Chase Edmonds claims “culture issues” with Cardinals???

[ajcardfan]

The Suns culture changed when they finally got rid of an awful GM and their idiot owner stepped back and handed the reins to James Jones and a proven Head Coach.

The Suns turned their culture around by making BIG changes. The Cardinals just doubled down on more of the same after three straight second half collapses to end the year.

I don't disagree with this.

But that doesn't change the fact that at 10-2, everyone was happy with the "culture". Here is a direct quote from JJ Watt before the Texans game:

It’s all about winning for Watt. That’s what he cares about at this stage of his career. He doesn’t care if he lines up outside or inside, and has thrived as an interior pass rusher in recent weeks.

“Whatever they ask of me, I do, whatever it takes to win,” Watt said. “Our team has that mentality, and it’s a big reason we’re successful. Nobody cares who’s making the plays. Nobody cares who’s getting the credit. We have a special group of players. There’s a ton of talent on this team. The thing that’s making this thing go so far is the business-like atmosphere every single day.

“Kliff sets such a great culture. He trusts us to do our jobs. His trusts his coaches to do their jobs. There’s a belief that we come in every day, do our work and then on Sunday, you try to win the game and turn the page. Nobody here is complaining. Nobody here is making excuses. Every single day is work-like. It’s been awesome.”

Cardinals’ Watt Reveals Thoughts on ‘Struggling’ Texans

HOUSTON -- J.J. Watt wouldn’t ordinarily need to study too intensely to gain knowledge about an opponent, especially one he spent a decade building a rich

www.si.com

I can find a lot more if I wanted to, but I don't. It's not that important to me.

Winning cures everything. This is basically a sports axiom. Yes, that is what happened to the Suns and Jones and Williams deserve credit.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I don't disagree with this.

But that doesn't change the fact that at 10-2, everyone was happy with the "culture". Here is a direct quote from JJ Watt before the Texans game:

Cardinals’ Watt Reveals Thoughts on ‘Struggling’ Texans

HOUSTON -- J.J. Watt wouldn’t ordinarily need to study too intensely to gain knowledge about an opponent, especially one he spent a decade building a rich

www.si.com

I can find a lot more if I wanted to, but I don't. It's not that important to me.

AJ- it's not hard to find quotes from winning teams about how happy everyone is and how great everything is. Nobody is arguing that point.

Winning cures everything. This is basically a sports axiom. Yes, that is what happened to the Suns and Jones and Williams deserve credit.

So now you're agreeing that Jones/Williams created the winning culture?

 

[ajcardfan]

AJ- it's not hard to find quotes from winning teams about how happy everyone is and how great everything is. Nobody is arguing that point.

So now you're agreeing that Jones/Williams created the winning culture?

I actually never disagreed with that. I guess I wasn't clear.

No one was praising them until the team started winning. If the team starts losing again, they will be bums. You have been around the Valley long enough to know this is true. Fickleness. From fans and players. That's what I don't take very seriously.

I never posted on what I would've done postseason with the Cardinals.

1. I would have replaced Keim. The drafts have been unacceptable.

2. I would have kept Kliff but not extended him. We have seen his offense can be special. We made the playoffs. One year to correct the Dec swoon or out.

3. Murray, I would have extended immediately after the season. Waiting has really damaged the negotiating leverage of the Cardinals. This is on Keim.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I actually never disagreed with that. I guess I wasn't clear.

No one was praising them until the team started winning. If the team starts losing again, they will be bums. You have been around the Valley long enough to know this is true. Fickleness. From fans and players. That's what I don't take very seriously.

I never posted on what I would've done postseason with the Cardinals.

1. I would have replaced Keim. The drafts have been unacceptable.

2. I would have kept Kliff but not extended him. We have seen his offense can be special. We made the playoffs. One year to correct the Dec swoon or out.

3. Murray, I would have extended immediately after the season. Waiting has really damaged the negotiating leverage of the Cardinals. This is on Keim.

Pretty much exactly how I feel.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I actually never disagreed with that. I guess I wasn't clear.

No one was praising them until the team started winning. If the team starts losing again, they will be bums. You have been around the Valley long enough to know this is true. Fickleness. From fans and players. That's what I don't take very seriously.

