Chiefs 27 Cardinals 17 Thoughts

[kerouac9]

It has always been one of life's mysteries why when defenses go into prevent mode, defensive linemen are teeing off on the QB ignoring the run and there are 6 DBs in the game, that offenses find it easier to throw the football and Defenses continue to do it. Especially in the NFL where almost no lead is safe.

Because teams are limited by the clock. When you run for 0 yards, you lose the down, you lose the yardage, but you are also going to lose 20-30 seconds of game time moving on to the next down. If you throw an incomplete pass, then you're going to lose the down and the yardage, but the most important resource in the game at that point--the time you have left to get back into it--remains conserved.

Also, for the teams we're talking about, I'm not sure that running Marcel Shipp and Damian Anderson into the line over and over again is going to make a difference. A moderately successful pass play is going to get you double the yards of a moderately successful run play, and will be more likely to get you a new set of downs.

 

[crisper57]

Because teams are limited by the clock. When you run for 0 yards, you lose the down, you lose the yardage, but you are also going to lose 20-30 seconds of game time moving on to the next down. If you throw an incomplete pass, then you're going to lose the down and the yardage, but the most important resource in the game at that point--the time you have left to get back into it--remains conserved.

Also, for the teams we're talking about, I'm not sure that running Marcel Shipp and Damian Anderson into the line over and over again is going to make a difference. A moderately successful pass play is going to get you double the yards of a moderately successful run play, and will be more likely to get you a new set of downs.

A blast from the past! I loved that guy! Speaking of which, does anyone else thing LSH might be our Shipp this year? He's great, and we love him, but is there room in the RB Corp for him to make the team? Maybe its too early to have that conversation, but in the near future, I worry that this little gamer will be out of a job.

 

[Russ Smith]

It has always been one of life's mysteries why when defenses go into prevent mode, defensive linemen are teeing off on the QB ignoring the run and there are 6 DBs in the game, that offenses find it easier to throw the football and Defenses continue to do it. Especially in the NFL where almost no lead is safe.

I think part of it is mental. QB's know their performance won't lose the game because they're already behind, so they play looser?

I made that comment repeatedly on Jake early in his career, he'd throw balls in the 2nd halves of games he never threw in the first half. not just jump balls but the guy is open but it's a tight window. In the first half he'd dump that off to Centers, in the 2nd half he threw it.

 

[MadCardDisease]

OFFENSE

TE:

Steve Skelton has been the most active and visible TE in the games thus far.

Todd Heap---the most invisible.

Jim Dray had a nice catch in the red zone and a very good block on one running play.

Martell Webb threw some good blocks.

WR

It's time for Michael Floyd to step up---he doesn't look ball hungry the way LaRon Byrd is, for example. His effort to tackle on STs was a disgrace. Yes, he throws good blocks downfield which is great---but other than that, you would never know this guy was taken #10 in the draft...not in effort and not in skill level.

What was tough to watch was seeing Melvin Ingram wreak havoc on Aaron Rodgers two nights ago. He looks like a stud. Floyd thus far looks like a first round dud.

Heap and Floyd were two of players who I keyed on specifically. I watched them as best as possible whenever they were in.

Unfortunetly I left my notes at home so I can't get into specifics. However what really stood out to me with both of these players was their blocking.

Heap is a much better blocker than I expected. I always assumed that he was just a pass catching TE. He isn't a drive blocker but he knows how to get into position and wall off defenders. He had no problem blocking DEs or LBs.

Michael Floyd also was really getting into the downfield blocking. DB's sturggle to get off of Michaels blocks because of his size and strength. I'll give you his tackle on special teams was anything but special. Although I'm not sure how he can "be ball hungry" or even what that means.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Just because someone looks good, doesn't mean they are a player. Remember Stephen Williams?

Stephen Williams NEVER looked good. He was a fabrication of this board where someone saw something in Flagstaff and maybe there was a marginally positive statement made by the team, and it spread like a virus through this board that he was the "talk of camp".

If anybody actually watched him try to catch (while having their rose colored glasses removed), they would have seen a guy with no chance. After reading what I read and then watching him in preseason games, that was a big disappointment.

 

[JeffGollin]

Stephen Williams NEVER looked good. He was a fabrication of this board where someone saw something in Flagstaff and maybe there was a marginally positive statement made by the team, and it spread like a virus through this board that he was the "talk of camp".

If anybody actually watched him try to catch (while having their rose colored glasses removed), they would have seen a guy with no chance. After reading what I read and then watching him in preseason games, that was a big disappointment.

I thought Williams looked good as a rookie. So sue me.

 

[Duckjake]

Because teams are limited by the clock. When you run for 0 yards, you lose the down, you lose the yardage, but you are also going to lose 20-30 seconds of game time moving on to the next down. If you throw an incomplete pass, then you're going to lose the down and the yardage, but the most important resource in the game at that point--the time you have left to get back into it--remains conserved.

Also, for the teams we're talking about, I'm not sure that running Marcel Shipp and Damian Anderson into the line over and over again is going to make a difference. A moderately successful pass play is going to get you double the yards of a moderately successful run play, and will be more likely to get you a new set of downs.

