, Marv just couldn't separate. You are severely overestimating how much OCs are doing to get guys like BTJ, Mike Evans, Lamb and Nabers catches. Look at MHJ's routes, they're doing a variety of concepts with him, he doesn't get open. Kyler still throws Marv the ball even when he's not open because Kyler likes to trust his guy to win 50/50s, but Marv doesn't win 50/50s.

Unless Marv gains an unnatural amount of muscle and speed in the off season, I think Marv is going to be the pick to get this staff fired. Even if evidence continues to mount, a ton of people will never accept that Marv is a below average WR based on his name. That will get Petzing fired and Petzing's replacement/Gannon fired; unless Monti is able to sign a real #1 WR.

The reason Kyler throws to Trey more than Marv is because Trey can actually separate and find holes in zone. Whenever Marv gets more than a couple targets it ruins the offense. The only CB matchups Marv has been able to win this season are washed Ramsey, Stephon Gilmore's BACKUP (barely), and Darrell Henderson Jr.

He has 45 catches on 86 targets this year, that is atrocious and it is mainly because we force the ball to him more than he deserves. Kyler needs to stop throwing to Marv in 1 on 1 coverage unless he manages to get wide open, Marv does not make difficult catches.

All the arguments about Marv's failures being on Petzing and Kyler just feel like coping mechanisms, they don't actually make sense.

Yeah...this is all kinds of wrong but you do you.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

He ran several more crossers this game, Kyler didn't throw to him because he was locked up by Gonzales, Marv just couldn't separate. You are severely overestimating how much OCs are doing to get guys like BTJ, Mike Evans, Lamb and Nabers catches. Look at MHJ's routes, they're doing a variety of concepts with him, he doesn't get open. Kyler still throws Marv the ball even when he's not open because Kyler likes to trust his guy to win 50/50s, but Marv doesn't win 50/50s.

Unless Marv gains an unnatural amount of muscle and speed in the off season, I think Marv is going to be the pick to get this staff fired. Even if evidence continues to mount, a ton of people will never accept that Marv is a below average WR based on his name. That will get Petzing fired and Petzing's replacement/Gannon fired; unless Monti is able to sign a real #1 WR.

The reason Kyler throws to Trey more than Marv is because Trey can actually separate and find holes in zone. Whenever Marv gets more than a couple targets it ruins the offense. The only CB matchups Marv has been able to win this season are washed Ramsey, Stephon Gilmore's BACKUP (barely), and Darrell Henderson Jr.

He has 45 catches on 86 targets this year, that is atrocious and it is mainly because we force the ball to him more than he deserves. Kyler needs to stop throwing to Marv in 1 on 1 coverage unless he manages to get wide open, Marv does not make difficult catches.

All the arguments about Marv's failures being on Petzing and Kyler just feel like coping mechanisms, they don't actually make sense.

I think that the use of the word “atrocious” is very appropriate. Yes, the fanbase wanted MHJ. But the front office and coaches should have done more due diligence. And you are right, this selection may cost them their jobs. Worst Wide Receiver bust since Charles Rogers

 

[Stout]

I know Brit and others wanna put all the blame on Kyler, but Brian Thomas Jr is out here having a much better season with also inconsistent QB play & play-calling. Marv just doesn’t have Thomas’ athleticism & Thomas beats man coverage way easier than Marv.

Marv can still have a better career going forward, but to only believe QB play is what holding Marv all the way just doesn’t fly.

Yeah. He really didn't seem to want it today.

 

[Chopper0080]

They ran MHJ on a bubble screen action...as action to distract from an inside draw. They moved MHJ into the slot, to run a vertical to clear room for Dortch and McBride underneath. None of those are things done to benefit the WR. They are done because the Cardinals are running a dink and dunk offense that has no other viable option at WR that forces a defense to scheme for.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think that the use of the word “atrocious” is very appropriate. Yes, the fanbase wanted MHJ. But the front office and coaches should have done more due diligence. And you are right, this selection may cost them their jobs. Worst Wide Receiver bust since Charles Rogers

This might be dumbest comment I have ever seen on this board. Congrats. You either an idiot or a troll.

MHJ has more yards receiving this year than Rogers had in his entire career.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Yeah...this is all kinds of wrong but you do you.