I never posted on what I would've done postseason with the Cardinals.

1. I would have replaced Keim. The drafts have been unacceptable.

2. I would have kept Kliff but not extended him. We have seen his offense can be special. We made the playoffs. One year to correct the Dec swoon or out.

3. Murray, I would have extended immediately after the season. Waiting has really damaged the negotiating leverage of the Cardinals. This is on Keim.

I think this is all fair. I’m 50/50 on the extension but pretty torn so I don’t comment on it much one way or another. Reality is he has us backed into a corner and the league is what it is with extensions so he’s going to get it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ive wondered if PP got away with for years and finally got caught...

who knows but remember the circumstances. he was both coming off an injury and had been diagnosed with diabetes. I think it's reasonable to assume he used the PED's to recover from the injury, felt better and just kept using them.

He was a freak athlete coming into the NFL it seems unlike he was a PED guy from the getgo. for bigger guys like Aaron Donald, yeah I believe they've been using since college, for PP seems unlikely.

 

[Krangodnzr]

who knows but remember the circumstances. he was both coming off an injury and had been diagnosed with diabetes. I think it's reasonable to assume he used the PED's to recover from the injury, felt better and just kept using them.

He was a freak athlete coming into the NFL it seems unlike he was a PED guy from the getgo. for bigger guys like Aaron Donald, yeah I believe they've been using since college, for PP seems unlikely.

Honestly I wouldn't doubt if most of the "freak athletes" are PED guys.

I had a company commander who played baseball at Auburn and he said you could tell which guys were PED guys and who weren't. He remembered Alex Rodriguez gaining 30 lbs of muscle over a summer. That's not really possible without PEDs.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think this is all fair. I’m 50/50 on the extension but pretty torn so I don’t comment on it much one way or another. Reality is he has us backed into a corner and the league is what it is with extensions so he’s going to get it.

Wanting to do QB biz like the paradigm hasn't shifted is just foolish. What is the worst that can happen? He could have a bad season (very unlikely) and we'd still be able to trade him, because it is a league that will always be desperate for good QB play.

Alienating our best hope for a franchise QB to save a couple bucks is incredibly stupid. Expecting to dictate to Kyler how this will all go when Kyler has leverage is misguided as well. The Cards could have saved a ton of money by paying him early, and now we're looking at a much more expensive Kyler or the complete unknown of a replacement.

 

[BritCard]

Speaking of Peterson reminds me.

P2 was extended after his 3rd season. They gave him a 5 year deal in 2014. So Keim and Mike have no problem extending players early that have earned it.

But that deal wasn't done until July 30th. Which is about when I would expect Kyler to get done.

 

[Russ Smith]

Honestly I wouldn't doubt if most of the "freak athletes" are PED guys.

I had a company commander who played baseball at Auburn and he said you could tell which guys were PED guys and who weren't. He remembered Alex Rodriguez gaining 30 lbs of muscle over a summer. That's not really possible without PEDs.

yeah but that's the obvious one. A guy like PP in college he was a cut fast athlete. Most guys who use PED's are trying to get bigger and stronger, or lean out. PP at the time didn't fit any of those profiles. the PP in the NFL that got caught fit the profile both as recovering from surgery, and trying to lean out, he'd put on weight as a result of the diabetes you could see he wasn't as fast.

There are freak athletes who I strongly believe do it, LeBron being the obvious one all you have to do is look at his head. In fact I have a friend who's a body builder she says that her coach insists the entire reason LeBron has that beard is "it makes it harder to be sure how much bigger his head is because you can't tell where the chin ends and the beard starts." her coach is a pro body builder. When Bonds was doping his head got enormous.

 

[BritCard]

yeah but that's the obvious one. A guy like PP in college he was a cut fast athlete. Most guys who use PED's are trying to get bigger and stronger, or lean out. PP at the time didn't fit any of those profiles. the PP in the NFL that got caught fit the profile both as recovering from surgery, and trying to lean out, he'd put on weight as a result of the diabetes you could see he wasn't as fast.