None of that explains how a Dline that is only focused on rushing the passer and 6 DBs can't stop teams and why coaches keep doing it. Jeez how many leads did we blow or almost blow in 2009 because we couldn't play pass defense or run the ball to run the clock?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

None of that explains how a Dline that is only focused on rushing the passer and 6 DBs can't stop teams and why coaches keep doing it. Jeez how many leads did we blow or almost blow in 2009 because we couldn't play pass defense or run the ball to run the clock?

Yeah, I have no idea where he was going with that answer.

Perhaps the most simple answer is that teams/players lose focus with a lead, and don't play with the same desperation involved with a close game/deficit. I've certainly heard that from plenty of teams and sports throughout the years.

You'd figure it would be the "3rd and obvious" advantage, and teams would be able to control the game defensively from then out, but for whatever reason, large deficits are often overcome.

 

[kerouac9]

None of that explains how a Dline that is only focused on rushing the passer and 6 DBs can't stop teams and why coaches keep doing it. Jeez how many leads did we blow or almost blow in 2009 because we couldn't play pass defense or run the ball to run the clock?

I was confused about the perspective you were coming from. I would think that would be the perfect opportunity to run the football for the offense. You were asking from the defensive perspective.

Defenses largely do stop it, which is why you don't see a ton of comebacks from 17-point deficits in the NFL. The QB eventually throws a pick, or gets sacked and fumbles, or the receiver drops an important pass on third-and-12. No one remembers when prevent doesn't work.

Prevent doesn't prevent the opposing offense from gaining yardage, or even from gaining first downs. Prevent generally just forces the opposition to complete six-yard pass after six-yard pass. That's not easy to do in the NFL.

I'd also add that in prevent situations defenders aren't all-out rushing the passer much of the time. The outside guys are generally trying to prevent escape lanes so that the tackles can collapse the pocket.

 

[schutd]

Footballs a lot more fun when youre not a stat geek. Anquan catch ball. Me like Anquan. Cardinals my favorite. Break heart much. Leenart grades out.... naw. Cant go there.

 

[WildBB]

Footballs a lot more fun when youre not a stat geek. Anquan catch ball. Me like Anquan. Cardinals my favorite. Break heart much. Leenart grades out.... naw. Cant go there.

Most things are just obvious. FB geeks tend to complicate them. But there in lye's the fun and the discussions.

Kolb = average starter. Skelton average with slight upside for intangibles.
OL = average on a good day.
RB = good but possible injury concerns
WR = stud and 3/4 pieces still pretty young
TE = average with potential
DL = a strength
LB = stud and some throw ins
CB = stud and ? potential
S = average veterans on the down sides-inconsistent

 

[82CardsGrad]

Footballs a lot more fun when youre not a stat geek. Anquan catch ball. Me like Anquan. Cardinals my favorite. Break heart much. Leenart grades out.... naw. Cant go there.

 

[schutd]

Sometimes I feel totally stupid when I read this board, and other times I feel relieved that I dont dig in like most of you. I get to enjoy the game, shut er down at the end of Sunday and then come here, sit back and watch the fireworks. WildBB, thats about it in a nutshell as far as my analysis of the game goes. Probably why I dont post much in this forum...

 

[Duckjake]

Sometimes I feel totally stupid when I read this board, and other times I feel relieved that I dont dig in like most of you. I get to enjoy the game, shut er down at the end of Sunday and then come here, sit back and watch the fireworks. WildBB, thats about it in a nutshell as far as my analysis of the game goes. Probably why I dont post much in this forum...

There are some people who are content with the answer to "how do you win" being "score more points than the other team". Others like to get into how and why you score more points than the other team. Nothing wrong with either one.

A lot of the statistical analysis and film review discussion comes from someone saying so and so was horrible or great and others disagreeing and posting stats or results of film review to back their take. That and getting to commiserate with other long suffering Cards fans and that there are some really great original jokes posted are what make this board great.

Oh yeah and the best part is the Jacka**es that you see on so many other internet boards aren't tolerated here. Except for me of course.

 

[JeffGollin]

Some liken stats to a lamp- post: Good if you use it for illumination. Not so cool if its main use is to prop up drunks...

 

[daves]

How many "clutch" first downs can there be when you're down 28-7 in the first quarter?

Like that Seattle game: 8 catches, 62 yards in a game that we lost 38-0. Awesome?

No major disagreement with your main point - that Boldin was a "diamond in a field of turd" whose performances were wasted on a craptacular team - but just had to counter your claim that "He got fat on a bunch of five-yard dumpoffs on third-and-15 that he got 11 yards on the play." The fact is, with incredible consistency, even though the TEAM wasn't in "clutch" situations, Boldin's performance WAS clutch in that he had an extremely high success rate converting 3rd down situations into 1st downs and TDs, often through herculean effort on his part.

...dave

 

[kerouac9]

No major disagreement with your main point - that Boldin was a "diamond in a field of turd" whose performances were wasted on a craptacular team - but just had to counter your claim that "He got fat on a bunch of five-yard dumpoffs on third-and-15 that he got 11 yards on the play." The fact is, with incredible consistency, even though the TEAM wasn't in "clutch" situations, Boldin's performance WAS clutch in that he had an extremely high success rate converting 3rd down situations into 1st downs and TDs, often through herculean effort on his part.

...dave

Fair enough. I was remembering Larry Centers' career with Jake Plummer.