He presents the stat of 45 catches on 86 targets as a concern. You respond with “all sorts of wrong” and provide no counterpoint. “You do you” Chopper

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree about Kyler. He had no problem getting Hopkins the ball and even though he's a TE in McBride.

Kyler limits how great a player can maybe be (Trey zero TDs) but he's not stopping All Pro players from being very productive. I think Hopkins was averaging almost 100 yards a game in the 2022 disaster year w/Kyler.

So some of it really is on MHJ. There is a lack of dog on these 50/50 balls and lack of demand to the QB/OC to get it.

People were very mad about the limited route tree Hop was running. Maybe that's because those were the (short, outside) targets that Kyler wants?

As an X receiver MHJ is 15+ yards further downfield than Trey is. If Kyler's lost his nerve, he's obviously going to choose Trey more often and more easily.

Hopkins was in a completely different offense, was already a pro bowl veteran WR, and part of a high volume passing offense. A completely different environment.

And a limited route tree that everyone complained about. What Kyler wants is short routes he can complete immediately and blame the WR for if the play ends short of the first down.

And they got beat by 20 with the defense playing soft.

Yeah, how dare they play a top 5 team instead of a bottom 3 one.

 

[SoonerLou]

Hopkins was in a completely different offense, was already a pro bowl veteran WR, and part of a high volume passing offense. A completely different environment.

"I just don’t believe Petzing and Kyler can support a top WR"

So you mean a TOP ROOKIE or YOUNG WR w/Kyler in Petzing's offense isn't supported.

 

[602 Native]

Dude better get in the weight room in the off season and find some attitude.

 

[Chopper0080]

"I just don’t believe Petzing and Kyler can support a top WR"

So you mean a TOP ROOKIE or YOUNG WR w/Kyler in Petzing's offense isn't supported.

Yes...because Petzing calls a low volume pass offense and Kyler is inconsistent. The combination of them can't support a top WR. Kyler could in a different offense. We have seen that. Petzing might be able to with a more consistent QB. We haven't see that. The problem is the combination.

Ok...I didn't read that last sentence initially...but yes.

 

[Chopper0080]

Dude better get in the weight room in the off season and find some attitude.

I don't think the weight room is the biggest deal but he plays like his dad and rookie Larry, and he will need to be more aggressive for sure. Needs to play to his physical frame.

 

[GatorAZ]

i can’t get the Ayton thing out of my head now.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I had that game on one of the screens…the Jags just run BT on so many different routes. Same with Nabers and Chase. Cards are like fade, go, and when Marv crushes the dog or crosser they don’t go back to it.

They did go back to it. The guys calling the game called it out. He was blanketed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Marv took his first crosser for 23 yards. Was not targeted on that route again the entire game. That is a scheme and QB failure.

This isn’t accurate.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i can’t get the Ayton thing out of my head now.

Sorry dude… just got some of those vibes.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kyler is choosing to throw him the ball and it's not accurate.

We're not talking PBUs or drops under pressure. The ball isn't catchable. If Marv isn't open enough for Kyler to be on target then Kyler shouldn't be choosing to throw him the ball.

That assumes someone else is more open and he didn't throw to them.

I'm not entirely sure that's true.

One good thing today is Dortch showed up, although he had the fumble, he actually otherwise had a decent game. It was nice to give us another weapon.

 

[Russ Smith]

For example…vs a top 5 CB, Petzing did nothing to free up Marvin and just kept running him on 1 on 1 routes for 50/50 balls. That’s just not setting up your players to be successful.

I mean it's the NFL. Your #1 WR 1 on 1 you should win more than he won today

 

[Chris_Sanders]

They are different types of players. Kyler would have to be better leading his WR with Nabers because Nabers isn't winning a lot of jump balls either.

Nabors is much better at adjusting to the ball in the air than Harrison and also sealing off the DB.

I would like to say Harrison wins on jump balls but he doesn't.

This was the deepest WR draft in years and you obviously had to draft 2 early based on the WR room and we pissed away picks on non need positions.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Right now the honest truth is he is miscast as a WR1. He just isnt able to win 1 on 1 matchups.

 

[slanidrac16]

I think MHJ has to learn how to find the open spots off his routes. It can be as subtle as one or two yard adjustment.