There are freak athletes who I strongly believe do it, LeBron being the obvious one all you have to do is look at his head. In fact I have a friend who's a body builder she says that her coach insists the entire reason LeBron has that beard is "it makes it harder to be sure how much bigger his head is because you can't tell where the chin ends and the beard starts." her coach is a pro body builder. When Bonds was doping his head got enormous.

It depends what's PEDs he was taking. There are drugs that achieve all kinds of different things. I don't think we know which he took?

 

[QuebecCard]

Wanting to do QB biz like the paradigm hasn't shifted is just foolish. What is the worst that can happen? He could have a bad season (very unlikely) and we'd still be able to trade him, because it is a league that will always be desperate for good QB play.

Alienating our best hope for a franchise QB to save a couple bucks is incredibly stupid. Expecting to dictate to Kyler how this will all go when Kyler has leverage is misguided as well. The Cards could have saved a ton of money by paying him early, and now we're looking at a much more expensive Kyler or the complete unknown of a replacement.

Reading you on this subject one could think that you actually know what numbers have been exchanged, structure, etc. and how Kyler and Mike B. actually feel about this 'business' process to date.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I take some of it with a grain of salt. Honey Badger? Dudes play fell off a cliff. Team approached him about a pay cut and he balked and was released. Teams do that stuff all of the time. What I think MIGHT be happening is that Keim tries to be cool with the players and treat them like he is boys with them and then he pulls the same moves other GMs do as well. That kind of approach can undermine your position as a leader.

Coming off like we aren't just leader-subordinate, and then coming around and pulling a move that affects your livelihood can piss people off.

I think we are seeing two things at play: 1) The Cardinals historically have a bad reputation. 2) Buddy GM has inappropriate relationships with players.

Agree with all of this. I also think there may be quite a few cases where keim likely said things like “don’t worry we will take care of you” or “we will get to it” or the such and then Nothing happened. Pure conjecture in my part. But that’s how you lose trust.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Reading you on this subject one could think that you actually know what numbers have been exchanged, structure, etc. and how Kyler and Mike B. actually feel about this 'business' process to date.

No offer has been made by the Cards, and Kyler's camp pulled whatever proposal they made. This has been reported.

You honestly think it takes Kreskin to know that Kyler isn't happy?

 

[juza76]

Agree with all of this. I also think there may be quite a few cases where keim likely said things like “don’t worry we will take care of you” or “we will get to it” or the such and then Nothing happened. Pure conjecture in my part. But that’s how you lose trust.

Certainly there is something wrong with Keim and how he approach players when he doesn't want to extend them
I guess he doesn't speak frankly with them
I do expect Chandler Jones saying the same stuff

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't disagree with this.

But that doesn't change the fact that at 10-2, everyone was happy with the "culture". Here is a direct quote from JJ Watt before the Texans game:

Cardinals’ Watt Reveals Thoughts on ‘Struggling’ Texans

HOUSTON -- J.J. Watt wouldn’t ordinarily need to study too intensely to gain knowledge about an opponent, especially one he spent a decade building a rich

www.si.com

I can find a lot more if I wanted to, but I don't. It's not that important to me.

Winning cures everything. This is basically a sports axiom. Yes, that is what happened to the Suns and Jones and Williams deserve credit.

But culture typically doesn’t change in 3 months. If it’s culture that changes the success becomes sustainable. We have yet to see that.

 

[phillycard]

This is a load of crap. Edmonds just joined the freaking Dolphins. A team with 2 winning seasons in 5 and an owner accused of paying to tank.

Talks about a culture of winning then names 4 teams, 3 of which didn't make the playoffs last year and another that has had more losing seasons under Shanny than winning ones and a 39-42 record.

You can count on one hand the number of teams with a "winning culture".

Kyler wanted to be the number 1 pick. To do that your going to be going to a team in bad shape. The team has got better every year since. Traded for players like Hopkins and Hudson.

Brit, you make a VERY valid point there bro. One which I never considered. Money talks is the bottom line. "Win damn games?" Will that be his vaunted Miami Dolphins?? I only give him some credit because Chase has always been a humble guy, not one to mouth off. I believe we do in fact have issues. Years and years of atrophy under the bowtie doesn't just disappear over night. Are we trying, yes? But the perception of our org certainly isn't stellar at the moment.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Agree with all of this. I also think there may be quite a few cases where keim likely said things like “don’t worry we will take care of you” or “we will get to it” or the such and then Nothing happened. Pure conjecture in my part. But that’s how you lose trust.

That's what I think happened to Anquan.

 

[HairZach]

who knows but remember the circumstances. he was both coming off an injury and had been diagnosed with diabetes. I think it's reasonable to assume he used the PED's to recover from the injury, felt better and just kept using them.

He was a freak athlete coming into the NFL it seems unlike he was a PED guy from the getgo. for bigger guys like Aaron Donald, yeah I believe they've been using since college, for PP seems unlikely.

I've heard from steroid guys that steroids can actually cause people to develop diabetes

 

[Russ Smith]

I've heard from steroid guys that steroids can actually cause people to develop diabetes

I can believe that yes.

PP said he was normally between 210 and 220 but he gained weight when the type 2 diabetes really kicked in and that slowed him down. He got all the way down to 210 and Honey Badger said he thought PP was actually too light and it impacted his physical strength. So maybe that's why he used PED's, to get stronger not to lean out?

Or maybe he did both.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He was cheating because he knew he'd dropped off. Players that still feel capable don't feel the need to take PED's.

That is so far off base. PED, in one form or another is rampant in the league. Just a small % get caught.

And, no, I’m not guessing on that statement.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I don't know how much anyone is watching/listening to outside shows...I listen to most of the pairings on NFL Radio on Sirius...and I haven't heard any of them, yet, actually be able to figure out any truth to PP and Edmonds statements against the Cardinals. These are all former players, GM's, coaches, etc. They all pretty much state the Cardinals have been signing and drafting to improve the team...maybe not all work out, but to claim they aren't trying to improve the roster for KM is just not true.

 

[daves]

I just don’t seem to hear the consistency of attacks on other teams as much as I do about the cards.

Seriously? Davante Adams refused to play another game for the Packers. Now Deebo is demanding a trade from the 49ers. Wilson demanded a trade from the Seahawks. Arians said he was lied to and "refired" from the Steelers. Those are just off the top of my head, and those are all teams with "winning cultures".

Then there's OBJ's comments on the Browns, years of players badmouthing the Bengals (until this year), Watson demanding a trade from the Texans (before his legal issues), and pretty much everyone (understandable) blasting the Jaguars.

Then there are players who have their own issues, such as Antonio Brown pooping on the Steelers, Raiders, & Buccaneers, Michael Thomas' issues with the Saints, etc.

I'm sure we could go on and on, and without much effort find bad things players have said about just about every team except the Patriots & the Super Bowl champs.



...dave

 

[Finito]

I've heard from steroid guys that steroids can actually cause people to develop diabetes

Long term abuse yes. They’ll eventually just destroy your body in every way. Look at most of these famous body builders who are old a lot of them are in really bad shape health wise

But I used steroids over the summer now I have diabetes that doesn’t happen.

The thing about steroids is people assume there all the same. Steroids can be given to help diabetes to. Legit doctors prescribe them everyday. There are legit steroids people need that are illegal in the NFL. Not everything is a “PED”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Seriously? Davante Adams refused to play another game for the Packers. Now Deebo is demanding a trade from the 49ers. Wilson demanded a trade from the Seahawks. Arians said he was lied to and "refired" from the Steelers. Those are just off the top of my head, and those are all teams with "winning cultures".

Then there's OBJ's comments on the Browns, years of players badmouthing the Bengals (until this year), Watson demanding a trade from the Texans (before his legal issues), and pretty much everyone (understandable) blasting the Jaguars.

Then there are players who have their own issues, such as Antonio Brown pooping on the Steelers, Raiders, & Buccaneers, Michael Thomas' issues with the Saints, etc.

I'm sure we could go on and on, and without much effort find bad things players have said about just about every team except the Patriots & the Super Bowl champs.



...dave

And you totally missed the point. Not hard to find one player badmouthing their former team. But how many teams can you line up 5 just off the top of your head (pp, Edmonds, badger, Jefferson, boldin)